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The following was a post I had done on another site, and thought I'd share it here now. Keep an open mind in regards to any points mentioned and then draw your own conclusions.

Over the years I've sat back and observed how others around me react when the topic of politics comes up (referring to American politics here), and have often wondered to myself if politics is perhaps the thing that divides us more than any other topic. From the beginning of American politics there have always been disagreements among the politicians, but within the last three or so years I've never before witnessed such hate and animosity among my fellow Americans, we are more divided now than ever. That got me thinking a little deeper as to what exactly is the reason behind such, namely is it actually politics directly that is creating such a rift or is there another contributing factor?

Could it be the attitudes of people nowadays that are a big contributing factor to the hostile political scene rather than the politics per se? I suspect that could be the case. During the time Kennedy was President and before, people thought very differently than they do nowadays. Back then there appeared to be a unified attitude among most, when a problem presented itself people stuck together to solve it and in the process set aside any differences they may have had (think Great Depression and even World War 2). Grant it, the "good old days" were not always so good, in particular to minorities who faced constant discrimination. With that said, that still doesn't remove the fact that people back then showed a willingness to work together to solve problems, unlike nowadays with the endless finger pointing and ad hominem attacks, small wonder why at times it seems Congress hardly accomplishes anything meaningful.

One of the biggest arguments I hear in politics nowadays is the fight between which is better for society, socialism or capitalism. Before I go deeper into that, just want to point out at present time the US has a mixture of social programs and free market capitalism. With that said, I'd say the latter of those has gotten an unfair negative rap. I think opponents of capitalism cite crony capitalism as an example to demonstrate capitalism's perceived inferiority to socialism, and that's neither fair or accurate. Capitalism has lifted more out of poverty than socialism ever has, and I speak from experience on that. I come from a family of businesspeople, four businesses to be exact and all of which were successful in their day. My maternal grandfather was born into a poor Italian immigrant family and well into his twenties he remained poor. Not long after he married and had a few kids, he decided on going into business for himself and started an Italian sandwich shop. His business was successful for years (up until the time of his death and the family business sold) and in a rather short amount of time he had saved up enough money to move his family into a brand new home. He started out with very little, and in a few years time he became rather wealthy. Although he accumulated wealth, my grandfather was not a selfish man and donated money to quite a few local charities, and also made sure hungry people were fed, especially around the holidays. He wasn't my only family member who thought and acted like that, any of them that owned a business did what they could to give back and help others in their community. This notion that all capitalists are greedy and self-centered is plain wrong. Socialism on the other hand, while maybe helping out those in dire immediate need sometimes, keeps far too many dependent upon the government in order to survive, and some of the social welfare programs are being abused by those who are gaming the system by going on disability when they really don't have to or purposely not getting married and having kids in order to collect food stamps. Why are these obvious abuses of the system not a concern among those who disdain capitalism? If they want to complain about crony capitalism fine, but the needless waste of taxpayer dollars should be equally concerning, afterall an abuse is an abuse.

Getting back now to my original thought, is politics directly the cause for so much division or is it more complex than what we see on the surface? The socialism versus capitalism argument is a big one, but I think more directly the contributing factor to division lies in the attitudes of the people and specifically how they view each other when political views are shared. These days it's common to hear insults from both sides, those capitalists are evil people who only care about themselves and those socialists are nothing more than commies in disguise etc, and on and on it goes with no conceivable end in sight. Most of my family are registered Democrats, and they are all fine with me identifying as a right-leaning capitalist, and I've found that as long as no insults or personal remarks are made I can hold decent conversations with them and they with me despite our differences in opinion. That's what leads me to believe the real problem is lack of communication and by extension understanding, in other words the attitude people take.

Like I mentioned before at one time people worked together despite their differences to solve problems, and that's what seems to be missing these days. There is no shortage of enthusiasm for criticism, but not enough criticism for said enthusiasm. We've found ourselves in quite a vicious cycle, and I don't foresee things to be improving anytime soon, it's not too late though. I'm sure most of what I shared above will fall on deaf ears, but it might encourage some to stop and think about it and perhaps maybe try a different approach. All I know is something has to give eventually, and when it finally does it will be a very dark time for all of us.

SpikeTalon 10 Apr 5
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1

I have always been surrounded by every level of thoughts and "sides". raised Roman Catholic but knew teenagers that were gay (and this was the 70's) our suburb was tree hugger to staunch capitalist, pot smoker, to tea totaler. i remember a political debate in 6th grade concerning the presidential candidates and the teacher had no problem finding dedicated debaters for both sides. i have had some amazing discussions with extended family members about everything from immigration (i am second generation American) pro's and cons of the Berlin wall coming down (jobs were going to east Germans for lower wages - we had family on both sides)
my father was a computer specialist, my mother a home maker. public school education for most of our 12 years.i don't remember any "hatred" of a president/governor/congressman like it is voiced loudly today. the nightly news brought us a story and the daily newspaper gave more details, not the complete difference of "the facts"
i find myself looking into every event and wishing i could just stay ignorant, it would be much easier. this gives birth to the next problem - who do i show the information i have gathered, will it be looked on as helpful or just tossed in my face as "what ever word is for the other side at the time"
all of the above is political
thankfully i am surrounded by people who do help their neighbors, look out for the other guy, help pick up pieces of some ones disaster. i turn a blind eye to those that walk away mumbling about "not my problem".
we all need to communicate better, i do better with action since i tend to ramble (as noted above). i have passed this trait to my daughter but i watch as they are pulling back from the step forward volunteer and have started watching from the sidelines....

this is my greatest worry. the people who can Lead, the people who have strong voices and information to back it up must be found and pushed forward. i will keep looking for them, and sharing their message - hopefully they are strong enough to cut through the heavy blanket of BS (i am a cup half full optimist, hopefully i live long enough to see the American Spirit grow bright "AGAIN"

2

If you and your family are able to have "decent conversations" about politics then I have to say that I'm impressed. I finally asked my brother a year or so ago where his political leanings were now-a-days and he told me he was liberal and I was rather shocked. He went on to tell me that he does extensive research and likes to read diary-type reports of day-to-day reports (or something like that, I didn't totally follow what he meant there). He then went on though to give me the standard MSM lines of argument for the left. I was stymied, just totally thrown for a loop -- my mouth was open and I was just starring at him. Yet, when I listen to him talking with his children or just talking about life -- he is for people stepping up and being responsible, he is for logic over emotion, and tells his daughters that he just can't deal with them when they want to place FEELINGS over logical thought.

I've been amazed by the areas where I can have intelligent conversations with people who consider themselves Democrat, but then turn around and be faced with total ignorance and idiocy on other topics, where they just buy-in to the MSM tag lines.

And I think that is one of the biggest issues. It's like they can't see that the issues are coming from the left -- they refuse to see it, so therefore it's not happening and therefore they can continue to vote Democrat in good conscience.

It's not just socialism vs capitalism. One of the biggest is IDENTITY POLITICS. I know of NOONE who approves or backs identity politics when sitting down and having a logical discussion, but does your family understand and AGREE that this lunacy is coming from the left? If so, how can they continue to VOTE for it? It seems to be more of a mob mentality. Some of my friends have kids who decide to go to some of the rainbow coalition marches and come home spouting nonsense about identity politics and their parents have to wait for them to calm down and then try to have a rational discussion with them -- they end up agreeing that logically they shouldn't be forcing their views on others, but as soon as they're back in contact with the fringe extreme, then they just jump right back in agreeing with the mob. This threat to free speech and parenthood and family is coming from the LEFT, so how can they continue to support the Democratic party? How can they support giving hormone suppressants to juveniles? How can they support taking children away from parents because they don't want to give hormone suppressants to their children? How can they support parents encouraging and enabling their children to be transvestites and dance in strip clubs with strippers behind them? How can they support DCS saying this is totally appropriate parenting, yet taking children away from parents who don't want their children's fantasies catered to in the extreme?

ABORTION. I've had a number of conservatives essentially tell me that since Rowe vs Wade will never be repealed then it shouldn't be considered an issue anymore and are using this as an excuse to vote democrat because they hate Trump. Yet, to me, there has never been a more serious time to stand against abortion. With 24 states allowing late-term abortions and talk of aborting babies after birth -- this has gone way too far. Way PAST Rowe vs Wade and it needs to be stopped. The left is ignoring Rowe vs Wade and making it into an expansive acceptance of abortion wide-scale. How anyone can vote for the party that is pushing for abortion on demand? Pushing for abortion while in labor? I simply don't understand how this is being shrugged off, like it's simply not important.

Those are probably my biggest issues and when a Democrat agrees with me on these issues, then I just look at them like they're loony-toons. If you AGREE, then how can you vote Democrat? I don't understand. At all.

3

When discussing a disagreement, it’s important to ask ourselves these questions...

  1. Could I be wrong? I don't need to BE right and I don’t want to believe what I “think” is right, but what IS right.
  2. Why does the other person think this way? What's his or her perspective or mindset leading him or her to draw this conclusion ? 3. How can I communicate most effectively with this person?.
    It’s the only sensible approach to reasoned debate.
1

Truth. I love it. And I have also perceived this.

1

It used to be that one side thought the other was ignorant, old fashioned, stuck in their ways; the other that their foes were unrealistic, idealistic, and lacking a regard for the natural limitations among humans.

Through a process of escalation both sides now think the other is evil, and allowing the enemy to hold power is suicide.

Politics is about moving public opinion and maintaining an illusion that elections matter. The actual managerial class in power doesn't really allow politics to get in their way, nor is it accountable to the public. The "public conversation" has become so vile simply because it really doesn't matter any longer. The powers that be don't care that we're at each others' throats. That's feature to them rather than a bug. It keeps the pitchforks in the barn, or at least not pointed toward the beautiful ones who actually rule.

5

Today’s “Politics” and “Politicians” tend to be divisive.
The DemLeft (“Takers” ) has decided to be the party that “buys” votes with massive “giveaways” to people who will vote for anything that “gives” them “free stuff” (Takers) ... a lot of RINO Republicans, seeing that its effective ... and easier ... climbed onto that wagon.
They use and hold up Capitalists (Makers) as the Whipping Boy ... the Greedy Leech ... as the example of everything thats wrong ... They are “unwilling” to “Give” to be “Charitable”.

They very conveniently ignore the fact that ALL of the largess they seek to bestow on the “Takers” comes from the Hands, Pockets and Labors of the “Makers”.

Too many people who really should know better have become so used to these “Taker” Programs that they no longer see them for what they are.
I’ve had conversations with these people who, in the course of a relatively short conversation, will gripe bitterly about their “Taxes” while speaking very supportively about various “Social Programs” and COMPLETELY FAIL to see that they are COMPLETELY INTERTWINED... Related.

I agree sir.

This is "The Truth About Critical Social Justice"

The key term is "Critical." This is an actual tactic practiced by the Left, and that is the actual cause of the division in society. It is intentional.

@TimTuolomne
That was interesting ... thankfully I had a couple days worth of dishes that needed washing ...
Thanks

@Bay0Wulf, Yeah, its long, but you can see why. Its so unbelievable that any group would intentionally dissolve stable society, that it needs deliberate unpacking, right?

@TimTuolomne
Well, I don’t think its really all that “unbelievable” as such things have been attempted and/or done repeatedly throughout history.

My problem is finding someone that I can point to as an example having assembled it into a cogent thought process that doesn’t take so much time that I have consumed a couple gallons of Guinness ... and some Jameson ... and find myself expounding on the topic from the floor under the table ...
Because ... that not only costs a lot but usually the ears have become too sodden to follow the thought process but ... usually becomes paraphrased back to me at times as sort of a tease ...

At least I know I’m “getting through” to some greater or lesser extent

@Bay0Wulf. I can relate. I have found very often that keeping it simple doesn't work either. People whose freedom has long been relegated to the trash heap are completely unaware of it, so my pointing it out makes no sense to them.

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