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Should big tech firms hire more Blacks and Hispanics?

Every year, big tech firms voluntarily announce the results of their efforts to "increase racial diversity" among their employees. But while "tech companies say they value diversity, but reports show little change in last six years." says [cnbc.com] [wired.com] . Most of the proponents of the diversity reports focus on the low percentage of Hispanics (5%) and Blacks (3%) while overlooking the high percentage of Asians (42%) and the relatively low percentage of Whites (47%)... all compared to the overall population (60% White, 18.5% Hispanic, 13.4% Black, 5.9% Asian).

What is (almost?) never reported is how do each of the percentages compare with the available pool of candidates who can thrive in the highly technical and selective environment. Irrespective of the reasons why, the percentage of people of higher IQ, a measure of problem solving skills desired by tech firms, skews in favor of Asians and against Blacks/Hispanics.

For example, if we assume that the AVERAGE IQ of these employees is 115 (the top 16% of the population), the percentage of each racial group in the "pool" of candidates will be about 2.5% Black, 7.1% Hispanic, 12.1% Asian, and 78% white. This would suggest that Blacks and Hispanics are hired at about the same rate as the qualified candidates, Asians at about 3.5 times as many, and Whites at 60% as many.

But is this enough? Should big tech firms hire more people from groups which have historically been under represented?

Should big tech firms hire more Blacks and Hispanics?

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Admin 8 Dec 25
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42 comments

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20

Racial or Religious or Gender any other criteria in “hiring” is ... “Racist”?

There should be ONLY ONE Criteria ... MERIT.

I don’t care if a person is Pink with Purple Polka Dots or Green ...
They can either DO the Job or Not.

12

Hire the best person for the job. Color, ethnicity and gender do not enter the mix.

Why some companies had reverted to a form of double-blind hiring...but it wasnt diverse enough for today’s SJWs

11

How about hiring who is qualified? Just a thought.

Kewlryd Level 2 Dec 25, 2020
11

I have a whacky crazy idea. Let’s spend the next decade breaking the back of the teacher’s unions, and rescue the education system from the Democratic corruption that has basically guaranteed that minority children in the Democratic cities receive a piss-poor education and can only gain entry in the work force through diversity quotas. Change the system, start giving kids a fighting chance from the start.

Then, we hire on the basis of merit.

How’s that sound?

10

ALL hiring should be done on the basis of skills, knowledge and performance. Meritocracy should be the only considered factor.

Tom81 Level 8 Dec 13, 2020
9

I began my working life in 1975 because of the new hiring mandates from affirmative action I was ineligible for most jobs, not because of lack of skill or qualifications but because I was a white male. this was also the ending of the Vietnam war and many returning GI's were given preferential treatment in hiring. As a result of these practices most of my early work was with illegal and migrant workers. needless to say when I see people talking about racial Inequity or preferential hiring I would appose it. Anything besides qualification based hiring is unfair to others that are applying to a position.

KeVince Level 8 Dec 26, 2020
8

I mean... if there are qualified people from minority groups applying then hire them? I don't understand the push for 'more diversity' hiring in fields that typically don't have a hugely diverse group of applicants. It isnt the fault of the companies if they don't get X amount of Afican American or LGBT or female applicants when their workplace is commonly not made up of those demographics.

Hell. My husband works HVAC and they rarely see women applying despite women regularly being some of the most skilled in that sort of job (when they actually go into that field, according to all the HVAC guys I've met who have worked with women at work). Why? Because we woman typically don't WANT that job. On average we don't want to have our hands sliced all to hell with sheet metal, cramping our backs for 8 hours in a crawlspace, or getting heat stroke in a one hundred twenty degree attic. And yet somehow those facts yield a lifted nose from the 'diverse hire' crowd, as if the lack of interest from women is based in sexism and not on personal choices made by those applying.

I know I went off topic there a bit, but it applies. Hire the qualified people who apply no matter their skin, heritage, gender, sex, whatever. And if you see a dude or gal high up who is hiring only certain people because they're racist or sexist or what have you? Replace THEM with a normal, nice person who doesn't assume ridiculous things based on superficial aspects like skin or genitals.

/endrant?

7

The fairest way to hire is to hire the most qualified person. The people that work hard to be qualified should be rewarded and employers that need quality employees shouldn't have to settle for less to meet a quota.

6

Does anyone think blacks or Hispanics appreciate getting a job because someone is tilting the scales in their favor to meet a quota? How insulting. If blacks and Hispanics don't represent roughly 14% and 17% of the big tech work force, respectively, I'd be asking a couple of questions like, are those jobs desirable to that demographic? Are they taking advantage of education opportunities that properly prepare them?

Some will feel insulted by the concept, and others will take full advantage of these discriminatory programs. All races have their decent folks, their scum, and everything in between.

6

Merit only. This hiring based on special interest groups only degrades effectiveness and efficiency.

skaarda Level 7 Dec 26, 2020

It's a fast path to mediocrity.

6

Hiring should be according to merit first. No one should be excluded because of race, creed or gender, similarly, no one should be elevated above the pack because of race, creed or gender.

Remember how long it took me to explain to Middleway that affirmative action necessarily requires discrimination?

@Hanno Apparently he’s a little thicker than most SJWs

@TheMiddleWay
It was some time ago... I use only my tiny phone for this discussions so a job to search.
It was a long discussion where I said that affirmative action necessarily requires discrimination. You stated that affirmative action does not necessarily require discrimination.... I am paraphrasing here.

Interesting that you state that you always said AA is discriminating. Maybe the issue was the words you now add: “Quota based”.
You think “non-quota” based AA is not discriminatory?
In other words AA based on past “injustices”, real or imagined?

All you need to read is the South African constitution where they conceded that it is always discriminatory and therefore discrimination in South Africa is legal by constitution as long as it is “positive” discrimination AND is race based... in other words against any race that may have had any advantage during Apartheid.
AA is the action, quota based is just the target.

We concluded as far as I remember that AA is always discriminatory, in all its forms by definition. It is up to you to decide whether you believe that discrimination is “justified” or “positive”.

It leaves the philosophical question when it is actually justified to discriminate against people.
I discriminate against the lazy and dumb when I hire and promote people.
We all discriminate against ugly people when we look for sex.
Etc etc... is discrimination against your previous privilege, whether your fault or not then also acceptable.

What if certain religions such as being Christian in America or Hindu in India gave you certain privileges in the past... should it be allowed to AA against it?

@TheMiddleWay
Nothing wrong in your last comment and pretty much what I believe as well.

I am trying to remember why we disagreed at all in the past discussions.
Maybe it was about the experience part or some other side issue which is really arbitrary.

In that case I withdraw my original response where I said I took a long time to convince you.
It must have been something else or similar.

6

If you have two equally qualified candidates, there are many ways to make that decision on basis other than race. Deciding to hire because of race is, by definition. Racist.

Jpa2046 Level 5 Dec 26, 2020

Exactly. If you are for instance hiring a new employee into a group of existing employees you may have to choose between male or female. Or avoiding a personality type that may prove to be detrimental to the chemistry of your work force. There are lots of factors involved and not everyone is suited for every job and an employer should be the one to choose. Not an overeaching Government.

6

Hire the most qualified. Anything else is racist.

6

Hire the qualified person regardless of ethnicity

5

@TheMiddleWay If they are equally qualified, then you check past work history and references. If they are equal or similar, than you choose the candidate who interviewed better. If the job itself is not dependent of race, then race should not be a considerable factor.

Tom81 Level 8 Dec 25, 2020

@TheMiddleWay still trying to make your racism palatable?

Your grade, teacher - F

@TheMiddleWay

Still racist?

5

Corporations should hire the candidate who is most competent. It is incumbent upon society (government) to ensure that all races/ethnicities have equal, fair access to the training required to fill those positions.

sorry... this post is in progress... will go live in a week

4

@TheMiddleWay You, and woke 'liberals' in general, seem to be more obsessed with race than the people you are purporting to be against. If ending discrimination isn't the goal, what is? Revenge? Equity? If its equity, where do we draw the line? Maybe we should hire an equal mix of race/gender despite qualifications? Maybe CEO should be paid the same as the janitor to ensure wage equity? Maybe we should hire an equal amount of lazy to productive workers?
You look white in your profile pic. If you are and your white guilt is getting to you, why don't you offer your position to someone who is black? After all, you having your position is oppressing black people who could have filled the role.

Tom81 Level 8 Dec 26, 2020

@TheMiddleWay Yet you wrote clearly you’d hire a black person before the white based solely on the colour of their skin...

In these parts we call that trying to suck and blow at the same time.

Dance on, teacher.

@TheMiddleWay You restating a racist comment doesn’t make it any less racist.

Try again.

4

@TheMiddleWay You don't end discrimination by changing the group you discriminate against. What you're suggesting is discriminating against white people to benefit black people due to past injustice. But how long should you continue that before we go full circle and have to discriminate against black people because white people have been discriminated against? How far back should we go back historically too?

(And for some reason, my reply button doesn't always come up. Sometimes all I get is the : report, follow or show likes option. No reply option available)

Tom81 Level 8 Dec 25, 2020

@TheMiddleWay An honest question? No it isn’t. That’s is among the most racist comments in this topic. What “catching up” needs to be done?

@TheMiddleWay the more astute would recognize our Canadian prime minister...

@TheMiddleWay It’s your statement. You figure it out. I said it’s racist - prove me wrong

@TheMiddleWay No reason? Your question presumes blacks are incapable of competing equally and need some help overcoming white “advantage”....evidence?

@TheMiddleWay You have yet to address the long standing practise of scoring blacks and whites differently...as an educator I hope you can appreciate that’s in the real world that creates its own problem...but as part of the problem my guess is that’s beyond you.

@TheMiddleWay Google, little man.

@TheMiddleWay Your statement is clear - you’re a racist. I have no need to prove anything.

@TheMiddleWay Still hoping nobody will notice your racist comment?

Pretty sad, teacher.

4

Shouldn't companies be most interested in hiring the most effective and productive workers regardless of their minority status?

Jpa2046 Level 5 Dec 25, 2020

@TheMiddleWay You must be from Hawaii with all the spam you produce.

4

Hire the most qualified person regardless of ethnicity period

Equality is subjective it does not exsist in nature how do you expect humans to be objective?

4

If you don't have to state gender on an application, you shouldn't have race on an application either.

@TheMiddleWay I don't think we have to reach the question of whether it is racist or not. But i do think that the floor should be much higher, perhaps $20 billion in capitalization. Thus Apple, Facebook, and Google should certainly be required to comply, and the hires should be in engineering, legal, and executive positions, and not in some token HR positions. The idea would be that these organizations give to BLM and claim that there is systemic racism. But they own the system. So they should fix it, spending as much as is necessary to train their new engineers, lawyers, and executives.

Aren't you guys forgetting affirmative action. How'd that experiment work, huh? It didn't. It still doesn't.

To say blacks or other minorities are under such repression as to not have the fortitude to persevere is no different than an oppressive husband taking "care" of his wife because she isn't "well".

If you tell someone they aren't good enough, they will begin to believe it.

Affirmative action affirmed (in the psyche of the individual within the minority group) that the actions of those minorities were ineffective because they had to be "cared for" by the oppressors.

Drop the bs. Let them be autonomous, self striving, individuals. Let them prove to themselves and those trying to save them that they don't need saving because they don't.

Minorities don't need toxic handouts, fake pitty, or your permission. They need you to shut up and and move the hell out of their fight so they have the esteem from doing it themselves.

Black live matters and liberal handouts are the biggest scams in history. It weakens people, leaving us nothing but feeble persons of no ability to care for themselves. It's abusive.

Thanks @TheMiddleWay for your reply.

I'm not at all sure that Google does comply, even assuming the table is correct.

First, my understanding is that the black population in CA is 5.5% of the total, so they would be somewhat under at 4%; note that the black population in CA is declining, as it used to be 7.7%. (In both cases, i'm quoting by memory numbers from the MSM, so there are two possible sources for error [my memory, and their accuracy], but i think i remember the numbers because they were so striking.)

The second point is that the data presented here does not tell which percentage of the engineering force is black, just the overall percentage, or perhaps, the percentage of "tech workers". Some of them may be stuffed into HR positions, and others may not be ADOS, which is where, imvho, any issues of morality come into play.

@TheMiddleWay as stated somewhere in the thread, personality, and I might add authenticity, plays a huge role in the interview. You could declare raceism or gender discrimination but you'll never really know unless a pattern emerges from the same business over and over. After that, you've got a lawsuit.

@TheMiddleWay it actually would explain it, in my opinion, as much as the racism thing

@TheMiddleWay you would have to recreate the same study, over and over, with the same batch of companies to be able to be sure that what you are concluding is actually the case. It's a bias conclusion.

@TheMiddleWay so are all metropolises in the study from divergent locations of social belief perception? I know people think and feel differently in Portland Oregon than other places. I'm just saying, those studies can indicate certain things but they don't provide proof of anything.

@TheMiddleWay I'm honestly not sure. Maybe we should ask a truck driver 😉

4

Not sure if the tech firms themselves seek to discriminate against whites or not on their own terms, but affirmative action rules certainly pave the way to discriminate (or allow discrimination) against caucasians. Indeed, over the last two or so decades now affirmative action has changed rather little in favor of the perceived minorities.

sorry... this post is in progress... will go live in a week

@Admin Ah okay, all good.

3

Capability, competency matter - not race!

w0tn0t Level 8 Dec 26, 2020
3

How about just a blind hiring pool selecting the most qualified person?

jakuboj Level 8 Dec 26, 2020

#FreeMarkets

@ZuzecaSape Until you get smear campaigns and politically motivated boycotts by people who don't believe in the free market...

3

How about on merit?!

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