John Calvin's Geneva
Many Protestant regimes (theocracies, like the Puritans) were stiffly dogmatic to a degree unknown outside Rome. John Calvin’s Geneva, however, represented the ultimate in repression. The city-state of Geneva, which became known as the Protestant Rome, was also, in effect, a police state, ruled by a Consistory of five pastors and twelve lay elders, with the figure of the dictator looming over all.
In physique, temperament, and conviction, Calvin (1509–1564) was the inverted image of the freewheeling, permissive, high-living popes whose excesses had led to Luther's breaking away. Frail, thin, short, and lightly bearded, with ruthless, penetrating eyes, he was humorless and short-tempered. The slightest criticism enraged him. Those who questioned his theology he called “pigs,” “asses,” “riffraffs,” “dogs,” “idiots,” and “stinking beasts.” One morning he found a poster on his pulpit accusing him of “Gross Hypocrisy.” A suspect was arrested. No evidence was produced, but he was tortured day and night for a month till he confessed. Screaming with pain, he was lashed to a wooden stake. Penultimately, his feet were nailed to the wood; ultimately he was decapitated.
Calvin’s justification for this excessive rebuke reveals the mindset of all Reformation era inquisitors, Protestant and Catholic alike: “When the papists are so harsh and violent in defense of their superstitions” he asked, “are not Christ’s magistrates shamed to show themselves less ardent in defense of the sure truth?” Clearly, he would have condemned the Jesus of Matthew (5:39, 44) as a heretic. In Calvin’s Orwellian theocracy, established in 1542, acts of God—earthquakes, lightning, flooding—were acts of Satan. Copernicus was branded a fraud, attendance at church and sermons was compulsory, and Calvin himself preached at great length three or four times a week. Refusal to take the Eucharist was a crime. The Consistory, which made no distinction between religion and morality, could summon anyone for questioning, investigate any charge of backsliding, and entered homes periodically to be sure no one was cheating Calvin’s version of God. Legislation specified the number of dishes to be served at each meal and the color of garments worn. What one was permitted to wear depended upon who one was, for never was a society more class–ridden than Calvin's Geneva.
But even the elite—the clergy, of course—were allowed few diversions. Calvinists worked hard because there wasn’t much else they were permitted to do. “Feasting” was proscribed; so were dancing, singing, pictures, statues, relics, church bells, organs, altar candles; “indecent or irreligious” songs, staging or attending theatrical plays; wearing rouge, jewelry, lace, or “immodest” dress; speaking disrespectfully of your betters; extravagant entertainment; swearing, gambling, playing cards, hunting, drunkenness (not that I agree with or endorse any of these or not); and the naming of children after anyone but figures in the Old Testament.
Then there is Calvin’s denouncing of reason and independent judgment: "independent" being different from his own, that is.
No less than 60 were flogged for various "offenses." Then there is the case of Michael Servetus, who ran afoul of Calvin’s theology and made the mistake of going to Geneva. He attempted to debate John Calvin, and was promptly burned at the stake.
Now the question is: if he had been wrong on so many things, should we still think that he is a good source for sound doctrine, seeing how his doctrines are ripping church congregations apart?
"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." ~Matthew 7:20
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.@dd54, @FuzzyMarineVet, So, you disagree with the examination of fruit pointed out by the article, critical of John Calvin?
dmatic
Level 8
Apr 10, 2022
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It is not John Calvin of whom I am critical, but the people who claim to follow him, but only pick out the parts of his teaching that lets them claim they are superior to others. They inhabit many mainstream churches that give lip service to Calvin's teaching but never study what Calvin wrote.
@FuzzyMarineVet OK. So, you study the fruit of what Calvin wrote? I haven't, which leaves me at a disadvantage, of course. May I ask if you agree with most of what he taught? Thanks. I'm just wondering, because the above article seems to suggest that he was a guy who was not as he wrote?
@dmatic While I agree with him that God is sovereign over creation, I do not have to fight the Papacy with my theology and I don't go to the extremes he did in describing God's sovereignty. Our God is not a petty tyrant who capriciously chooses people to be damned or saved without regard for their will. Our God is the source of love and desires love in return. Love is impossible without the will of the lover. Hence, God respects the will of humans granting grace to all who will accept it. I am not a follower of Armenios either, because he relegated God's sovereignty to the dung heap and chose to teach that grace is earned for all practical purposes. No, the teaching of the Church since Jesus ascended has always been that salvation is received when the one being saved accepts the grace to change his thinking and accept the gift of salvation from the Father through Jesus Christ. Baptism, Communion, Orders, etc. are not what saves, but are rites invoked to release the faith of one who is already saved enabling that one to live in the grace freely given by God. In other words, I am Orthodox.
@dd54 You asked for a scripture to show that when God made humanity it was good. Try Genesis 1:31. This verse follows the first passage of the creation of humans and God "saw everything He had made, and indeed, it was very good...."
@dd54 So you posit that God is not sovereign and man can undo His work?
We seem to imitate the "God" we imagine.
dmatic
Level 8
Apr 9, 2022
0
@dd54 Jesus said, "You will know what the tree is by the fruit it bears." Notice how the person acts to see if their Christianity is legit or fake. It becomes easy to spot the frauds when you apply Jesus's formula.
@dd54 The writings of Augustin are there and you can see the turnaround of his theology after he was trounced by Pelagius in a debate on free will. Prior to that Calvin, like the earlier church fathers before him, taught free will in defense against the onslaught of Gnosticism. Now we are here. As for the "fruits," we see Calvin's Manachaean Gnostic lens in reading scripture is being taught not to the lost but to bodies of Non-Calvinist believers. The result is frequently the ripping apart of congregations and families, and that's the fruit. Calvin's character and role in the then-city state of Geneva is being whitewashed. Scripture shows us that belonging to a majority or to "gated religious institutions" is not the metric for who's right. Alexandria was the hive of Gnosticized Christians while Antioch that of the persecuted church which could not even afford leather mediums for writing.
I am neither pro-free will nor anti-free will. I am pro reading and studying of scripture without using any presuppositional lens.
@eschatologyguy,@dd54, I, too, am pro reading the scriptures which is why I haven't read a lot of what so-called church fathers believed and taught. I was warned very early not to necessarily trust them, because Jesus and Paul warned of them too. I know some of the history, but am not a scholar by any means. Do you, then, agree with the above article posted or disagree about who Calvin seemed to be? Thanks
@dmatic History, especially the writings of people, should be viewed objectively and dispassionate. That is, if one is really after truth.
@dd54 Sure. Paul warned in Acts 20:29-30 "For I know this, that, after my departing, shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. ALSO< of your own selves (those that counted themselves of their own number of believers), shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them."
Jesus said: And many shall come in My Name, saying I am (He is) the Christ but will deceive MANY!
@dd54
would you please provide me the scriptures where Jesus and the Apostle Paul warned abiut the early Church Fathers for my reference please.
Acts 20:29-30
"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also OF YOUR OWN SELVES (that is, from among you - from within the church) shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEM."
Let me explain something. I am not against Calvinism's CHRISTIAN distinctives which every non-Calvinist Christian also holds. I am very much for that. What I am pointing out are the HERESIES which Augustin (wittingly or unwittingly, but more likely the former) introduced, which one can clearly see in the 180° turnaround he made in his writings after his debate with Pelagius. Instead of just sticking with scripture, he went back to his old Manachaean doctrines to defeat Pelagius in that rivalrous dynamic. And, as we all know, Calvin picked up on Augustin more than anyone else.
Manachaeanism teaches that the gods control every single thing in the world, including every single thought and act of everyone. That's where we get the pagan concept of Fate. In Calvinism, salvation is now based on FATE. They may say their doctrine is 100% God and that they honor God. But thats not scripture. That's a philosophical argument. Wouldn't it be the best way of honoring God just by simply sticking with His word?
Manachaeanism also teaches that all flesh is evil, and that only the spirit is good. That's where you get total depravity. Yet you find unsaved people doing charity, donating kidneys and risking their lives to save other people from burning buildings. What the bible says is not that we are totally depraved, but that we have all sinned and fallen short of God's standards. And because God hates sin, we are all destined for hell. As Keith had said, Calvinism (the Manachaean distinctions of Calvinism, that is - the TULIP) is not essential for salvation. Yet it is aggressively being spread to SAVED people who do not need it. Why? It is an attempt "TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEM" (Acts 20:30).
You want to avoid being deceived? Employ "hermeneutical hygeine" or the taking of passages without the adding, subtracting or the changing of words or the using of modifiers on them, like "particular," "effectual," "ineffectual" etc. calls, "prescriptive" will and "decretive" will, etc. etc. Because these pull you away from scripture and into the arena of philosophy. Play on words. Using the same vocabulary but, in a sense, having a different dictionary
You may not realize it yet, but ALL of Calvinism's proof texts are cherry picked and taken out of context to support the Christian adaptation of this pagan philosophy. Yes, ALL of the proof texts. Try watching videos that deal with particular verses you want from Beyond the Fundamentals on YouTube with an open mind.
In closing, I do not hate you or Keith nor am I attacking either of you. It is a believer's duty to expose these things (Eph 5:11)
@dd54
How about this?
2 Corinthians 11:14-15
"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
Aren't the "church fathers" ministers of righteousness? That is why we are told to "test every spirit," not swallow everything they feed us hook line and sinker.
Without TULIP, the church of Christ of today would be way more united.
@dd54 oh I most certainly do. People get stuck in paradigmatic thinking without even realizing it. Don't put your trust in man. Augustin and Calvin were just men.
@dd54 just like how a progressive sees the rest of people: conform because you are causing division.
@dd54
I cannit stand people that go round bashing oeiple and calling them heretis
I've not been "going around bashing people" as you say. Nor have I called you or anybody a heretic. I'm careful to differentiate the false teachings - the herecies - from people. Maybe you feel this way because you're so invested in Calvin. You do not need Calvin for salvation. Are you now saying Christians who do not subscribe to TULIP are not saved?
@dd54 if you trust Christ alone for your salvation then you're saved. That's what the bible says. TULIP has nothing to do with a believer'a getting saved. I hope you finally get that.
@dd54
I said if. Again TULIP doesn't save.. What saves is believing in the Gospel, not TULIP. Open your eyes. The distinctives of Calvinism - the philosophy behind TULIP - are not Christian. It not based on rightly divided Scripture. Instead, it is the wrapping of mined proof texts in cleverly worded philosophical arguments to overwhelm baby Christians into accepting these doctrines inserted by Augustin. It is the existing adaptations of the destructive doctrines Paul warned believers against. It is like the leaven of the Pharisees. It's the equivalent of rabbinic traditions in Christianity. If you want to have the guidance of church fathers, go back to Polycarp who was a disciple of John. Or to Irenaeus who was a disciple of Polycarp. They did NOT teach TULIP or its equivalent. Now ask yourself why do you need to deviate from what they taught? Or a better question: why did Augustin deviate from what they taught?
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