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True story bro

FOTD13 7 June 7
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0

Employers that don't want cheap labor won't be providing jobs in their communities for very long.
Business is not a public service or a charity, and they don't exist to pay your bills for you.
They exist to provide return for the shareholders who have risked their own money, to help create something that they hope will be profitable.
Profitable means beneficial. If you make something that does not benefit anybody (at least in their view)... then you don't sell it.

The fact that the existence of Business represents a means for you to sustain yourself, rather than being forced to figure it out on your own, is a secondary benefit both to you and to the entire community.
There's nothing more pathetic than crying about the teat, while you continue to suckle at it.
If you don't like what others have built for you, build something yourself.

rway Level 7 June 8, 2021

I guess I can't understand why minimum wage has not risen to mirror inflation. My grandfather had a high school education and was able to buy a house, car, vacations, and support a family of four as an employee at Safeway. This was as an entry level employee. Yes, he did work his way up the ladder and retired as a manager. Two degrees, two incomes, no kids and people are still having difficulty achieving the "American Dream" that my grandfather experienced, which makes it difficult to buy into the ideal of the American Dream. Alot of people support these benevolent companies and shareholders just to have health insurance. That is a whole other discussion.

@FOTD13 Sounds like he did not do all that by staying on the arbitrary "minimum wage."
You can still make a good living by making good choices, just like always.
Get a skilled Trade certification for less that $10K, and get a job starting around $80K/yr with advancement opportunities in an area of moderate cost-of-living where you can still get a house for $100K... and you're on your way up the ladder.

If you're trying to start out $100K in debt for a worthless degree, working for minimum wage (because... worthless degree), in an area where you can't find a house for less than a half-million dollars; well then, you've made some bad choices.

Government-intervention in Education, Housing, and Health Insurance is driving those things out-of-reach for everybody. And more Government-intervention, to (ostensibly) help a small percentage of the workforce "catch up", only makes it worse in the long run.

@rway I teach at a tech school and there are no entry level jobs in any of the trades we teach that start at 80,000. Maybe 45,000 and that is pushing it. The median existing home price was $295,300 in June 2020. West Virginia has the lowest median home value in the U.S. at $107,064. WV ranks forty-eighth in GDP per capita.

Why in God's name would you be fighting for the rights of corporations. They do not care about their employees, ie your family, friends, and neighbors. We continue to subsidize large corporations and they can't be bothered to pay their employes a decent wage.

I try my best to not shop at any of the big box stores. Most of that cheap crap is made in China. But everyone likes the cheap prices. Who cares if it kills small business and supports our enemy. You are right business is not a charity or public service, but they use tax payer infrastructure, tax payer military, tax payer education, not to mention bail outs and subsidies.

Greed will destroy this country. George Washington held the greatest power in the world and gave it over willingly for the betterment of his country. Be like George.

@FOTD13 Again, entry-level wages depend upon where you go. Where I live, they can't build houses fast enough because they can't find people who know how to do the various jobs; and they're offering pay accordingly. Pre-"COVID", anyway.
No matter how you try to spin it, trade school is cheaper than a 4-year gender studies degree, and pays better no matter where you go.

Corporations don't have any rights that you don't have. They also don't owe you anything.
I don't expect them to "care" about me or my family... that's weird. A corporation is an inanimate entity, not a social worker or a beer-buddy.
Do you care about them? No? ...then why would you expect them to care about you?
I expect them to respond to my input with the previously agreed-upon output (a paycheck.)

If you don't like the Government bailing them out... talk to the Government about that.
What, do you think the Corporation is going to turn it down? Would you? Did you turn-down your "stimulus" check?
That's another example of the Government intervention that I mentioned above.

@rway I wasn't spinning anything. You where pulling numbers out of thin air that suited your narrative. A very lefty thing to do. And there are more degrees than the one you stated that are worth the price of a degree. But, yes trade school is less expensive.

Corporate personhood gives rights to a business which you claim is an inanimate entity. What other inanimate entities are given personhood? I don't think the founding fathers ever imagined a business as a person with rights. Businesses used to care, as a matter of fact a lot of times they where the center of a community. Like Anchor Hocking glass company. I recommend reading Glass House: The 1% Economy and the Shattering of the All-American Town by Brian Alexander. This country is run by multi-national companies, who as you correctly pointed out, don't care about us.

@FOTD13 Hey, sorry for the late response.
I agree, "spin" wasn't the right word; "no matter how you look at it..." would have been better.
The "narrative" was that tech school costs less and produces more income than most college courses; to which you explicitly agreed, so I guess there's no argument.

My arbitrary examples were no more specifically relevant than your regional observations. There are hundreds (at least) of regional "markets" in the U.S. with their own statistics, and plenty of other factors to plug into the calculator for that type of analysis.
But median home prices are not one of them. The first-time home-buyer will probably be more interested in the availability of homes that they can afford; which, in some markets... is none at all if you've invested 4+ years and tens-of-thousands of dollars to become a documented "expert" in an unmarketable discipline.

Corporate "personhood" is a ridiculous misnomer; it does not make the corporation a person.
I'm sure we would agree that Corporations have Responsibilities to the community. Responsibilities are an attribute of personhood. Without that, they could never be held accountable for their actions as legal entities. I don't think the founders imagined a business as something that could get away with anything because it had no legal responsibilities.
The other side of that same coin is Rights; with regard to the extent to which, and the means by which, the corporation is held accountable by the community.
There is some overlap between the rights/responsibilities of a corporation, and the rights/responsibilities of a person... but that obviously does not imply that they are "the same thing".

I don't agree that any business ever "cared" about the community. That's an anthropomorphic description of self-serving behavior. Businesses often mimic "altruism", to the extent that it is good for the business itself; but even that determination is made by the people within... people who are a part of the community.
A "one-company" town is a future ghost town, it's just a matter of time. The business nurtures the community, for the same reason the community nurtures the business... out of a symbiotic mutual reliance; not because it "cares".

0

BLUF: the system in America isn’t perfect, but it’s full of opportunities if you are willing to work hard and seek better opportunities and keep moving forward. Nobody owes you a job; you have to earn it every day.

This cartoon is not an honest representation of the situation in America. I’ve been on both sides of the argument and have lived in “right to work” states and “right to hire” states. (And in good economies and bad ones).

As an adult employee, I have gladly worked for as little as $1/hr before obtaining any meaningful job experience or education (glad to obtain the experience while they paid me anything) and as high as $130k/yr after obtaining many years of experience and advanced degrees. My pay went up and down with the economy and my location, but I always had the right to accept or turn down the offers. When I was working low paying jobs I was always seeking to improve my situation by seeking other/better opportunities. It helped that I usually worked a part-time job or two along with my full time position. Some of these part time positions turned into full time, better paying positions I could shift to as I left the full time position. I usually sought another part time position as well to augment my income and to give me more future opportunities and training.

There were times I couldn’t understand why some people make millions per year and I seemed to be barely able to support the family when my wife and I (both had bachelor’s degrees) were working 132 hrs per week. (Were they that much smarter or harder working than me or working more hours? Nope, they had just figured out how to recognize opportunities and take advantage of them better than me or they had something to offer that I didn’t.) But I kept seeking better opportunities and worked my way up to being able to support my wife and daughters (just me working) and even retired a few years after they completed college when I was in my early 50s. Of course I had to make lots of sacrifices along the way and I still only sleep 3-5 hrs per night on average and my health is not the best anymore, but life is good. The key is to ensure you are offering a service or product that has more value than it costs and be flexible and mobile.

ONLY IN AMERICA! Life is great (at least it beats the alternative). A positive attitude goes a long way.

1

Employees are being ripped off and the government help this fraud

1

I've always sucked at identifying good hires. Most I've weren't worth what it cost to figure out they sucked worse at making stuff than I do at identifying good hires.

govols Level 8 June 7, 2021
1

It's the story of US immigration laws, too!

sqeptiq Level 10 June 7, 2021
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