So, you don't have an example.

Do feel all agency regulations are unconstitutional?

@Facci

No, just the ones that change the law without legislative oversight.

@EdNason

Yet trump is the one who called on them to bypass legislation.

@EdNason

No, I never claimed that. This goes beyond executive order. This is a situation where law on the books has had a single definition since it's inception. Trump called on the ATF to change that definition and they gleefully obeyed.

Are saying that since others have done such things then it makes it ok?

@EdNason

Give me an instance

Federal agencies such as the EPA, and the IRS create law through regulation and I will accept the permise that any regulation not voted on specifically in Congress is unconstitutional, but the fact that a bump stock is not a fire arm in itself, in my mind, disqualifies the regulation as unconstitutional. Many things are illegal for many reasons. I don't agree with the ruling, but I don't consider it a fire arms ban.

@EdNason

You clearly are not understanding what I am saying. There is a difference between regulation, and laws. Regulation changes from executive order or through powers granted to angenencies by congress IS NOT LAW, they are regulations, and thus subject to the whims of executive orders and the agencies enforcing them.

@Facci

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the bump stock itself. But rather a law, passed by congress (not a regulation) that defines what constitutes a machine gun. As such, it is NOT subject to the whims of EOs or regulatory agencies. The proof of this is how they went about it. First off, there was no EO. Why? Because in this case it would have been nothing more then scribbling on paper with absolutely no weight behind it. Secondly, the ATF didn't change the law, they simply redefined what the law said. In other words, they are saying that bump stocks, as defined by the law, have always been illegal, and we are now enforcing it as such. The problem with this is that bump stocks didn't even exist at the time of the law. Furthermore, those who wrote the were quite clear about what a machinegun was and was never meant to include bumpstocks or similar items. The proof of this is the decades of enforcement and the fact that bump stocks were perfectly legal up until they weren't.

No, it wasn't a firearms ban, in the same way magazine bans are not firearms bans.

@EdNason

Not that hard, trump can't change laws only make regulations. I suggest you study up on such things. otherwise you get lost. It wasn't open to interpretation for decades, then all of sudden it was? Please, that is a very weak argument.

@EdNason

It was never acceptable. Yes, part of my argument is that he has set very dangerous precedent, but the really scary part is that no one seems to care. "Why should I care if it doesn't affect me?" Your argument is basically that next time, when the next president takes it a step further and redefines the law to include semi autos, that hey, he's the boss, they all do it...stupidist argument ever.

@EdNason

I thought we were having a discussion, a question was asked and I responded. I've already explained the difference between policy and law. My position is that it was unconstitutional. Yours is that it doesn't matter because they all do it, except you can't show where any other steped beyond the bounds of policy.

Ed I don't think you can win here. There are so many serious cases of TDS that logic and common sense are things of the past. President Trump gets blamed for everything because he is the first to do anything in many years. Trump2020

@Dmwils

TDS? Because I criticize one thing? Perhaps you should take good long look in the mirror before you start espousing other people's derangement. Trump is far from perfect, and anyone who thinks otherwise is most certainly deranged.

I personally think he's the best president we've had in long time, policy wise. But in this particular case he has set a very dangerous precedent that has a lot of potential to be abused in the future. What worries me the most is that nobody seems to care, on either side.

@Judah80 I've followed your arguments throughout this post and find nothing for you to stand on. Every President is going to make emergency changes because things change drastically every day. As for looking in the mirror, i don't think President Trump is a perfect man I think he is perfect for the job because he's got the balls to stand for morals and Christianity. Most Americans i know are tired of the politically correct ass kissing of Muslims and minorities.

@Dmwils

The system was not designed to operate this way. It undermines everything. If you think redefining laws without congressional oversight to appease the masses is OK because "emergency", then you are truly a lost American.

@EdNason

You said you have been following. Name one action such as this. I'm not taking about policy or regulation. I'm talking about actually redefining and congressional law that has been on the books and enforced for decades.

@EdNason

Obama failed to outlaw ammo because it was unconstitutional. His policies within the ATF did not change or redefine any law.

Anti trust act was vague and purposefully left open ended. And while POLICY can effect it, the actual law has been developed over time through the courts, not presidents.

Oh I'm the one with the narrow view, funny.

@Judah80 designed by who?? This government has been perfectly fine for 246 years. It has kept Americans safe and prosperous, it has made us the number one country on this planet. So with all that said just exactly what do you think you have to bitch about. You don't like the President?? You don't like the politics?? You think the government is over stepping it's limits..take a look at Venezuela the people there thought they had all the answers too.

@Dmwils

OMG. Designed by the founding fathers, you know, with checks and balances so that one branch doesn't become too powerful. It's not the government's job to keep me safe and prosperous, it's their job to protect my freedoms. The reason why it's the greatest country in the world is because it's the freest. But better not be critical, fall in line, and keep your mouth shut. Wow, talk about Trump derangement syndrome. I already said he's the best president we've had in long time, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of things I think deserve to be criticized.

Trump is the new Jesus, if any one says anything to contradict that, you will burn in hell. There, does that make you feel better?

@Judah80 whatever makes you happy...

@EdNason

Wrong. He has taken my right to own a stock, not a machine gun, an accessory. Furthermore, he had made illegal, through very questionable means, an item that was previously legal without offering compensation for said item, which itself is unconstitutional.

You are obviously blinded by your trump goggles. You are literally no better then all those lefties who believe Trump is wrong about everything simply because they hate Trump. Clearly you are proof that Trump derangement syndrome goes both ways.