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Does teaching "white guilt" also cultivate a "white pride" backlash?

Glenn Loury, a black author and professor of Economics at Brown University, recently wrote an article entitled "Unspeakable Truths about Racial Inequality in America". In it, he lists ways that "cancel culture" is enforcing a world-view that is often not fully backed up with facts and evidence. He posits further that the vilification of white people and their ancestors could result in an argumentatively justifiable "white pride" backlash. Specifically, he writes:


I wonder if the “white-guilt” and “white-apologia” and “white-privilege” view of the world cannot exist except also to give birth to a “white-pride” backlash, even if the latter is seldom expressed overtly—it being politically incorrect to do so.

Confronted by someone who is constantly bludgeoning me about the evils of colonialism, urging me to tear down the statues of “dead white men,” insisting that I apologize for what my white forebears did to the “peoples of color” in years past, demanding that I settle my historical indebtedness via reparations, and so forth—I well might begin to ask myself, were I one of these “white oppressors,” on exactly what foundations does human civilization in the 21st century stand? I might begin to enumerate the great works of philosophy, mathematics, and science that ushered in the “Age of Enlightenment,” that allowed modern medicine to exist, that gave rise to the core of human knowledge about the origins of the species or of the universe. I might begin to tick-off the great artistic achievements of European culture, the architectural innovations, the paintings, the symphonies, etc. And then, were I in a particularly agitated mood, I might even ask these “people of color,” who think that they can simply bully me into a state of guilt-ridden self-loathing, where is “their” civilization?

Now, everything I just said exemplifies “racist” and “white supremacist” rhetoric. I wish to stipulate that I would never actually say something like that myself. I am not here attempting to justify that position. I am simply noticing that, if I were a white person, it might tempt me, and I cannot help but think that it is tempting a great many white people. We can wag our fingers at them all we want but they are a part of the racism-monger’s package. If one is going to go down this route, one has got to expect this. How can we make “whiteness” into a site of unrelenting moral indictment without also occasioning it to become the basis of pride, of identity and, ultimately, of self-affirmation?

In a way similar to "Black Pride", "Asian Pride" and "Latino Pride" where associated people share camaraderie, a sense of identity, and an admiration for their history, is there a factual or moral argument for people of European ancestry to have "White Pride" (or "Anglo/Euro Pride" )? If not, why not?

White people having/expressing pride in the accomplishments of their ancestors...

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11

I have zero white guilt whatsoever and have no plans to acquire any.

11

Only 6% of entire world population is white. So if anything, the whites are the minority and hence should be afforded special protection and treatment

Lt-JW Level 7 Feb 17, 2021
10

It is a natural reaction to perceived accusations, and all races are capable of such. If you go around pointing the finger and accusing others of being racist based on your emotions alone, chances are good the person you are pointing the finger at will get defensive.

The worse part is they're claiming moral superiority from a genetic perspective. A very dangerous place to go.

Can you explain?

I see no reason not to be justifiably proud of some of the accomplishments of my ancestors. They didn’t do anything notable that I’m aware of apart from surviving in a harsh environment. And it is a simple fact that here 2/3 of the population is white and of European heritage. Should we engage in some self-flagellation simply because this population has generated more and better technologies (for example) than others? The benefits have been shared and welcomed around the world, isn’t that enough?

@parsifal You misunderstood my comment. I take no issue with whites who are proud of their accomplishments. I was referring to those who point the finger at whites and automatically accusing them of being racist simply because they are white.

@SpikeTalon no, I got that part. I meant the “defensive” reaction...and then bumbled along with my own thoughts

9

I don't think about white pride or white guilt because they are philosophical red herrings. The more we talk about white this and white that, the more we're giving legitimacy to the entire critical race theory narrative.

The critical race theory movement is simply a means to overthrow capitalism and replace it with socialism/communism. And it's seen overwhelming adoption because it takes advantage of two modern truisms:

  1. that virtue signaling one's wokeness is a currency to get that sweet dopamine hit via receiving upvotes on Twitter and Facebook, particularly for people who are low achievers looking for external approval and purpose. The people who spend all day on social media - or spend days at a time at protests - usually have no place more productive to be, and that's part of the problem.

  2. that people are more apt to embrace that their standing in life is the result of someone else's malice or apathy than a consequence of their own actions or inaction. Too many people want to blame their personal failures on something/someone else ("the system is rigged against me;" "my father was never there for me;" "I never had the opportunities that [INSERT DEMOGRAPHIC HERE] people got;" etc.) and not remotely enough on their lack of ambition, belief in themselves, or their willingness to make sacrifices for the betterment of their future. Furthermore, people are far less apt to think hard about the truth of a narrative that ultimately benefits them; so even if there's some part of you that thinks there's something wrong with the narrative, "All Manchester United fans are responsible for your lack of social equity," if you aren't a Man U fan, it probably doesn't bother you too much. In fact, it may even make you giddy, if you can't stand Man U.

That is, the people pushing the CRT narrative the hardest don't have solutions; they have acrimony - replete with plenty of finger pointing - and a destination they're trying to get to and somehow this is going to fix everything. How? No one can say, and if you question it, you get the finger pointed at you for daring to suggest the Emperor's New Clothes aren't the most splendid ever seen. And like the Pied Piper, people who have not, will not, or cannot achieve fall in line dancing merrily to the tune. What could possibly go wrong?

I refuse to play the game, even though I can see where this is all going and recognize that it will may one day lead to my destitution, if not murder. I can't control what the mob chooses to do, nor do I want the job. History is replete with incidents driven by the madness of crowds because we refuse to learn from history and I suspect this will eventually be another that historians will look back, sadly shake their heads, and think, "Thank goodness that could never happen here!"

Yup......

8

A backlash toward who ? I've never met a race-baiter in person, that's really the only word I'm comfortable with in calling somebody who proclaims white guilt. These people are the talking heads on news casts or anonymous personalities on-line for the most part. I suppose the schools that are beginning to teach this as a curriculum or companies who require employees to attend Critical Race Theory would be the most egregious culprits. My answer would be to not except the premise...respectfully decline to agree. The people promulgating this agenda are trolls, so don't engage in the argument. Decline to attend CRT courses and force the administration to make the next move, then sue them for wrongful termination if it comes to that. This is like one person holding a gun on one hundred, somebody has to take the first bullet then the rest will overpower him.

By the way...the majority of Mexico is ethnically indigenous, Spain stopped tracking who is Mestizo centuries ago. I've never heard of Spanish guilt accusations coming from the masses down there. This is an American Left Wing tactic and what they really mean is Conservative Guilt, so let's start calling it like it is. And it isn't just pointed at whitey, Larry Elder feels it too. If you haven't watched Uncle Tom, shame on you.

This is like one person holding a gun on one hundred, somebody has to take the first bullet then the rest will overpower him.

Well said.

8

Yes, I like success stories by any creed or color.

7

I believe it is perfectly reasonable to not only feel pride, but also a historical connection with people who are like us.

For example, there is a painting by Diego Velázquez, in the Scottish National Gallery in Edinburgh, called "Old woman frying eggs" (Vieja friendo huevos) It is a beautiful painting that shows exactly that, an elderly woman frying eggs. The painting is from 1618. I remember feeling quite a deep connection with this painting. I am a Spaniard, 400 years later, I love fried eggs, and when I want some kind of comfort food, I fry eggs in olive oil (I normally add some chorizo too)

That does not mean that, for example, I do not appreciate those cobalt blue and white Chinese ceramics from the Ming dynasty, but the connection is not there.

I'm moved when I see artifacts from the far past...

6

People, as such, owe much to their predecessors. What has color got to do with it?

5

I think being proud of the accomplishments of my white ancestors is the same thing as a black person feeling like a victim of the enslavement of their ancestors. Neither one seems to make sense to me and both are just grand narratives made from only a tiny selection of “facts” based on group identity. Thinking this way is tribal thinking which leads to tribal conflict.

5

I don't take pride in my ancestors accomplishments because they're not my accomplishments they're their accomplishments I take pride in my own accomplishments

exactly this.

5

How about teaching them honest history? There are measures of selfless and selfish in every culture. For every hardy settler forging a better future for his family there was a tribal family losing their heritage. Was the settler the only one who was noble? Obviously not. Does this mean the settler and his dreams were intrinsically evil? Just as obviously not.

5

I think it is important to remember that there are two aspects to pride, the positive and the negative. It is generally positive when self directed. The virtue of pride is a commitment to achieve self-esteem by taking credit and responsibility for acting on one's judgment, in accordance with principles.

On the negative side, Pride is considered, on almost every list, the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins. It is identified as dangerously corrupt selfishness, the putting of one's own desires, urges, wants, and whims before the welfare of other people.

In even more destructive cases, it is irrationally believing that one is essentially and necessarily better, superior, or more important than others, failing to acknowledge the accomplishments of others, and excessive admiration of the personal image or self (especially forgetting one's own lack of divinity, and refusing to acknowledge one's own limits, faults, or wrongs as a human being).

So, if we should support "White Pride", upon what principles should this pride be justified?

TyKC Level 7 Feb 17, 2021

I agree with your statements. I think "pride" needs to be associated with something positive or else it will easily be corrupted. In fact, what you are proud of and not proud of says a lot about your character.

To answer your question, instead of jumping into "white pride", which is likely to upset some people, we should first normalise "white culture appreciation" to appreciate all the wonderful aspects of "White culture" as well as appreciation for other cultures. Then any cultural pride will have a positive association, as opposed to useless self aggrandizement

5

Glenn Loury is a thoughtful person (they are always economists for some reason), which is why I'm puzzled that he considers a defense of western culture as exemplifying white supremacist rhetoric. Does it truly matter today that our dominant and good culture (so far) comes from white people? Isn't that a racist perspective? One would have to presume that people of some color would form the culture that has built our society. That it was -Greek Philosophers, faithful Jews and European scientists- that have formed a majority of our culture should not be used to denigrate our culture just as it shouldn't be used to demote those who are of a different color ("all men are equal" is a western culture tenet).

As for celebrating white pride just mention Joe Biden. He's white and there is nothing there to be proud about. Of course there are plenty of other white people in history that should easily erase any thought that "white" in and of itself should be celebrated - Karl Marx, Hitler, Stalin, just to name a few. No, if we are going to be proud of people, let's celebrate the accomplishments of individuals and not so much skin colors.

5

Glen Loury is always a voice of reason.
Along with Thomas Sowell possibly the finest examples of great intellect who speak unpopular truths backed up with even less popular facts

5

Attempting at every turn to marginalize whites or make them feel guilty really doesn't do anything for the cause. It just makes you look as bad as the people that you say marginalized you to begin with. It's not trying to right any wrongs. It's just revenge.

5

To me, minority pride comes from achievements gained despite obstacles placed upon them by the majority.

Black pride comes from achievements gained despite slavery, jim crow, and racism from a non-black majority, i.e. whites.
Gay pride comes from achievements gained despite sexism, prejudice, and disenfranchisement from a non-gays majority, i.e., cis-genders.
Woman pride comes from achievements gained despite misogyny, diminution, and disenfranchisement from a non-woman majority, i.e. males.
Immigrant pride comes from achievements gained despite prejudice and disenfranchisement from non-immigrants, i.e., citizens.

What then does white pride mean in this context?
They have no majority that has placed obstacles in their way.
There has never been a time when they have experienced wholesale prejudice or disenfranchisement.
They have never been slaves, they have always had the right to vote, to make laws, to own property.

And thus while a white INDIVIDUAL has much to be prideful for, has many obstacles placed in their way that they overcome daily, they do not have a majority placing the obstacle of prejudice, disenfranchisement, or slavery in their way... their being white is not a source of pride the way being gay, woman, etc is a source of pride because there is no historical disenfranchisement or prejudice against a majority (white) person the way there is towards a minority (black, gay, immigrant, etc) person.

So my answer to the above question is NO, there is no factual or moral argument for people of European ancestry, the majority, to have "White Pride" in the same way that Blacks, Immigrants, Gays, etc, the minority, have "Minority Pride"

Do you think the left ever studies critically any area except English culture.

Do you think Ireland and English, or Scottish vs French, or German vs Russian consider themselves Unified by whiteness? But no, you probably live in some English melting pot government somewhere, and cry about a system you have no idea how to begin to compare to the success of other nationality.

Was the middle east Arabian unification and then domination of the area a racist obstacle?

Was the Jewish dominance at intellectual fields a sign of overcoming culture?

Was the capitulation of English rule to Gondi a racist movement?

The enlightenment created racism the same way Abrahamic faith created anti homosexuality. The same way feminism was created to combat traditional Christianity.

What about Hinduism existing? Where class is the definition of appropriate distinction and favoritisn? Or Islam’s right to dominate infidels? Or Jewish privileged to standby thier religious racism? Or China’s rights to control beliefs of its citizens? Or Solviet Russia’s right to purge itself of defectors?

I personally had to overcome the obstacles, the upper middle class placed in my way. They were the source of the Architectural contracts I had to compete for.
They traded business among themselves (usually through word of mouth, on the golf course, so there were no witnesses and nothing in writing).
They have to overcome the same obstacles from the one percent, who buy and trade access to Government contracts and political influence like Joe Biden.
Shit flows down hill
Reality sucks

@MisterEdmonds
You sound perturbed by my response but I haven't the foggiest why.

@David42
You bring up an excellent point that viewed economically, the minority (the rich) are always the ones that put obstacles in the way of the majority (the poor).

Though I would add that when the minority rich are also the majority white, you have often insurmountable obstacles for the majority poor that are also minority non-white.

Ever heard about the Afrikaner in South Africa?
Obviously not, else you would not write that.
And they are not the only example.

Maybe some history reading will help, read up on the Irish, then on Finnish history... then further back most of Eastern Europe during Ottoman rule.
Then French and Belgian history during Roman occupation.
And don’t just look at white people. Look at South Korean history.

The word slave literally comes from the Slavs... a white Eastern European group of peoples.
Claiming that white people were never oppressed or enslaved or a minority and overcome that to greatness shows your ignorance and a bit of your racism.

You know, this country was 'virgin' territory compared to Europe. It had to be built, one stone at a time. There were certainly obstacles for blacks, but also for Asians. My parents who came here in the 50s came with nothing and had to make their way with no help. Obstacles are relative.

@Hanno
RE: Afrikaners
The subjugation of a native non-white populations by a white colonial minority though violence, apartheid, and abuse is nothing to be proud of.

@Hanno

Claiming that white people were never oppressed or enslaved or a minority and overcome that to greatness shows your ignorance and a bit of your racism.

Never made that universal claim about all space and all time.
But as the topic is focused Admin to be about North America (this particular space) and it's history (that particular time) then yes, native whites north americans were never enslaved or a minority. Only immigrant whites (Irish for e.g.) experienced prejudice but even then, white Irish males had the right to vote, to hold office, to own land etc that the native Black males or native Americans or native women (of any color) did not have.

But let me be universal: I do claim that where white's are the immigrant non-colonial minority, like say Marco Polo in China or Christian missionaries in Japan, they can lay claim to "white pride" for accomplishing things despite opposition from the Asian majority.

@tracycoyle

My parents who came here in the 50s came with nothing and had to make their way with no help.

And they should be absolutely and rightfully proud of their accomplishments as immigrants.
As immigrants, they suffered prejudice and hardships that citizens do not endure and having overcome that, they should be proud of themselves and you of them.

But (assuming they were white), what extra hardship, prejudice, or disenfranchisement did they endure for being white?
What did they accomplish by being "white" that would stand as a comparable source of pride to "black pride" in rosa parks or "gay pride" in Harvey Milk?

@TheMiddleWay They were Irish. The term 'white trash' was usually applied.

@TheMiddleWay
Yep, I was correct, you know nothing of the Afrikaner history and jumped straight to your racist views of them.
Maybe if you know about the two Anglo-Boer wars and the fallout of that you would be less arrogant.

Just because you don’t know history does not mean it did not happen.

Another ignorant claim that Europeans have nothing to be proud of (even according you your definition).

PRIDE cometh before a fall...

@TheMiddleWay @TheMiddleWay @TheMiddleWay it’s this modern idea “white” people (which has never been a term until American melting pot and modern politics developed in the latest generations), are unfairly advantaged, when each tribe began at the same point. The fact that European culture assimilated Christianity built a strong foundation for society. Today’s conclusion that white people need be handicapped is fringe political theory that is mainstreaming because of victimhood of other skin toned groups. Did certain people treat other aliens like misunderstood people’s? Duh. But this happened within these clear toned tribes as well.

The idea people are mainstream racist is rude, and world history shows that England became a world trade empire, even while warring Germans, French, Spanish, Russians, Vikings

To say they never faced obstacles just paints your new politic philosophy as new age foolishness to destroy a ardent middle class people as natural enemies to pigmented people is a real cold hearted move. Other ethnicities have the freedom to develope their distinct values. Cooperation turns out helps everyone. Did the ancestors of American slavery already benefit as America prospered, or did they stay in the style of the era this happened? Integration has already happened, and modern day hero’s of demand Inclusuon to Undo family/community success of Americans because they are evangelicals and the enemy of liberal progress because of Christ value system needs made perfectly clear. And no, money is not the cornerstone of any culture save perhaps Judaism, peoples cliques of America enjoy their socialhood. Poor people have each other, and that could mean more than the wealthiest people ever could eat or use.

New world order shills will laugh now, and cry when their payment to the truth is due

@TheMiddleWay they would probably say Evangelical success. White isn’t a flipping ethnicity except in America where the tribal roots to ancestors have blended, and integrated with other tribes from the world. Was it shocking at first? Did the enlightenment argue scientifically about the superior >evolution< of clear toned people?

It has only to do with which tribes cemented themselves into Christianity that long game won out.* Except for Judaism, they were a highly organized and intellectually developed culture from which the West was won

@TheMiddleWay And what is happening today? Stop cherry picking and address the reality...
To my way of thinking... PRIDE... is a very over-rated thing.
Here in Australia we don't have the American culture, we don't put people up on pedestals, those that do we ignore . We have what is known as the tall poppy syndrome... look it up.
We have a tendency towards humility not Pride and we respect quiet achievers unlike the US.
We also don't talk in colours as those in the US seem to have a habit of.

@Lightman
I personally agree with you: I don't use minority pride in my own worldview.
As a Hispanic immigrant, I'm very proud of what I and my family have accomplished.
And while I recognize the extra hardships this has placed on us, overcoming those hardships aren't an extra source of pride, it's just what what we had to do.

That doesn't stop me from attempting to understand how others might use it however, particularly in a majority vs. minority population context. My understanding that when people do say "latino pride" or "gay pride" they are saying it in the context of a minority persevering against a majority.

@Lightman

tall poppy syndrome

Interesting! Thanks for brining this to my attention.
Here we call that "cutting one down to size".
Same ideology and I suspect etymology.

@Hanno
Let's see.
They are the white 5% minority of the total population.
They are colonial immigrants.
The Afrikaner party dominated South African politics until 1994.
They instituted apartheid which perpetrated brutal crimes of torture, rape and murder against people of color.
The Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging is still active.

Care to explain how I am being racist by pointing out the obviously racistist Afrikaner history of violence against people of color, Hanno ol' boy?

@Hanno And the Ottomans STILL occupy Anatolia at the behest of the Kurds, Greeks, and Armenians.

".... So my answer to the above question is NO, there is no factual or moral argument for people of European ancestry, the majority, to have "White Pride" in the same way that Blacks, Immigrants, Gays, etc, the minority, have "Minority Pride"....". No where in the question does it say "in the same way". Pride means different things to different people. Just because one has not overcome difficult circumstances in a similar way, does not mean that one can not appreciate one's accomplishments and positive characteristics. Guilt mongering is an outdated and medieval way of trying to subjugate or coerce people. You only have to look at history briefly to understand that it has terrible consequences. The main issue to debate, in my opinion, is "what aspects of your culture do you appreciate and why". (And to clarify, life itself is a big challenge. So to overcome those challenges and achieve Scientific/Cultural advancement is by itself an amazing accomplishment).

@TheMiddleWay
Your claim is that no European group of people where ever oppressed and got out of that in a way to be pride of.
Suggest you read the two Anglo-Boer wars and what happened to the Afrikaner between 1901 and 1930.
Genocide by British and oppression to destroy the culture, language and identity... the very thing minority’s claim today.

Yet the Afrikaner build South Africa up to a first world country. Despite embargoes by hypocrite countries, we developed nuclear energy, the first heart transplant and the largest indigenous university in the wold that produced more black doctors than the rest of Africa combined... all during Apartheid. We also produced more back lawyers, engineer etc than the rest of Africa combined.
Nelson Mandela got his law degree in an apartheid university.
Black life expectancy went from low 30’s to low 60’s between 1900 and 1990. Now it is back to low 50’s.

And yes, during the height of “torture, rape, and murder”, over 20 million blacks immigrated INTO South Africa during apartheid. That is more than the actual black population. They all left their safe countries to come to South Africa to be raped and murdered.
No I don’t think so.

Tells you much how much of the stuff you know you don’t know.
Doesn’t it!

But is does explain a lot of your views. You are very opinionated without actually knowing the history of what is happening or have happened and believe whatever fits your wold view.

@TheMiddleWay
There are many things the Afrikaner did wrong. The way we treated our Cape coloured community is a shame we carry.
However so did the British everywhere they went... the Americans, the Australians, even the NZers did some horrible things.
Reading up Chilean history there is lot your ancestors have done as well ol boy...

I specifically referred to how the Finns and Afrikaner etc recovered from oppression and how no one helped any of these Europeans and how they succeeded.
Today failed groups claim they are the only ones to be oppressed. They fail because they always look for other to save them.
Successful groups saved themselves.
Same people, just different mind set.

And that is something to be proud of.

@Hanno

Your claim is that no European group of people where ever oppressed and got out of that in a way to be pride of.

I said literally the opposite when I used Marco Polo in china or Christian missionaries in Japan as examples.

@TheMiddleWay
Ok, I was annoyed with you and missed that part.
Also that you later stated you only meant that to be applicable to the US, I missed that until I read it later.
That however is another discussion I don’t think I need to be involved in.

So I will end my arguments at this point on this matter.

4

Are aware of the outstanding contribution white people have made toward civilising the planet over the last 300 years or so.

4

It has to be remembered that this phenomena isn't localised to America. If it was, I wouldn't be here. It's global. But what really gets me is their denunciation of Whites as 'Nazis' in a generic smear. I have little time for those who resort to that sort of name-calling here. The programs that Biden has no doubt rushed to reinstate are no different from the Nazis and singling out the Jews. Whatever your opinion is on that, the comparison is striking. I just see Whites (not here) passively submitting to this egregious scapegoating. And we all know that it's intrinsic for their 'great reset.' To conquer a people you deny their culture, their homelands, and invalidate them as a race.

It has to be remembered that this phenomena isn't localised to America. If it was, I wouldn't be here.

You live in Australia

@JacksonNought Give that man a cigar. He can read. Although methinks he's being too literal. I meant here, arguing nationalism.

@BarrySpall fair enough.

4

Some people are just obsessed with race... I have no idea why .

It's not like you have a choice in it .

4

Being happy with WHO you are surely includes ethnicity. My being happy ALSO wants others to do the same.

4

It is because white people DONT have white pride that other races are able to accuse us of it.

Try accusing a black man of black pride... yes and your point is?

It is just white people who somehow feel guilty about being more successful than others.
Chinese and Japanese although just as successful don’t.

Still have to meet a black athlete who feels guilty about running faster or playing basketball better than other races.

White men especially feel so bad about being good playing chess that we just made a TV series of an imaginary girl becoming world champion.

We put black people into impossible historical roles because we are so ashamed of our amazing history and achievements.
No one else does that.

Hanno Level 7 Feb 17, 2021

Curious anomaly, one could almost be forgiven (if it weren’t a sign of "white supremacy" and "conspiracy theorizing" ) for entertaining the thought that white guilt is a deliberate, socially engineered, sentiment...

4

Whites should not be dancing to the tune of the Left.

No one should!

@LukeGP of course, but more so those who are being targeted.

4

Right-wing interests cultivate racist and sexist backlashes when civil rights threaten their bottom line.

And left wing? They just kill everyone.

@parsifal Who exactly do you think are the powerful left wing interests in this day and age? I don't think there are any.

@WilyRickWiles Globally? You need to ask?

@parsifal 100% of the time they control governments. Left can’t stand the imperfection of people. Though they preach they do not entertain. They fight labels, only to seek to label everything to their standard. Though they decry religion being free, they demand government regulate it. Libertarians demand more liberty for fringe human rights and less liberty for everyday citizens to have.

They dream of utopia, and so destroy what exist, because thier goals are based in the “perfected human”, which they define themselves, so eventually eat each other because they believe themselves to be the poster child, but are only a symbol of doing what they hate

@MisterEdmonds Agree.

When asked what comes next every sad sack of shit can’t answer. Socialism has been tried and failed virtually every time it has been tried. The only reason it can succeed at all is by lining up people against a wall to be shot as a reminder that obedience is a requirement...30 million Russians and 60 million Chinese can attest to that.

And still the clowns on the left keep bleating their inane comments

@parsifal
But but ... democratic socialism!

You forgot who you are talking to... when I read his comment I thought someone was being sarcastic... then saw who the poster is... lol!

@Hanno Because anything to the left of the right-moving status quo is Stalinism...

@WilyRickWiles
I must give it you, that was a funny response.
😅

@parsifal pol pot was said to be a charming, intelligent, kind man. Same for Lenin. Problem with idealism and agnostics is that they aren’t skeptical of their own conclusions, and demand it from others

How about they organize their own trial and not conspire to control governments to achieve its aims. But really I believe in God, who raised up Nebachanzer, to be the one to over throw the world to teach His people the lesson of agnosticism, perhaps thier is a spiritual reason behind the governmental developments of the people. There’s no science to say if God thinks this the best, or people demoralize into the worst, thus wrath.. book of revelations that warns of the deceptive one world government which happens because the people are deceived by the “merchants made rich from the harlot”, the harlot being the people who were Gods people, and turned to economics instead..

3

Peoples culture and heritage should be to inspire not degrade, its something you should be prepared to go to war over.

Comparing white, or European culture to be more precise to any others you are on a hiding to nothing because the "whites" invented virtually everything good in the world today and just slating them isn't going to level things.

3

Expressing pride in the accomplishments of our ancestors, regardless of race, is completely justifiable imo, as well as should be encouraged rather than dismissed based on racism, sexism, bigotry, etc.

Everything in our history, the good, the bad, and the ugly, helped shape where we are today. I don't think the bad and ugly should be downplayed, however I think only focusing on the bad and ugly will leave a great deal many people resentful of being unfairly represented in history. So, I agree with this article.

Predicting what could happen in the future, based on what happened in the past, is not an exact science. Black pride movements didn't happen overnight. It took many decades of dehumanizing abuse. I can't speak for all white people, but I don't see the same levels of abuse towards white people that would give way to a widely accepted white uprising. However, any amount of race based discrimination made mainstream, like CRT, is very concerning. Historically, categorizing people based on immutable characteristics, end very badly.

I don't think teaching "whites are born with privilege" ergo "should dismantle their whiteness", will lead to a widely accepted belief that "whites are subhuman" ergo "should be eradicated", which then will lead to a widely accepted "white pride" movement and or full blown race war, based on history.

History doesn't repeat in so neat a fashion. It's messy, it's complicated, too many people, too many points of view, and variables to consider. However, I do think there's already a great deal of damage being done with every new "50 Shades of Whiteness" that keeps churning out. Racism has become so commonplace a word, that it's lost it's meaningful impact. Plus, a lot of people of all races don't like being categorized, generalized, and placed in some inherent caste system.

"I can't speak for all white people, but I don't see the same levels of abuse towards white people that would give way to a widely accepted white uprising. "
Perhaps you need to study a society where "white" people are in the minority then. What is it the Chinese call foreigners? What has happened in South Africa and Zimbabwe? There are examples all over the world.

@Lightman I don't think he is referring to the scenario you are talking about. I don't think CRT is taught in those regions

@saramarylop3z I agree with you. It's a very ineffective and primitive way of dealing with a complicated challenge. I think appreciation for the wonderful aspects of your culture, whether it is present or past, is a wonderful and even essential aspect of a healthy culture. It encourages you to build on that greatness. But CRT, cancel culture, etc usually have an opposite effect because you can't build on a foundation of horribleness, just like you can't build on a foundation of uselessness. It's one thing to accept constructive criticism and learn from past errors but to wallow in guilt and somehow make it "normal" is very counterproductive!

@Lightman Good point. I was thinking about America vs CRT and didn't take into account the rest of the world.

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