Is "Race Realism" a message of love or hate?
YouTube just banned Jared Taylor of American Renaissance and Stephen Molyneux (along with less nuanced channels of Richard Spencer and David Duke) for violating their rules on "hate" which includes "alleging that a group is superior in order to justify discrimination".
These channels promote "Race Realism" - the position that the difference in social and economic success between ancestral population groups (aka "races" ) is due to a substantial degree to immutable genetic differences and its effect on culture. They also maintain that while direct racism still occurs, it is a small component to why there are differences in outcomes.
Note: I assume most here agree that YouTube banning these channels is very bad on a 1st Amendment/Free Speech basis. Feel free to debate or discuss ramifications below.
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49 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Race realism when juxtaposed with genetic variation and equal opportunity is something that needs to be downplayed. Thomas Sowell is proof that black genius can exist and the opportunity for many more Thomas Sowells should be encouraged.
It is only an issue because race is a way bigger issue than it deserves thanks to identity politics. The root problem is the state of the family, especially black families, solving that will help solve more problems than race realism studies. And I mean single parent households.
CookieMonster
Level 8
June 30, 2020
9
Bingo. Address the number of fatherless families and the low value placed on education first. I guarantee you black communities will see a huge change. You'll also see more political balance in black communities.
@GTShaw Maybe you should read my post again and tell me where I said anything about Thomas Sowell and whether or not he invalidates racism.
If you want to read something into a post, find someone else's.
@GTShaw
Thats not what I am implying. What I am saying is pushing race realism is promoting a type of determinism with its own inherent problems like "The racism of low expectations".
@GTShaw
You are comparing mean differences and ignoring variance within groups. Equal oppertunity would allow those within a group with a lower mean but at the top end of the distribution to excel, treating them like the average or the mean number would be the racism of low expectations. Your argument is misconcieved.
@GTShaw I’d love to see your scientific evidence regarding the 99 out of 100 blacks comment, just because race realism is based on empirical study. If race realism is real—where is the empirical evidence?
@GTShaw Aw, man...you don't know me, so let me assure I'm not for one second willing to obscure or excuse black violence. My point is simply this....I'm tired of the Left making excuses for the black community. Their pandering has done nothing to address the two key problems that, in my opinion, are hurting blacks....fatherless families and lack of education. Until those problems are addressed, the cycle will continue.
@GTShaw
Thats what we do anyway, its called equal oppertunitty for all.
@GTShaw there you go, reading stuff into my post again. Where did I say blacks should live the way we do in order to have value?
Look, you're big on genetics. I get that, and that's cool. I don't have any interest in debating anyone on the role genetics may or may not play because it's just not my thing. My interest is in countering the utter BS that it's being shoved in every one of our orifices by the Left, which relentlessly pushes the narrative that whites are responsible for everything plaguing the black community, and that leftist policies are the only hope blacks have for a better tomorrow.
@GTShaw
Our society is not organised with the assumption of white averages, and an example of what you mean may help. Its a free for all with people hopefully finding their level on merit, of course wealth and other factors play there part.
@GTShaw All I want to point out is a stock photo of a bell curve isn’t showing any empirical evidence of one race’s intelligence over another. I see the example you’re trying to make with it, but I could also say that the photo represents the amount of blonde haired people who are more intelligent than brown haired people or whatever. I still haven’t seen any concrete empirical evidence for race realism. The issue I take with calling one race more intelligent than another is that people won’t look at that statement empirically, rather they will look at it emotionally and who is going to support somebody who tells them that statistically they are less smart than somebody else. I feel in the wrong mindset, knowledge like that can make one believe they are “better” than the other.... like Hitler saw Jews as subhuman and of a “lesser” race, which only created more violence. If you are smarter than somebody else, that does not make you “better” in any way. There are very intelligent people as there are less intelligent people, but simply saying that this race of humans have more problems because they are less intelligent will, imo create more problems than solve them.
@GTShaw
What you are referencing is culture not IQ.
@GTShaw I was just asking for you specifically to show me evidence that’s all. I believe its out there, I just want to see what you have specifically seen since you seem to be for it.
I'm gonna go with ALL race hustling BS as being flavors of Marxism. Just like other groupism--feminism, for example, being Marxism with panties on.
Marxism has killed more people in a century and a half than ANY OTHER ISM.
curvycom
Level 7
June 30, 2020
3
It is mostly or completely irrelevant what the "average" of a race is. It is only significant what individuals are. Statistics are interesting, but There are for example, so few 1 in a million geniuses or even 1 in a billion geniuses that these offer no statistics regarding race.
Genius is smothered in third world countries where there are little or no opportunities to foster it--also something to consider.
Notwithstanding my first comment, I should make it clear that I stand against censorship of any kind. The solution to bad ideas and/or finding better or more clear ideas, is discussion not banning
@GTShaw I agree. And I don't deny differences in averages. It's just that taking cases one on one as individuals yields more red pilled people of all groups.
@GTShaw
>A largely mentally population is going to be extremely violent
Low IQ isn't what causes crime though; there are plenty of Asian nations with low average IQs but nowhere near the crime rate of blacks. Most criminals are not very bright but it also has to do with testosterone and lack of impulse control.
@GTShaw This is an gross exaggeration of real numbers. You help globalists and Marxists by fostering the separation they also foster. Do you also believe in socialism for white people only? I tend to find leftist ideas brewing in separatist type circles.
Groupism = Marxism That's all there is to it.
@GTShaw Thank you very much for clarifying your position(s)
I find this site very interesting. People who disagree wildly seem to have civil discussions.
Do you have any theories as to how the magic, so to speak, happens here? ya don't see it much elsewhere on the internet.
@GTShaw Where such "safety nets" do not differ from so called Marxist ones, is that they must be implemented by force. A net is also something one gets caught in. I have personal experience in this, I'm sorry to say. That church groups providing voluntary aid to members (and non-members, as my church does) is one thing, government compulsion is quite another no matter how benevolent it may intend to be. This is true regardless of who the intended beneficiaries are intended to be.
I am suspicious of all such schemes, regardless of the populations or groups involved. They ruin more lives then they save.
On the other hand, I can BUY insurance which is a form of private averaging (risk management, to me falls short of true "collectivization) Or I can accept help from a church or charity when I am in need. At least, I can be secure in the knowledge that when I am no longer fallen on hard times, that I can pay my aid back. Whereas with government aid, it must be paid back via force. And inefficiently, at that. Means tested redistribution is maybe 5-10% efficient--if even that.
It's stultifying, emotionally crippling, and who knows how many creative and brilliant people have crumbled before such systems and have not benefited all of our lives as a result?
@GTShaw vanilla societies, such as euro-socialists who until fairly recently had a very white nordic population still suffered under the inefficiency of redistributionism. I believe that that way lies bankruptcy. Make society as homogeneous as you want, it still collapses under the weight of collectivism, tyranny and moral bankruptism.
However I do appreciate your comments. I have always wondered how and why race collectivists and/or race nationalists embrace socialism. Now, at least,I understand why you think what you think.
@GTShaw and even the most stable and viable of the euro socialist countries prior to their influx of admittedly not-like-minded unwashed masses, still could not survive properly without quite a lot of privation.
Keep in mind also, that these countries were not even truly independent. None of them, including Britain, had to undertake their own defense. They all had US for that (pun intended) That's another 30% of GDP that they didn't have to spend preferring a paltry defense budget and leaching, as do all socialists, off of more powerful entities.
In any case, at least I understand why white separatists and other such people don't eschew socialism. I have wondered this for a long time.
I admit, my vision of a homogeneous society includes values, rather than class or race, that being said, I would gladly live in any such society AS LONG AND UNTIL it embraces any form of collectivism.
I can't breathe under it. I can barely stand what little we have in my country. So much so, that I am thinking of packing up my whole life and heading for Hungary where, at least for now, Western values are embraced. And (hopefully) SJWs disappear mysteriously in the night as the cancer they are.
@Thaw I'm not living in a fantasy, really. I just prefer a lighter hand on the whip when it comes to collectivism. Police, Fire, Emergency, Military, etc. I know I, at least, am better off when this kind of thing is kept to a minimum. Hong Kong had a straight 10% tax for years until the brittish lease ran out, but during that time, it flourished. It had everything it needed with a mere 10%
That seems reasonable. God asks no more than this, we should follow His example : )
@Thaw but once again, I appreciate your views. I have, as I have stated elsewhere in this thread, always wondered where all the collectivism came from in White (or even other color) nationalism. I believe I understand your perspectives much better. For that I am grateful.
But yes. I prefer a light hand on the whip, and not such a heavy yoke, and no blinders--take whichever metaphor : ) that's a personal thing.
Where the scope of collectivism is heavy I tend to side step it with trickery, manipulation and subversion whenever I can. This is so I can flourish where the whip is harsh and the yoke is heavy.. The trouble is that not everyone is as clever or wily in that way. And I would prefer not to have to do such things, but they are necessary under a heavy yoke.
It's a white supremacist pseudoscience that historically has been used to justify ethnic cleansing, colonialism, and the denial of full citizenship to certain groups.
WilyRickWiles
Level 8
June 30, 2020
4
@ForeverFree76 Ask yourself, who is the project of "race realism" serving?
@ForeverFree76 Exactly. Asians are now the second target (next to whites) of the far left cult because Asians broke their racism and white privilege narrative. Asians have replaced whites as the top racial income group in recent years. Asian immigrants know this is NOT a racist country and you can achieve your American dreams if you work hard and take responsibility. Blaming others for your own failures is a privilege that some people are encouraged to exert.
It's called tokenism.
@ForeverFree76 Are we still talking about "race realism?"
@dd54 Here's some more: words have meaning.
@dd54 I'm a free speech absolutist, so don't talk to me. These platforms can do what they want. If centralization makes that problematic, they need to be broken up and decentralized.
The fact that you apply this specifically to whites rather than every group throughout all of history tells me you're just another anti-white racist.
@Flagherty How is "every group throughout all of history" responsible for the (white supremacist) eugenics movement of the 20th century, for which "race realism" is a euphemism?
OK, rabbi.
I would like everyone to read the original comment as well as the one immediately previous to this and notice how it slithers between its words and changes subjects with no apparent memory of its previous statements.
It transposes words and meanings instinctively as a snake sheds its skin. This is the nature of the enemy. They do not speak honestly and have no interest in discourse. They only seek to spread confusion and discord.
Cast such creatures aside and stride forward confidently, letting their protestations fall on deaf ears. We're only interested in those who can discern truth from lies whe exposed to the light. Their number is enough to build our future.
There is no race based set of characteristics beyond how easily some of us burn in the sun. Everything else is culture and, yes, culture is real. There are national cultures, ethnic cultures, religious cultures, sub cultures, etc.
Regardless I am pro free speech. Let someone's argument fail or rise on its own merits. Don't stifle it--especially when you allow people to say the same thing but from an afro-centric perspective. I have had so many videos put in my feed this week by Youtube that hurt and appalled me for their outright mean-spiritedness and general misinformation.
I actually got a video about why white people need to be erased. Be consistent or be a hypocrite.
ThomasinaPaine
Level 7
June 30, 2020
1
Sickle cell anemia, lactose intolerance, alcohol tolerance, sexual characteristics, IQ and numerous other ethnic differences would suggest you need to study how adaptation works.
The significance of those differences is open to debate not the differences themselves.
"SCD occurs among about 1 out of every 365 Black or African-American births. SCD occurs among about 1 out of every 16,300 Hispanic-American births. About 1 in 13 Black or African-American babies is born with sickle cell trait (SCT)."
I don't know what your point is. Although it can be carried by people not of African descent it is more common in that group. What that means is resistance to malaria was more advantage for different groups. That is the nature of natural selection. Adaptations arise out of selection in specific environments.
@wolfhnd And RH is found in a tiny enclave of white people in Basque and also in other places far from Basque. All of this can be attributed to proximity and paternity rather than "race".
Did I use the word race. Stop reading people's minds.
@wolfhnd The subject is "race realism". And I'll refrain from using the snippy comment my own mind tried to coax me to use. I'll just say that if you don't want to discuss "race realism" then don't but my comments were addressing the subject of the query.
The title may be race realism but it is such a poorly defined term that I seldom use it.
Be as snippy as you like.
One problem is the practice of categorizing people by "race" or "ethnicity" in the first place. There is far more variation within a particular group than there is across groups. If we are to incorporate the practice of recognizing individual sovereignty, we have to overcome the (like biological) propensity to categorize people like this in the first place. Don't judge a book by its cover.
Another problem is that on a cultural level, at the level of child-rearing, we can't really do much to increase any individual's intelligence, but we sure can hamper it, both psychologically and physiologically. All those kids in Flint, Michigan, who were drinking lead-poisoned city water, that has nothing to do with their genetics.
Mostly, I think the big problem with "race realism" is that it's terribly lazy. It's trying to develop a heuristic for evaluating people at the group level, the tribal level. Sorry, no. To know someone takes time, it takes developing a personal relationship. What goes into making a human being the way the are is terribly complicated. It's not just genetics, it's not just culture, it's not just biological development influenced by environment, and there's an awful lot of random chance thrown in there just for good measure.
We need to grow the hell up.
SophiaPistis
Level 5
June 30, 2020
3
Bravo! It doesn't matter what the "averages" are. There are exceptional individuals in all population and other groups no matter how you try to divide them.
Well done. Thank you.
@Admin It's always popular to assume a univariate cause. It takes a lot of work to untangle the mess of biology, environment, child rearing, and the wide variety of sociological factors that contribute to those averages. And even if the mess were to be untangled, there would be no easy solution to implement politically.
Anyone who argues that there's a singular cause is trying to sell something. The oppressor/oppressed argument is used to stoke resentment and revolution. The "it's all biological" crowd are selling a kind of determinism to preserve the status quo.
It was an evil and cowardly act of Google to ban these speakers from YouTube and kowtow to the evil radical left cult. Google used to have "don't be evil" as their motto but they might have well use "side with evil" as their new motto. Censorship in this country is getting as bad as that of an authoritarian socialist/communist regime. Big tech, schools, mainstream media etc have all become tools of the evil new party/cult/religion of the far left to silence us who have differing views.
"First they came for...
Then they came for..."
They are silencing us one by one and we need to fight back before there's nobody and no platform that allows our voices.
Naomimi
Level 7
June 30, 2020
1
Every race, every nation, every human being alive today is the result of human migration, wars, interbreeding, and genetic blending. We are one race, with a diversity of genetics that determines our epidermal traits. The genetic variants which affect these traits are caused by mutations which influence light and dark skin, and have been around since before the origin of modern humans. To claim that one skin tone is superior, is to claim that this mutation has created a genetically superior race, and in theory would mean the other races are not equipped to withstand natural selection. Which has never been the case. This is nothing more than a fallacy created to divide and separate people, based on hate and ignorance.
DeplorableToo
Level 7
June 30, 2020
1
It appears that 15% of the difference in school performance can now be predicted using polygenetic scores. It also appears that the frequency of these markers vary among ancestral population groups. Since heritability of IQ is about 0.8 (see [en.wikipedia.org] ), this suggests that variation is not just skin deep. The key question is what to do with this knowledge? Should it be banned from Youtube as these channels were promoting it?
@Admin a high IQ does not equate to success. Many people with extremely high IQs are socially awkward. Many people with average IQs are successful.
@DeplorableToo You're correct, it does not equate to success but it is correlated for high income professions along with grit/etc. Individuals vary considerably and therefore only averages are comparable.
@Admin Can we, (though) judge the success rates of races by leaving out the moral and familial influences within those races. If you were to ask Ruby Payne why children of poverty do not succeed, you would get a different answer altogether. Her books (adored by the liberal education system in America), claim that these children are exposed to a different mindset from birth. There is a different cultural view on education and what defines success within their circles. We may view success as owning a profitable, white-collar business, while they may view success as how many dealers they have working the streets, or how many city blocks they've tagged as their gang property.
Social media Gestapo will continue getting worse. That's why people joining Parler.
Lt-JW
Level 8
June 30, 2020
2
@Jaster_Mereel I'm a Parler moderator myself and only block accounts that belong to infiltrate who post nudity, obscenity... in order to damage the platform's reputation. I have never blocked a polite courteous opposition comment
@Jaster_Mereel no worries mate. I'm glad there communities such as IDW where we can fact check these stuff
I fairly familiar with the studies into IQ that Molyneux references, while there were many bogus studies back in that day that were brought on by a lot of racism, there are plenty of modern studies that show that IQ does differ by race, country, culture, etc and so forth, and it has less to do with race and more to do with everything else. The interesting thing is those studies showed that if you take someone from Africa with a 75 IQ, in one single generation living in a western country, their children have an average 10 points higher than their parents, and it increases every generation if nurtured. That's great news and proves that most's IQ can be improved with education, healthy diet and the right environment . We all have different IQ's are due to our environment and our evolutionary tract. If a tribal people have literally done the same thing for thousands of years, your brain adjusts to needs it isn't challenged in new ways when one is growing up. In more complicated societies, people are raised with a need to figure out complex situations that are new all the time, which would naturally help. Anthropology 101. It doesn't make them stupid, it probably means their brain is more focused on survival and function as opposed to the exercises that we all know increases intelligence: reading, puzzles, math, etc. We also know there are geniuses of every gender and race. I think cultural evolution is a real thing and not something to ignore.
There's also a study that shows that women are more often of average intelligence, while men are more have a very high IQ or a very low IQ. I suspect that is because men are required to be more intelligent for millions of years to protect the family. I accept this fact, even though I'm a woman. Not just because I trust the study, but because I know lots of men and woman and it adds up. I also suspect that men generally start out very intelligent, but then inevitably get brain damage growing up because boys will be boys. People highly underestimate the level of brain damage that some kids and teens subject themselves through sports and just having fun, and I bet some cultures have more brain injuries than others from regular activities. I feel like America has lost a little bit of IQ just from football. I'm a girl and i don't think these facts are sexist. They're just facts. Of course that does not mean that there are no hyper intelligent women or minorities, it just means it's less likely, for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with bigotry, just biology and history.
the7tower7falls
Level 2
July 1, 2020
1
This is basically what I think also.
As to beauty, mentioned by @SocialDarwin... that... is in the eye of the beholder. I find Africans from certain regions extremely attractive. Both the men and the women--for different reasons. My wife, while not African, is from the British Isles, however, her Welsh ancestry gives her many features in common, both facial and head shape--profile, in particular--as well as body shape and type,--for example, a beautifully extreme waist-to-hip ratio--as well as extremely high femaleness in her hormones, etc., with many African women.
On a lighter note: Sure. Men are on the extremes. But hey, we need more geniuses in order to understand women, who are strange and mysterious creatures.
@curvycom
I feel whites are beautiful because I’m white and that’s natural instinct. I’m sure other races are sexually attracted to their own race. Science has shown this instinct. But that has nothing to do with HATE or equality in work, etc
I think we should be able to be truly honest without anger
@SocialDarwin I agree. I was merely pointing out that at least some people--me, for example, are attracted more to "Femaleness" than to racial features in particular. Another part of the Bell Curvy thing is Black guys being more male, and Black Girls Being more Female on average.
But still, they are only averages. You may find more "golden ratio" proportions in other races than the European ones, but you find extremes of femaleness and maleness in all races.
I guess that's what I like. Men are men, women are women--all is right with the world.
On an aside, we often get very attractive people when we mix up the genes a little. I like it when people are nice looking. It's eye candy : ) I know that beauty and attractiveness is not everything. But... it is a thing... nice looking people make the whole world more nice looking.
Race realism is a valid conversation, but i think that at the moment it plays into the whole identity politics trap. If "they" (mainstream agenda drivin media) can keep you talking about race, then other more pressing issues get pushed to the side. Things like others have mentioned, like the amount of single parent homes, which contributes to poor education and disfunctional family dynamic, or the lack of gainful employment for untrained workers (production jobs, farm hand jobs, entry level construction jobs) which have been exported and the job pool deliberately diluted by exploited migrants to help keep costs down for our corporate overlords, under the banner of humanitarianism.
The establishment globalist power elite cannot get drawn into a debate over policy because they will lose every time, they cannot even identify as globalist elites, they have no choice but to hi-jack a popular movement like the "left" and much like a parasite devour it from the inside, while useing the husk of its former self as a puppet. Anyone remember when the left stood for personal liberty? Now the left doesn't support the 1st or second amendment, and some are calling for socialism. Most of them don't realize they already live in a quasi socialist country as it is. The parasite has convinced the host to give up its guns, its free speech, and more tax money in pursuit of a utopia that is undefined and out of sight. The host is dieing, and these riots and desperate rallies around shit candidates are its death throws.
BeerMe420
Level 5
June 30, 2020
3
The most dangerous animal is often a wounded one. Trump was the first time since Eisenhower that anyone pushed back on the corporatists.
@wolfhnd While I don't LIKE a lot about Trump, I LOVE his WILD card instant abrupt ways.
The man of the hour. I don't LIKE abusive, but under this political arena I LOVE his abusiveness. It's driving the left MAD. Their mealy mouthed lying smiles SLIP.
What do you think will happen next?
@2FollowHim Yeah, he cracks me up all the time, dude. I'm ashamed to say I didn't vote for him in 2016 (or Hillary eather) But I--actually everyone in my household--is definitely voting for him this time.
Yes, he's not perfect, unless you consider his entertainment value. He IS perfectly awesome though!
They're not immutable characteristics. Multiple studies have shown this. For example, during WW2, US soldiers impregnated many women in Germany, and many of thise soldiers were black. The black babies growing up in Germany had an average iq equal to the rest of Germany. Whereas, in the US, black babies growing up at the same time period had a lower iq than white Americans. The difference being that in Germany they grew up in German culture, and in the US, they grew up surrounded by black culture.
Its culture that creates the differences.
Funkston
Level 3
June 30, 2020
0
I'm not going to engage in this topic past this post. It's pointless.
What people are missing is that culture alters genetics. That is how you you get lactose tolerance in some ethnicities and not others.
What you are saying is so absurd it shouldn't need to be argued against. It's like saying all breeds of dogs are the same.
The details are unimportant but intelligence like any other trait is heritable. The question is if it can be accurately measured and if it varies by ethnicity. I can't answer the first question but the answer to the second question is obvious. Should anyone care? I don't but I do care about the anti science tone the arguments tend to take.
Thanks for the interesting comment. How do you know that this disproves the position that there are differences in ancestral groups? Might this suggest that German culture results in higher IQ than black culture? If so, might we want to incorporate more German culture here? I do like bratwurst 
Would the biracial kids in Germany having a higher IQ than black kids in the US say more about culture or genetics? (Assuming that IQ of white Germans and Americans is similar?)
@Admin the key point is regarding the word "immutable" which means unchangeable. There are clear differences between ethnic groups, but are differences permanent and unchangeable, or do they change according to culture. The research suggests to me that culture is a bigger factor than genetics. Like one comment above says, culture afrects genetics, so for example, if one culture abuses drugs and alcohol heavily, their children will be born with defects, and the group as a whole will suffer. However, if the culture changes, it doesn't take long for the genetics to improve as well.
Presenting clear facts about genetically distinct groups is HATE!
The Left claims to want equality. What they really mean is that everyone should be THE SAME, and any un-equal outcomes can only be due to oppression and "cheating" by the more successful.
Equality under the law? Absolutely
A "level playing field" (equal opportunity)? Sure
Identical outcomes? Not possible, even within a distinct genetic group, much less between groups.
Tycho
Level 7
June 30, 2020
3
Are you suggesting that class differences occur in monocultural societies? Perhaps that should be banned?
@Admin Would you reference groups like Huttarites or Mennonites? They have very strict codes within their social groups but differ from colony to colony. It seems to be in humanity's nature to express individualism no matter who, what, or where.
I really don't think it's all that important or interesting a question. The far more important and interesting issue is pointed out in a post below: whether based on race or ethnicity or NOT, the bell curves of intelligence. personality, and social behaviors are as real as those of upper-body strength, physical stamina, height, "natural" body weight, bone density or thickness, body hair, etc. The fact is, every society needs to think about meaningful and productive ways to help the tails of the curves fit into the structures and institutions that every civilization requires if it's to remain civilized. A large part of that has been in the (semi-modern) past a much broader distribution of wealth than exists within the globalist capitalist economics of today, AND a broader distribution of the actual means and locations of all of the various manners of productive endeavor. Every community "enjoys" about 20% fuck-ups. If any community is to meaningfully and gainfully "exploit" its fuck-ups, it needs 10 or 15 % of the other "tail" to sponsor them, mentor them, manage them, CARE about them, and value their efforts--no matter how lowly--with a decent regard for their well-being and livelihood.
And, to make matter worse, we really have to find something for the geniuses to do besides evil and disruption.
I don't think our problems are race nearly so much as they revolve around the idea--shared among mostly the left leaning, anti-social, and deviants--that societies can exist without functional norms.
govols
Level 8
June 30, 2020
3
We think it's important and interesting.
It's an important issue since differences in average group outcomes is being used as "proof" of racism by those who ban an open discussion of other root causes.
Call it what you want. It is prejudice. People form opinions of others based on their personal standards of beliefs. We tend to judge or even prejudge others by our personal value systems. Some, who are open and accepting, have the opportunity and the personal skills to choose their friends or acquaintances by their characters as opposed to other, more visible traits. Others make snap decisions and end up with a narrowly defined value system. IMHO
PamelaSteele
Level 7
June 30, 2020
3
Like
All white people are racist ?
@David42 Pretty much. I doubt they're more than a handful of humans on this planet who are "pure" any race. Just sayin. Like my Grama used to tell me, "Don't point your finger at anyone. There's always 3 pointing back at you."
Race realism just means there are differences between the races. I don't really understand why that is controversial.
Sacha799
Level 7
June 30, 2020
3
All you have to do is travel through different continents and common sense will tell you that Africans are not quiet as intelligent as Caucasians and Asians. But this is NOT a reason to Hate or enslave them. Marrying inside your race is Not Hate
FrozenSoul
Level 7
June 30, 2020
1
Wow! You are catagorizing people the same way these lunatics do too. Are you for merit or for color? Dont u dare say to me "i don't see color" foo'
So what is the difference between the leftist and the alt rights here so dearly searching for "free speech"
@Sophia_zaid He didn't mention color. The only one talking about color here is you. Even if the majority of Africa had white skin for some reason (which would be bad for them, given the climate around the equator...), their outcome would still be the same. This discussion isn't about color, it's about genetic variation and its influence on average outcomes for different people groups. There is huge genetic divergence between Caucasians, Asians, and Congoids, and it has been measured scientifically.
All human beings have equal worth at birth. Depending on their actions their worth can go up or down, regardless of physical characteristics (e.g. race sex). Example: Who is worth more as a person, Hitler or Socrates.
That does not mean to say that all human genetic groups have exactly the same capabilities.
Usually the each capability of each genetic group follow a bell curve. If you plot mathematical ability for a group a very few will have little ability at one end of the curve, most people will be grouped around the centre of the curve and a very few of mathematical whiz kids at the opposite end to those with little ability.
If you then compare the bell curves for two different genetic groups (males vs females) it is almost certain that the two curves will not exactly match.
The problem is some people/groups will use these differences to draw stupid conclusions like "because group A has more people highly capable in this characteristic than group B, then Group A is superior to Group B".
This is bullshit of the worst possible kind. The vast bulk of people are somewhere in the middle of the curve and have similar capabilities.
Thasaidon
Level 7
June 30, 2020
4
"All human beings have equal worth at birth" - no. All human beings have an equal opportunity to acquire any worth, but they are not intrusively equal by any standard. As soon as there are standards, for, say, entering the National Basketball League, there won't be any equal worth.
I'd rather say - as soon as there are diverse and well-functioning institutions, there will be enough opportunities to acquire worth and value in life to most of the people, even except most dumb and ill-tempered ones. Criminality and its fight with police forces is a game on its own, where lots of value is to be gained.
I’m just gonna say that I’m not gonna say what I really think because I see many others here beginning to be very careful with their words and playing things very safe. That tells me that I’m probably not “free” to really speak my mind.
HauntedFalcon
Level 5
June 30, 2020
3
That is the shame of social media... even on a site that wants to promote cognitive liberty (a prerequisite for free speech). Hang in there.
If you want to PM me. I'll read it with an open mind.
A case for gun owners r. St louis couple defends home from mob. [slug.com]
Leader1776
Level 6
June 30, 2020
1
She may need a bigger gun. A 22 just angers people.
@Admin funny. But.... I .22 is still a deadly weapon. The WW2 era Luger I used to have was also very very accurate, and would deliver a fatal headshot, for example. Still your point is well taken. Hollow points in a .45 and you have a fatal shot even in the arm because you rupture arteries.
Also it's very sad that "discrimination" has been so demonized. The word used to have a positive connotation; a "discriminating" person was someone who noticed differences and made decisions accordingly. Something similar happened with the word "judgment." Making discrimination into a bad word is part of the dumbing down of the population.
LargoEmbargo
Level 6
June 30, 2020
0
Relating to things and/or people? For romance or employment? Seems really hard to discriminate on something superficial like skin color.
@Admin Relating to anything; it used to mean basically "good judgment." Race is not skin color; people of the same race have different skin colors and people of different races can have the same skin color. It's a matter of genetic connections.
When did "white" become a race?
Humanity is one race. Judging people based on skin colour is as irrational as judging them by their hair or eye colour or right/left handedness. My extraction is European, my skin colour is pink.
pbuck0145
Level 8
June 30, 2020
3
This isn't about color. There are different genetic distributions across different people groups, and this is to be expected of groups that were apart for thousands of years. No, we aren't saying genetic differences account for 100% of the unequal outcomes across countries composed of different demographics, maybe not even 50%. But to deny their very existence or their correlation to civilizational success is to deny science.
![[slug.com]](https://slug.com/idw/images/answers/72828_x8mltdpw8yqmx98_full.jpeg?v=2){kind=link}
Disgraceful! But sadly not surprising. I just hope this makes more and more people aware of the true agenda that's going on.
benthejrporter1
Level 6
June 30, 2020
1
Yes, many are waking up but then find that the media/big tech system really is rigged.
If IQ tests are valid, which is a big if considering the state of the science of psychology, then the evidence strongly suggests significant differences between different ethnicities.
The next issue is if there are significant differences between ethnicities in IQ what about personality. Personally test are even less scientific than IQ test. It does seem likely however that people living under different conditions for thousands of years would genetically adapt in terms of predispositions.
What we can be certain of is that differences between ethnicities is not skin deep and involve mental abilities. As much as 80 percent of the genome affects mental abilities and predispositions.
Most of the intellectuals that I consider true intellectuals dodge the question by implying it is not a question that needs asked. You could make the same argument against nuclear research that lead to the atomic bomb or chemistry that lead to explosives, or bioengineering that could go terribly wrong. It's not that it is a bad argument it's just fairly weak and inappropriate. Why don't they push for more research to prove "race realism" is a false narrative?
My personal opinion is that Molyneux missed the boat on the topic. The real issue is not differences between ethnicities but social economic classes. About 20 percent of the population is intellectually or emotionally unable to care for themselves under the current system. If left to their own devices they will essentially destroy their lives because they have no self control or ability for delayed gratification and planning. The harsh reality is that culture has eliminated to a large extent natural selection and nobody knows what to do about it. Least of all people like Zuckerberg, Dorsey, and Gates. These people are not so much innovators as exploiters. The real innovations came from other petheople. Proof of their stupidity is in they actually believe in the fantasy of a post industrial economy. The idiocy is just as bad on the conservative side with the belief in a "service economy". The message from the pandemic that 30 percent of work force is "nonessential" should have cleared up the delusions but they seem to just be doubling down with their insane social theories. The tech world is as much of a fantasy land as Hollywood.
wolfhnd
Level 8
June 30, 2020
1
It seems likely that now that BLM/etc have shown they have power, the message will shift from identity struggle to class struggle as globalization, automation, and demographics create a perfect storm of discontent.
I forgot to add that slave owners didn't hate their slaves anymore than a farmer hates his tractor. Most of the hate comes from the disruption of the class system. You can see the same thing play out with Hillary's deplorables and Obama's clinger speeches. They really do believe they are a better class of people. Trump's election threatened their sense of entitlement. That is also why liberals never seen concerned about exporting pollution and slave labor to China or the appalling human rights abuses against women in Muslim countries. What enrages the left is anything that threatens their superficial sense of moral superiority. They have all been branded like cattle by their own institutions but if they have the smallest brand defect discovered by the mob it's off to the slaughter they go. Ironically humanism has proven to be dehumanizing, I think that was Nieztche's great insight.
wolfhnd
Level 8
June 30, 2020
3
Interesting connection with environmentalism and the disconnect between invisible production and local consumption.
Is "Race Realism" a message of love or hate?
It is neither in isolation. Love and hate are passions, it is not reasoning or open careful thinking. The passionate don't need to change there minds.
Race Realism can be used for good or bad.
The big "holy lie" is everyone is the same, this is our hypocrisy.
MosheBenIssac
Level 8
June 30, 2020
3
Interesting post - thanks!
Politically correct professors, politicians, media types and identity-obsessed SJW acolytes are engaging in what Nietzsche called the holy lie: natural purpose, reason, vanish and are replaced with moral purpose. The value of an action is not measured w/regard to its consequences, but w/regard to its intension and how well it conforms to a set of dogmatic beliefs.
According to Nietzsche, once you intend to influence the direction of mankind, you grant yourself the right to tell lies. “That the lie is permitted as a means to a pious end is part of the theory of every priesthood.”
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