Well, to be honest the attitude has been growing over the past 10-15 years of observation and has culminated in the current environment that exists at many Universities all over the country. I think that many on this site would have encouraged a college education just 10 yrs ago, but would encourage a trade school over a 4-yr degree now. The new attitude is due to many changes, not just one.

1. When gov't got involved in educational loans, then tuition sky-rocketed to unbelievable levels and then you find out that some of these professors are making $500K/year and that's just mind-boggling, so as with so many other programs -- the more "free" money is made available, the more demand there is for more and more. Have you taken a look at the type of "research" some of these universities are funding now that the gov't is providing such easy loans? Then the "interest" on such non-secured loans is so high that they're onerous to the extreme, so now we're at the cross-roads where many are demanding that the education be made "free". Do you think that the professors will be willing to take less money if the education is "free" to the students? Will they limit their research to more expedient studies that would actually be beneficial? Sure, that's going to happen....

2. Most parents, at least those who truly want what's best for their children, recognize that the university experience means being exposed to "new ideas", "new experiences", and "different viewpoints". However, the current environment means that their children are ONLY being exposed to "leftist ideas", "leftist experiences", and "leftist viewpoints". Are parents really supposed to want to PAY for a one-sided viewpoint? It sounds like you had an interesting education when you went to college, but it also sounds like it was a few years ago. Do you realize that kids are now being failed if they dare to express a viewpoint that is contrary to the professors? That they're being told that they're wrong and shamed in front of everyone in the class to force them to comply? Many are just going along with it to get their degree and just not voicing their disagreement, but this behavior is just wrong and the universities are complicit. Did you know that now they have to take a Privilege Test to prove to them how privileged they are upon entrance as Freshmen? Yeah, I'd want to PAY for that treatment. Did you know that they've added "privilege questions" to the SAT to provide a so-called "adversity score"?

When "classical liberals" or "conservative" speakers try to go and speak at universities, the leftist professors, students, and antifa threaten the speakers and/or those who want to listen to them. Yeah, I'd want to PAY for that behavior -- let's take away free speech, it's no big deal!!!

Then you have incidents like what happened at Evergreen College to Professor Bret Weinstein.

And the Gibson's Bakery vs Oberlin College experience.

And so many more....

I honestly do not understand how any parent can support these colleges after these episodes. I really cannot understand it at all.

3. On top of this, we've had to deal with the "graduates" of these colleges/universities in the work place. Do I really have to explain how unimpressed we have been?

At this point, I guess all that's left is to ask how you can still think paying for the "privilege" is a good idea? I do think for certain areas -- basically, just STEM areas -- a degree is still worthwhile; however, I'd recommend going to a community college that has an agreement with the university to begin with and do everything possible to LIMIT the amount of time/credits that require the university tuition. For anything outside of STEM, it's just not worth the $ or the CRAP that comes with it.

@locallan a community college was where i was encouraging my dad to give ot a go..

i kinda get what you are saying, as we have warned my neices and nephew to be wary of taking on all that debt straight outta highschool and to take some time to figure out your compass and try to get jobs in their chosen sectors to see if it is as interesting as they dreamed.

what about trade scools? i did not realize they are so inequitable.

many colleges have trade schools. or schools of applied sciences. you can audit those classes as well.

@CuriousFury

Trade schools are a different breed of animal.

But of course you know this.

But again, why would anyone, especially advanced in years, go to a trade school, or take "applied science" classes, if they aren't interested?

Waste of cash IMO.

oh hell, i can spend an afternoon in any college library and peruse any book i want, and have in years past, or check them out if i feel.

alot less effort.

i really don't seeing how shooting your mouth off about the worthless value of a degree is going to endeer yourself to your college educated children...after expressing desire to be able to achieve similar results as the person having taken studies achieved.

@CuriousFury you have a serious attitude issue, I have a master's degree, but have never snubbed my nose at different paths to knowledge .... and going the less expensive route is always smarter ... just common sense, not obtained at college ... plus some people have to work while they go to school, a lot more effort ...

@RCGibb uh, you may have taken my post wrong. i believe you pointed out alternate sources of garhering knowledge, since i thought it was just adding another cheap readily available resourse to the mix.

many people still prefer books to screens.
i was chuckling in agreement and most of what i know did not come from school, but in private study.

the you was misused and you may have taken it directly. that was not my intent.

i slipped into addressing those that may be reading it. and have been programmed to spew "fuck school".

there are alot of those about

not you specifically.

apologies

see you on the bulletin board

@RCGibb and it is unfortunately much worse than an attitude problem. i hear in some circles those can just be fixed by getting punched in the face.

my problem is not so cheap to correct.

i have seen it. i went for credit and wanted the knowledge. i wasnt going to let off topic rants rob me of a day i paid for.

you know ask em, "how does this tie in with the literature, please. so i can understand your conclusion?

i knew a class was fucked, if after buying the book,. the teacher only refered to it on the first day. by stating" this will be all that you need to know from this book. here is some recommended reading."

and an offhanded pat on the back for saving some weight to carry around.

thanks for the lovely reply.

shoes

its just kinda tough when youre asked how they're laced, and then on picking them up , proclaiming they don't fit, without even dropping a heal in.

the tough is exhausting when the conversation has been going on for years, and its time to burn the boots.

@CuriousFury
Probably means it's just talk. No intent on anything new. Just wants to have some kind of conversation, any kind of conversation maybe. Probably his way of connecting or something.

It's hard for those of us who hear/see problems and want solve them. Some folks don't want answers to their questions/problems. They're just rhetorical.

But that's all just a guess.

@Clarken most certainly you are correct. i am more of a less talktalk more walkwalk type of guy.

we can shoot the shit along the way.

he should know it. he taught it.

i didnt have a pension. and i wanted to make sure that i didnt burn a house down or electricute myself or harm anyone.

it made more sense to me to spike the learning curve.

initially it was to only take a couple different classes on some hobbies. then i realized how nieve i was to think i could figure out some of the stuff i learned on my own.

@CuriousFury
I realize some stuff is just beyond me so I know when to hire a professional (mechanics, electricians, plumbers, CPA for taxes).

@Clarken welding, blacksmithing,

@Clarken this was kina before youtube and that forged in fire show.

i would do it again. turns out, i hapoened to be in one of only 3 blacksmithing programs at the time(was artsy but not as much as you think) in the nation. i just split my courseload between welding and blacksmithing.

i had worked in residential constructiin and material handling system installations up to that point.i had the fabrication skills already.
i thought i knew some shit. turned out it was jack shit.

@Clarken and part of the program required some introductory classes for cad drafting and cost analysis. both i had been hoping to eventually get into..

honestly all my secret desires were being adressed i. the program and went all in from the point of that realization.

@Clarken i was tired of figuring things out on the fly. and that i was really gambling if i moved forward on my own, but i was having to pick up mettalurgical chemestry and physics. and my only formal training in the past was in the biologies.

it was kind of a tug to get my brain wrapped arround the atomic forces going on.

you guys educations must have sucked. i went ti college and 80% of my classes were practicals. i stood on my feet nearly the whole time. and i put the professors on blast when i heard inappropriate political conversations trying to be spliced in. didnt get expelled, though me and several of my professors had to agree to disagree in private. in the classroom though, usually the professor would have to drop the rhetoric because i would always counter with the same fallacies but different position. they get tired of it and just push on through with the facts.

@CuriousFury this reminds of a History class - the "prof" was younger than I...he started spewing some nonsense about how a POTUS would put American soldiers in harms way for political expediency...I started shaking my head - he paused and asked me why I was shaking my head - I said I could never be so cynical to believe any POTUS Dem or repube could be so corrupt as to do something like that. He got this surprised and uncomfortable look on his face and then switched back to teaching History.
I will say however that since that time I have changed my mind about that. I do believe Bill Clinton, both Bushes and Barack Obama are guilty of doing exactly that thing.

@iThink i had a professor start spewing veteran brainwashing.

i typed all night.

the professor told me that he would not bring the military up again. that it was over but that if i continued he would expell me from class. we stuck to the agreement and i took 5 more of his classes because of his excellence and wisdom for the subject at hand and we did not clash after that.. it was never talked about again in those years. i respected him for that.

@CuriousFury In general, at the time and place I went to university, all they did was teach things they knew. They'd point out clearly if anything was conjecture, and they'd lose their jobs or at least be disciplined if they tried to teach political rhetoric. Biases crept in occasionally, but they always checked themselves before becoming openly political. There was a clear respect for diversity...real diversity...which is diversity of opinion. Skin color, sexuality...that's all peripheral bullshit matters not a whit...diversity of thought is the core of diversity.

Like you, I spent most of my time in practical courses and did not really have a lot ot time for airy fairy nonsense. But I also didn't have the time or patience to "reschool" professors as you did, as I also had to work my way through university over a period of six years and already had a child by the time I graduated.

So I think that's what it boils down to. As you get older, you just start getting the feeling you don't have time to mess with what is clearly ideological nonsense. Convincing ideologues their core ideology is wrong...be they Christians or post modern interesctionalists...is at the very least a long term commitment that I don't feel is worth the investment.

Besides, the Great Courses on Audible and any number of YouTube lectures are available to teach me the material. I suppose if I just wanted to troll the woke loonies, it might be an idea. But as far as gaining knowledge...there are better places available now than college campuses, available free or at a fraction of the cost of campus courses without any of the protesters, parking hassles or fees. Why put up with all the neo Puritanism and intentional race and gender baiting if you don't have to? Why have to set through 45 minutes of indoctrination to hear 15 minutes of truth when the truth can be had elsewhere? If I'm supposed to be learning from "experts" then I really don't want to spend my time arguing with them. It devalues what they teach me, makes me question everything I learn. If I'm constantly having to question and pick apart their lectures. I have to exert energy that I don't have to trying to determine truth of fantasy when there are dozens more delivery systems for the same information that are far more user friendly than indoctrinated profs on campus.

Were I 20....if I thought this insanity was going to shape the world around me, particularly my job opportunities (as cancel culture certainly does), then I would fight like my happiness depended on it..because it would. But it is the next generations fight...they will either keep their freedoms, or they will hand them over to Marxist "intellectuals" with an agenda. It's really up to you guys what you choose in the end.

@fewlme1ce23 ehh, i went in my 30's, did my best to full time work as well. i really never aired it out in class to much, just enough to let em know i heard that. i was not there tk derail others education or my own.

i usually aproched the professors privately if i actually had a grievance. i really never brought a shit slinging match into a classroom, since i am civilized.

most of my classmates probably didnt even know what was going on.

Yes, we are. Free classes destroy free thinking.

yeah, the golden years of social security are so glamorous.

@CuriousFury no one is saying its glamorous...it is what you make of it and to voluntarily sit in on an indoctrination lecture seems like a terrible waste of time when you could be spending your childrens inheritance on travelling, taking flying lessons and buying a small airplane...helping out at a Trump rally - I understand those are a lot of fun and you meet a lot of nice people doing that! ha!

@iThink i can only imagine.

@CuriousFury BTW I'm an old guy myself.

@iThink figured. these places are like wagon trains.

i didnt suggest a degree. he was expressing wanting to learn a new skill.
i don't see how 6 hrs a week for 4 months is going to ruin his golden years.

though i do agree that college students ofyen get their golden years ruined by attending college as a youth.

@CuriousFury so what is or where is the "learned skill" in sitting through lectures on social justice and orange man bad...LOL - this is an idea that appeals to you. Not to your father. Respect his spoken preference and stop accusing him of being "fragile and close minded" - ya ungrateful twerp! LOL

they are teenagers.

so difficulty to think about anything other than political manipulations when in public? sounds like a conspiracy addiction to me.

@CuriousFury yes they are. 3 or four is about anyone's limit.

Naw, he's probably just to the teeth with fascist little mouthbreathers who think their shit don't stink, and are as capable of "free thought" as he is of docking an aircraft carrier. As for the "positive influence", he raised you. I expect the disappointment in that outcome likely carries over to trying to get complete strangers who have already been marinated in the US educational system to think their way out of a paper bag.

so disrespectful

@iThink iguess. you probably wouldnt defend him so much if there were recordings of him just screaming insults because i don't like the person he clicked the button for.

@CuriousFury I hope you understand my comments are somewhat tongue in cheek.

@iThink you know how it is. with family tongue in cheek hits like face in palms.

@Worried_Monkey his disapointment is only his own.

as for you, pooh sniffer, check your shorts before walking into the primate exibibit before screaming about the smell.

whats up did i ring the gong on you?

some ones feelings are hurt. you ok snowfake

@CuriousFury Heh, heh -- touched a nerve, did I? I'll try not to jerk your thong so hard next time, sweetie.

@Worried_Monkey no, don't worry, dumplin'. i have a headache... maybe another time.