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Keep an open mind on this please before jumping to any conclusions.

Should christians pray for our soldiers?
[thelibertarianrepublic.com]

The part in the article about praying doesn't concern me, Mr Combs other points did.

SpikeTalon 10 Jan 27
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The problem is you can never be sure of what might of been or what will be. That however is not the way I read the Christian doctrine. Christian dogma is not about situational ethics or relative morality.

Before it became a religion in it's own right Christianity seems to have been reformed Judaism. Judaism of course is alien to most Christians because it is focused on Tribalism. You can accept the Jewish teacher who say this is a misinterpretation but I don't think so. It grew out of semi nomadic people's exposure to more advanced civilization and picked up bits and peaces as it went along. Eventually being formalized as it settled in cities which allowed a scribe class to develop. A scribe class that promoted a justification for the culture to exist and propagate through strict policies on reproduction and maternal lines. Maternal lines allow for strict control of outbreeding as paternity tends to be uncertain. This extreme form of extended tribalism seems to have been a product of being stuck between more powerful neighbors. That is how you originate a theocracy where God and tribe are one and the same. It is a great evolutionary strategy for group selection.

By the time Christianity came along Jewish tribalism was suppressed by the Romans. Self rule was a dream that seemed unlikely. Christianities answer was to replace the earthly nature of Judaism with a more abstract spiritual escatological orientation. Instead of focusing on a strategy of group selection it focused on individual salvation. It no longer need to have strong tribal and ethnic restrictions on inclusion.

Where Judaism needed an army to exist reformed Judaism in the form of Christianity only needed a meme to propagate. And propagate it did, eventual taking over the Roman world as the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Even though it was in a way Rome in disguise it hung on to some of it's escatological orgins. The Roman version was as secular as it's Jewish ancestor but since it originated in a literate society it was hard to hide most of the original teachings. Because those teaching were escatological they were not secular in the least. Being only concerned with the next life, as escatological teaching are want to do, the original dogma was extremely passive. I see no way that those original teachings could in anyway condone any kind of violence let alone warfare.

If you want to be a cynic you could say that the last Christian died on the cross. That is certainly the way a materalistic determinist would view the history of Christianity if they would even grant that Christ was a historical figure. I'm not that cynical. Christianity like Buddhism is passive but they differ in that Buddhism grew up in a culture where heaven and hell were not clear concepts. It's not even clear that Buddhism orginated as a religion from a Western perspective. They both however offer some sort of "spiritual" grounding for the individual or a kind of internal peace. Praying for warriors seems at odds with that perspective to me. That said both grew into state religions in various places. Buddhist warrior monks and Knight Templars could be seen as having a similarity. Within the evolved religious context and ignoring the original teachings praying for warriors is consistent with cultural norms for Christianity.

I'm neither a Christian nor a multiculturalist. I'm a cultural bigot. I like the enlightment and science, great works of art and cathedrals, Greek philosophers and Roman republicanism. I appreciate the philosophy of peaceful coexistance that Christianity provides as well as it's concern for the poor. Liberal Democracy I believe is the best form of government. All of these things I consider worth "praying" for and defending. If praying for the warriors who defend these things brings them comfort then by all means pray for them.

There is a kind of pseudo sophistication I find sophomoric but is practiced by highly intelligent people. It is impossible for it's practitioners to see that the perfect is the enemy of the good. A lot of the criticism of U.S. foreign policy can be seen in this light. I see U.S. foreign policy as a less brutal analogy to Pax Romana. Not as a result of Gods blessings or endorsement but along the lines of what Steven Pinker wrote about in the Better Angels of Our Nature. Civilization has become more civilized as it has evolved. The question is always compared to what. I guess I believe in relative morality but that is a hard case to make and even harder to practice.

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anyone can pray for anything or anyone else they like - seems to be a wholly private matter. maybe the question is should people who wish to pray be prohibited doing so in public or in some way drawing attention to the fact they they are praying. Should anyone be prohibited calling out to others for prayers.
Of course I would say no one should be prohibited saying anything they wish to say period whether in the form of prayer or anything else.
I always and consistently say "let the 1st amendment reign supreme"

Sounds reasonable.

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And congratulations for raising such a fascinating topic. May health debate follow. Always good to get wide ranges of views.

That it is. I post as much as I do in the hopes of either starting conversations or getting others to think deeper.

@SpikeTalon This one is stirring up thought and comment so well done.

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"America needs to reorganize its military forces in lieu of building giant temples (bloated military budgets), and design a military force structure needed to defend the USA sans extensive foreign debacles"
.I'm not an American, so the way you and I look at things has a different filter. From what I can see, Americans largely have the attitude expressed by "Thank-you for your service, and for keeping America free." But as an outsider, to some extent many of the wars the US has been engaged in seem to have somewhat dubious reasons for being involved in, .and little to do with freedom. It is not hard to believe that maybe the US arms merchants encourage your leaders to be involved in wars, for reasons other than keeping the world safe. It's not hard to believe that after the first two world wars it became an extremely lucrative industry, but only if the stockpiled weapons, munitions, etc are actually used.

Timor, Bougainville Falklands, Afghanistan, Desert storm - Our Kiwi record looks less than enviable, But the focus should be on the politicians, This blames the personal, and in that the author misses the point.

Remember fighter pilots are officers who look down on you as they go over, they are only welcome when in a chopper to pull your ass out of the fire.

It's true the US had been a bit of a world police force, But that's because the UN became a lame duck, and the rest of the world thought talking would work, Until the fan was not only hit, It was Chock full, and deeply buried.

Mind you we were not "as" criticised when we use the same training to extract people, or recover bodies from the christchurch earthquake. Small mercies I Guess

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I am a retired combat veteran, NZ, who has treated field injured personal, Has bullet holes in his body, and has never once been in an active war. ( we live in a safe benign part of the world - Our PM said So) So forgive me If I get personal, and maybe a little emotional. I'll try to stay on topic.

I have helped build water treatment stations, provide medical aid, established basic communication and power infrastructure to regions torn apart by civil war and warlords and mostly under UN banners, reclaimed land, and liberated captives. And yes I have taken life. The last one, I did on my own.

The Bullets, that came at us, did not seem to care if a war had been declared or not, the holes they made in my friends and fellows, were the same as I had trained for in War. The innocents did not stay innocent, they saw the horrors of power struggles and watch the dignity of humans destroyed by power mad despots, we restored order, and help re-establish law.

When I returned I did not get war medals, I did not get citations, ( I did get some ribbons and one medal, But I don't wear it, as I don't have too) I do not talk about the experience(s) much, as I am constantly reminded by lefty liberals, that we were unwanted, unwelcome, warmongers who disturbed the peace of their societies.

Some nights I cannot sleep, Call it PTSD, or just remembering the "Stuff" that went down, It makes no difference, to me anyway. But when I am told that it was a waste of time, that we did not good... I wish I could drop those dichheads into that Hot zone, and let them preach to the "gentle folk" who were shooting at us, (probably in defense) and had already shot up the village, to get a few resources, and a "Good time" with the local women. But we were the aggressors.

Pray or Pray not - I don't care, But do deployed persons need your support and understanding yes. They need it more than you can ever know

For those who come back, they did not cause the conflict, we, right or wrong, did our best. We hoped you could be proud of us. But most times now, I wish you were less ashamed of us. If you have a problem, don't aim at the troops on the ground, Go for the policy makers. We made the effort, We made mistakes, But mostly we made a difference, And we still try to do the same

The Political elite, sat in a warm room, with good food, and made "Tactical calls" they carry the can for those decisions. I need only give account for my actions, and if I followed the rules of engagement. I will not feel shame for what I did, for I did what I had to, and I did it well.

But these discussions do nothing to help those are overseas, but your support for their efforts, your thanks you, Your prayers, your welcome home. Is worth more than anything. You will never understand, But if the few times I have served with other service personal is a guide, you should be proud, and the ones who were an embarrassment, They are the exception, Not the rule.

Peace is worth striving for, But while there are bullies in our schools, communities and thus world, we will need to keep deploying those who can send the message they understand. Our Gang is bigger, Better equipped, and ready to do the right thing. Pull your head in, or face the consequence.

I am not the least bit embarrassed by people like you nor am I with any other service member. I just think we should consolidate our resources and stop with the aiding foreign countries so much. You are right, the problem is not with our military, but with the politicians who make these decisions. Can't say I believe in prayer, but I do think about those overseas who are paying the ultimate price due to the decisions from politicians.

Thank you for sharing your story by the way.

@SpikeTalon Fair, But there are times when great evil arises, and we need to ask ourselves if it's actually ok to sit this one out. The military exists because history tells us evil will arise. And When I does you will be praying for a well equipped, fighting fit force. It's a bit late to prepare after your first firefight

@The_Q I have no qualms with military might in foreign countries if the situation truly warrants such. For example, when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, military action was certainly justified and Japan paid a steep price for their actions...

Regarding your comment on peace... peace is fine to pursue, but peace among everyone is a utopian dream though. Pacifism is for the weak, indeed, always good to be prepared.

@SpikeTalon True, and many still wonder why America was so unwilling to get involved in Europe's war until then. How different may it have been, if America had joined with the UK earlier. Like the Eagle Squadrons many of whom left the military to join the war.

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Anyone ever notice how many consider the US as an unnecessary force until the enemy is knocking at their door? As for needing a smaller military...with all the nuclear weapons and capabilities out there I for one thank President Trump for building ours back up.

I don't object to a strong military, I just think we should concentrate more on consolidating our resources within our own country and stop spreading out so much in bases in foreign countries. Our needs should come first, not the needs of foreign countries.

@SpikeTalon those bases on foreign soil are a necessary part of force projection and quick strike ability. I am a Marine. Not on active duty, haven't been for some time. I do agree that some of the conflicts we've been a part of probably didn't need to happen. I honestly think Afganistan is a mistake. But as was said earlier, the UN is toothless. And a joke in general. I think it should be disbanded completely. So, who is going to defend those smaller, weaker countries? The EU can't. Do we REALLY want China and Russia being that force? I know it sounds imperialistic. I know it sounds pretentious. And in some ways it is. But in a lot of places, the only thing keeping predatory factions at bay is either US forces, or that threat of force.

@3percent You kind of answered your own question there. I say let others fight their own battles, and throughout history weaker nations were sadly absorbed by the stronger ones. You do raise a valid point though when it comes to quick strikes. To balance that, maybe have some foreign bases, while shifting a bit more focus in protecting our own assets. I can't help to think that if that were the case, maybe 9/11 would not have happened, worry a bit more about defending our home land...

@SpikeTalon you also just stated that through out history weaker countries are absorbed by the weaker..that's what Hitler did causing WWII. Sitting back remaining involved until we were attacked here cost 131,028,000 lives and in today's financial market world have cost 4.1 trillion. Sometimes you have to learn from the past. If you take a look you will also find where we are most militarily active are close to nuclear power or nuclear threat. When you look at what our military is doing I believe they are defending our home land. I'd much rather have one of our missiles destroying a nuke over there and not in our back yard.

@Dmwils The only problem with that is, how can you accurately predict that another country will attack? How could anyone have predicted Japan doing what they did at Pearl Harbor? Also, spreading our armed forces out in other countries did absolutely nothing to prevent 9/11, so I must disagree with you on that. If our armed forces were doing what you described, then 9/11 should never have happened, but that's what happens when you worry about what other countries are doing and not worry enough about what's happening in the homeland...

@SpikeTalon I would not bank all your arguments on 9/11...the reason I say that is pretty simple..the US had info on these terrorists they just never believed they would actually take action on American soil. The morning following 9/11 the FBI had all the info on those terrorists and way too much info they could never have pulled together in 24 hours without advance knowledge. There is a lot of surveillance equipment we don't even know exists.

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Christians should pray for everyone.

Not being cute, being honest.

I should add, the nations considering the U.S. a Usurper or anything else negative, are usually near the top of any emergency, or statutory aide packages, or regularly lop the heads off of opponents.

@DonProvolone Israel doesn't consider the US a usurper, and they are needy as hell...
I get your point though.

@SpikeTalon

Indeed.

To Israel, we're the Golden Calf.

@DonProvolone Israel is a whole different situation. They legitimately NEED the rest of their neighbors to know the US is backing them, or that country would disappear in a heartbeat.

@3percent
I don't care, and for the sake of my comments, and the OP, it matters not.

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