Now you have a point with no-fly lists. They have been used to strip citizens of rights and privileges with no due process, and are an unconstitutional overreach by the government.

@Mechanic When the state can carry out extrajudicial killings of American citizens without charge or trial, anything goes.

@maxmaccc are we discussing drone strikes on US citizens?

@Mechanic Yes, Obama's speciality.
If the state can take someones life, temporarily depriving someone freedom of movement seems inconsequential.

@maxmaccc I would say that they are both a huge overreach of authority neither one should have been permitted. I would also add in the patriot act to the long list of government abuse of power.

Leftist? The Right give pardons to convicted and proven guilty felons but those poor, innocent people stuck at their hotels, awww.
Not everything is left/right, in reality at least.

@maxmaccc Well, the D.C. city government that controls the police force there is not made up of people on the right. And that is what I was talking about. The majority of people who are in that hotel did not take part in any illegal activity and, therefore, do not deserve to be treated as though they are criminals. As for the Presidential pardons, I think they would need to be discussed on a case by case basis, but I doubt there will be agreement on a number of them.

@maxmaccc pardons by definition are giving to people that almost exclusively have been convicted of crimes, and last I checked pardons have been handed out by presidents from both parties.

@Mechanic True, but typically they seek to pardon people whom they suspect have been unjustly convicted, or who have been the victims of a miscarriage of justice such as an unequal application of the law, or who they deem to have fulfilled their responsibility for their crimes and shown evidence of reform. To be sure, this is not always the case, but it has historically been the approach as I have understood it. And, yes, presidents of both parties have done it. But in none of these cases are innocent people deliberately treated as guilty by a president. Yet that is what has happened to the aforementioned people blockaded in their hotel and not allowed to leave. It is one thing to show mercy to those convicted of a crime, something which our Constitution allows; it is another thing entirely to treat the innocent as though they are guilty, something which our Constitution does not allow.

@KeithThroop when I first posted my comment I had not watched the video, but there is no comparison between the two actions. Detaining large masses of people for the crimes of a small minority that may also be in the same location is nothing like pardons. They do both have precedent though, one is established in the constitution, the other is prevalent under tyrants. Trying to compare trumps pardons to mass detentions is absurd especially when Obama, Bush, Clinton have all made use of pardons.

@Mechanic Exactly.

@Mechanic Have you noticed some of Trump's pardons include his co-defendants?

@Mechanic, @KeithThroop Pardoning Co-defendants. Would that make a difference to you?

@maxmaccc Co-defendants? In what trial? I don't recall an actual court case in which President Trump was involved and in which he pardoned a co-defendant.

@KeithThroop Michal Cohen ring a bell?
Individual number one was his co-defendant and he also named Trump as individual number one.
He's the only one that named him and therefore did not to get a pardon.
Suggesting that Trump was blissfully unaware of the numerous other convicted felons surrounding him, and their activities is disingenuous. Their silence is the price of a pardon.
After Trump leaves office, he'll no longer be protected from the legal loose ends he has to face and with his pardoning powers gone, people will be willing to give evidence.
Personally, i think the fear of the consequences of his behaviour is what motivates him the most to hang on to power, even at the cost of the Republic.

@maxmaccc So who was the co-defendant pardoned in this case? And what was the case? I thought Cohen was charged during the Mueller investigation, which was not actually a court case against President Trump and in which he was not, therefore, a co-defendant. At any rate, as you have pointed out, President Trump did not pardon Cohen anyway.

@maxmaccc I have not really looked into his pardons much outside of General Flynn who I believe was prosecuted for personal reasons not related to any illegal Conduct he may have done. With any pardon there will be people who agree with it and those that oppose it, I won’t comment on any specific pardon without looking into the case to some extent.

@KeithThroop Trump was named as an unindicted co-conspirator. Named as "Individual 1, he instructed Cohen to pay two women to conceal his sexual relationship with them. Cohen admitted his conduct was a crime to commit federal campaign fraud following the instruction of Trump.
"At any rate, as you have pointed out, President Trump did not pardon Cohen anyway."
I followed that with the " the cost of a pardon is silence."
That's the reason why Cohen didn't get a pardon and the numerous other felons surrounding Trump did, as you probably already know.

@maxmaccc You are making several assumptions there for which I don't see any real evidence. And, by the way, an unnamed, "unindicted co-conspirator" is hardly a "co-defendant," as you previously claimed President Trump to be, when you asked "Have you noticed some of Trump's pardons include his co-defendants?" I replied that I know of none, and all you have come up with is Michael Cohen? A man who was not a co-defendant and who was not pardoned by the president? You aren't making any sense here, at least not to me.

@KeithThroop You're being intellectually dishonest. No one can be so blind as to not see the connections(pardons) between Trump and numerous close associates and employees who are also convicted felons. The only felon to incriminate Trump, by name is the only one not to receive a pardon. You surely are not so naive!