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Trump's Toxic Tax Returns

The law is clear that all federal employees must follow tax code law. Failure to act imposes mandatory firing, a possible fine and possible jail time up to 5 years. The 8 minute segment explains why Secretary Mnuchin and IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig are being very, very careful to say they are following the law when faced with a legal demand from the House of Representatives to see the last six years of Trump's tax returns.

Neither President Trump, Mnuchin nor Retting want to release Trump's tax returns. They just can't say they refuse to comply with the legal House request without facing mandatory firing from the federal government and a possible fine and jail time. Trump's advisers are no doubt telling Trump to keep his mouth tightly shut and let other people fall on their swords if it comes to that.

The apparent ways forward for this include:

  1. The Trump administration files suit in federal court claiming the tax code law is unconstitutional;
  2. Congress changes the law to exempt the President from the law (that won't happen);
  3. A constant stream of people in the Trump administration keep falling on their swords, and getting fired, while the House keeps issuing legal demands to see Trump's tax returns; or
  4. Maybe something very creative, e.g., declare a national emergency and impose martial law and suspend the Constitution due to the rabid hoards of rapists and murderers swarming the Mexico border and claiming asylum.
By Daryl6
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You have confused yourself. Congress has no authority to demand my taxes, your taxes or the President's taxes. Whatever Fake News blather has convinced you of this is just that desperate fake news. States and the IRS under the Executive branch have the mandate to audit taxes. what you are stuck on is most likely the federal disclosure requirements that do not go to Congress but to the OGE....take a deep breath then look them up!

The law cited was 26 USC 6103( f )(1) [law.cornell.edu] and several provisions of 26 USC 7214 [law.cornell.edu] which were asserted to mean that on request by authorized members of congress (chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation), a president's tax returns could be demanded. Those laws together look to me like they say what the broadcast segment says they say. Trump will either have to turn his taxes over, or he can go to court to challenge the law somehow, e.g., by arguing that law does not apply to a sitting president and/ir it does not say what the broadcast segment says it says.

I'm not confused. Maybe a court case will be needed to make a final decision.


But they are not required to give to public the fbi and the irs already have them


Trump has been audited. Unless Congress has substantive evidence that Trump withheld taxes illegally, I do not think they can indiscriminately demand his taxes. If they can, then I would demand that every member of Congress be required to submit their taxes to the Trump administration for scrutiny. The truth is this is all political games that are intended to distract the public from the fact that the Democratic party has no real answers for the problems facing America. Thay have opinions, yes, but no answers.

As far as I know, the law does not require congress to have substantive evidence that Trump withheld taxes illegally. They can had have demanded to see Trump's tax returns and he has to turn them over.

All Trump has to do is turn his taxes over and this will all go away, assuming he has not committed crimes. The only way to know that is to have someone look at his tax returns to determine that. As far as I know, there is not even any evidence he is being audited. Trump simply claims he is being audited, but he refuses to provide evidence of even that:

After Newsweek asked for a copy of the IRS audit letter sent to Trump, a campaign spokesperson last week pointed to the campaign’s website and the letter that was released by Trump’s attorneys at the Washington, D.C., firm Morgan, Lewis & Bockius. A follow-up query to the campaign asking for a copy of the actual IRS audit letter itself has gone unanswered. Newsweek offered to accept a redaction of any personal information that might be in the letter, such as a Social Security number, although generally audit letters contain just a name and address, which in Trump’s case is well known to be Trump Tower. In lieu of producing the audit letter, there’s really no proof that Trump is being audited. [newsweek.com]

I don't even believe Trump's returns are being audited. He is a chronic liar and he is lying about this:

The lawyers also claim that Trump’s recent tax returns are essentially extensions of his older returns, which include “items that are attributable to continuing transactions or activities that were also reported on returns for 2008 and earlier.” Translation: Even old returns that are not under audit can’t be released because they’re integral to what’s being currently audited. Nice try. Even if Trump is being audited by the IRS, there’s no legal barrier to his releasing his returns just as every presidential nominee has done for 40 years—a point made recently by Warren Buffett, the billionaire investor who offered to release his under-audit returns if Trump would show his. Nothing in federal law or IRS regulations prohibits a person from sharing tax returns with the public. It is true that some attorneys might advise against it. But what’s not in dispute is the overwhelming public interest in the returns, which is why every presidential nominee and virtually all major party candidates since 1976 have released some of their returns. [newsweek.com]


A third party filled out the tax forms, that party is legally liable for any shenanigans.
Those tax forms were then audited and then accepted. Except for embarrassing stuff I can't imagine what else could come of it.

If the taxpayer intentionally gives the tax preparer false information, the taxpayer is committing illegal tax evasions and the tax preparer is liable only if he knew and participated in the fraud. If the tax preparer false intentionally submits false information and the tax payer is unaware of it, the tax payer is fine, but the tax preparer is on the hook for breaking whatever tax laws were broken.

No one can know what else could come of it. That is why it is necessary for someone to look at them to see if there is anything else. If there's not, as Trump claims, then that's the end of it and the issue dies down and goes away.


@Daryl Those are some BIG assumptions to go on a fishing trip.
"No-one could know what would come of it" We VERY specifically avoid investigations like that in our country.


Given the vast illegality and corruption in American society, and I mean VAST, it is past time to step up our game to vindicate and defend the rule of law. The rule of law is under a serious, sustained attack and it looks to me to be getting close to collapsing into just a corrupt, partisan political tool.

Evidence of the vast corruption includes the net tax gap. That allows people and businesses to not pay $400-$600 billion/year in taxes owed. For 2001, the net tax gap was about $290 billion and about $385 billion in 2006, an increase of about $19 billion/year. [irs.gov] Over the years that kind of corruption and undermining the law has cost the US Treasury trillions of dollars, not billions. Easily avoiding investigations is what crooks, liars and traitors hide behind. It is time for the timidity of the law to end.

  • We VERY specifically avoid investigations like that in our country.

As far as I can tell, that is not true. For example, Hillary Clinton has been investigated many times and never once been indicted, much less convicted or anything. Despite all the past investigations, many or most conservatives, populists and Trump want more investigations. If those aren't fishing expeditions, then looking at Trump's tax filings isn't even close to what Hillary has been subjected to.


They can't force the release of his taxes is the actual law. Other presidents did it on their own free will but no law says they have to release them at all and unless the house can show an actual crime they are investigating they can't just subpoena anything they want on a hope to find a crime. The left wing is being 100% stupid with all of this tax stuff now that Russia has blown up in their face. All of the ones doing this should be the ones fired, not Trump or his administration.

george Level 6 Apr 12, 2019
  • They can't force the release of his taxes is the actual law.

Oh yes they can force the release of his taxes, or he is subject to mandatory firing from the federal government. The US president can be fired for disobeying federal law. That is what this discussion is all about. If you think that David Cay Johnston or the law is wrong, please let all of us know what evidence you have to show that.

@Daryl there is no law that he has to release his taxes, that is just a tradition of former POTUS. Show us the law that says he has to release his tax returns. Just because u want a witch Hunt don't mean u get one.


  • there is no law that he has to release his taxes

You did not read or understand the discussion I posted. The law is crystal clear: If congress asks for a federal employee's tax returns, the IRS has to obey with that demand and for any federal employees who refuse to comply, they must be fired. That include the president of the US. The president of the US is Trump and he is a federal employee and thus subject to existing law.

The importance of that existing law is why I posted this discussion. It is really important. Really important. It might force TRump to reveal evidence of his pure innocence, illegal tax evasion, treason, lies and anything else his returns contain.

Does that explain the situation that Trump is in? If I am mistaken about any of this, please let me know. For me, facts and logic about politics talk, and everything else walks, especially (1) political, economic and religious ideologies, and (2) anti-public interest economic interests.

@Daryl an elected official is not the same as a federal employee is my understanding of it. Yes, they are on federal payroll but they aren't hired or fired. U can't fire a president in the same way u can an unelected federal employee so that position is not part of the law. This is all just a witch Hunt and a diversion for the Democrats so they don't have to offer a real platform and actual policy positions. MSNBC propaganda holds no weight with me if we are gonna talk facts either. Just look at their Russia "bombshells" and "beginning of the end" stories and u will see they are nothing but propaganda for the DNC and permanent state that all oppose Trump.


"law is clear that all federal employees must follow tax code law. Failure to act imposes mandatory firing" . So you have proof that Trump did not follow tax law??? Please provide the evidence. Since there isn't any, you full of crap.

They don't even have a suspicion of a crime much less proof of one. They think they can just investigate someone until they find something which is illegal to do in the USA. All the Dems doing this should be brought up on charges for what they are doing.

No, I do not have proof that Trump did not follow tax law. That is why the law allows congress to demand tax returns to check to see what the facts are.

Why on Earth would you think I have proof? I did not say or imply that I had any proof. You said that, which is simply not true.

All I have is publicly available evidence that says Trump is a tax cheat, a liar, a traitor, and a racist. Congress is simply asking only for evidence about one of those points, i.e., his criminal tax cheating. Maybe that will reveal more evidence of his treason, racism and/or other interesting items of public interest.


@Daryl So no evidence, no probable cause, no report of criminal activity related to tax returns, no IRS enforcement against Mr Trump, and your willing as an officer of the court to watch and support a fishing expedition that has no bounds all because as you say "I want" because there is nothing else.. You sure you are not on the ninth circuit. Remember that document that came along a decade or so after that declaration of independence. One of the reason for the break away other than the obvious was the British habit of continual investigating until they found a crime. Hence the several protections against search (which this is) and Seizure which this could be. I am astounded by your position. no more simply put.


Yes, there is IRS enforcement going on. Trump himself admits that by saying he is being audited. That is enforcement.

  • One of the reason for the break away other than the obvious was the British habit of continual investigating until they found a crime.

That sounds like republicans going after Hillary Clinton. After all the fishing expedition investigations, they still want to go after her with more fishing trips. Fine, go fishing. What is good for Clinton is just as good for Trump. Let's go investigate.

@Daryl so what aboutism is strong with you. An IRS audit is not an enforcement issue accounting 101.

@Daryl See with Hillary there actually was a crime to investigate. 33000 deleted gov't emails. See that is the spark for an investigation not "I want". See how it works is a crime is committed or alleged then you investigate, not the other way around. When Hillary used Bleach Bit to erase software, which she admitted too, that was a crime, obstruction. See Trump you have no nothing but want to investigate anyway.


I'm not convinced there is any audits at all. Trump has lied about taxes under audit not being releasable to the public. He has also refused to show proof that he is being audited by the IRS. All he has to do is show an IRS audit letter informing him that he is being audited. So far, TRump has refused to show one.

An IRS audit is a component of tax law enforcement: The Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigation Division conducts criminal investigations regarding alleged violations of the Internal Revenue Code, the Bank Secrecy Act and various money laundering statutes. The findings of these investigations are referred to the Department of Justice for recommended prosecution. Criminal Investigations can be initiated from information obtained from within the IRS when a revenue agent (auditor) or revenue officer (collection) detects possible fraud. Information is also routinely received from the public as well as from ongoing investigations underway by other law enforcement agencies or by United States Attorneys offices across the country. [irs.gov]

Common sense 101.

What aboutism is very, very strong with you.

@Daryl Show proof why, has he committed a crime? if he has which one? So has potential fraud been established, since it has not been leaked by the Deep State, I assume ZERO, like the rest of your baseless claims. If the IRS is fine with Trump and has not charged him than so am I. When will you be releasing your tax returns for everyone to peruse? Six years please.


There is plenty of publicly available information suggesting Trump is a money laundering tax fraudster. I want someone who can be trusted to look at his returns and then tell us Trump is clean. Once that happens, I will be satisfied. Until then, I want his returns examined and either he prosecuted for whatever illegal activities there might be or he is left alone about this.

@Daryl So because Hillary committed or was alleged to have committed crimes that she got away with so far, you assume Trump has done the same. See without a crime or an alleged crime there nothing to investigate, why am I telling you all this, you should know this, you are in fact a lawyer.

@Daryl You sure you are not on the Ninth Circuit, it would explain a lot.


Your baseless claims of Trump's innocence are not persuasive or credible.

  • When will you be releasing your tax returns for everyone to peruse? Six years please.

Nice whataboutism deflect try, but it is not relevant. This is about Trump, not you, me or anyone else. All Trump, only Trump.

@Daryl You mean from the Legacy media that is wrong more than right. Anonymous sources or fake sources. Now you are Back to the "I WANT" . You realize the law is not based on your wants right?


This has zero to do with the 9th circuit. The applicable law states that CONGRESS, not the 9th can ask for Trump's tax returns and they have to be produced.

Nice whataboutism deflect try, but it is not relevant. This is about Trump, not you, me, the 9th or anyone or anything else. All Trump, only Trump.


The Legacy media?? Irrelevant.

Nice whataboutism deflect try, but it is not relevant. This is about Trump, not you, me or anyone else. All Trump, only Trump.

@Daryl See baseless means there is nothing there and that is exactly what I am telling you. You have yet to present anything remotely looking like an alleged crime, proof, or probable cause, how did you pass the Bar exactly.. Where the answers written on your hand?


I assume Trump broke laws because there is enough evidence in the public record to reasonably believe that. An investigation will determine if there is enough evidence to prosecute. And even if there isn't, I still think Trump committed crimes and has been committing crimes for decades.

@Daryl as you say there is plenty of public information, but you have yet to provide any, that tells me you have none. "There is plenty of publicly available information suggesting Trump is a money laundering tax fraudster."

@Daryl Please provide any link to any public information that alleges illegal activity and yet again you provide zero. If you had you would have already sent it. And since you already stated it was public information you should have immediate access to it. SO WHERE THE FUCK IS IT


You know Ed, fun as this is, you cross the line too much. Now you accuse me of cheating on the bar exam. That is a personal insult and attack I won't tolerate from anyone.

So, much fun as it has been, we're done permanently. Goodbye Ed.


@Daryl here is another great legal phrase you use. "I assume" use that in a court of law see how far you get ... You are not a lawyer, I dealt with you guys my entire life, you do not talk like "I want" or "I assume"

  1. Delay as long as possible while pointing out how unjust and opportunistic the democrats are Then, in 3 months or so, give the committee the tax returns in the required closed hearing and hold them accountable to the non-disclosure requirements. I'd want a congressperson that violated this to serve the full 5 years and pay the full fine. Legislators do not get immunity from felonies. Any journalist that prints this information gets to stay in jail until their source is revealed. Anyone that's being flippant on this issue has not thought this through. There aren't too many people out there that like the idea of tax information being published for a cheap political dirty trick.

"Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure."

"no officer or employee of the United States, ... shall disclose any return or return information obtained by him in any manner in connection with his service as such an officer or an employee or otherwise or under the provisions of this section. For purposes of this subsection, the term “officer or employee” includes a former officer or employee." [law.cornell.edu]

  • Then, in 3 months or so, give the committee the tax returns in the required closed hearing and hold them accountable to the non-disclosure requirements.

That's 100% fine with me. I'm a HUGE fan of the rule of law, which means I dislike republican lawbreakers just as much as I dislike democratic lawbreakers. I could not care less about party affiliation. I just care about vindicating the rule of law.


TRUMP. Master chess player he really don't care if they see his taxes or not, but it sure does keep them on the wrong chess board while the real Master's play the Master Game for the Ultimate Win for America!

Then you should be very happy that he's playing such a masterful game. I still want his tax returns examined for crimes.

@Daryl good for you i want everyone in Congresses and any place else i can think of but we don't alway's get what we want we learned that before kindergarten


Hi fisherman0707! Good to see you. It is disappointing that your first comment to me refers to me as a "a libtard of an extraordinary level."

We're done. I won't tolerate unjustified personal insults and attacks from anyone, including you.

I won't be responding to anything you have to say to anyone. Good job. Goodbye fisherman0707.

@Daryl u don't get to have an open ended investigation with no specific crime stated up front. This is the USA. He don't have to prove he is innocent of anything. The Dems have to show reasonable suspicion of a crime before they can subpoena any of those records. It's amazing how people want to throw out due process because of their delusions and hate toward the POTUS. I'm a leftie myself and even I'm not that petty about losing the election. Quit nominating the only person possible that could lose to Trump is what I say. Quit voting for someone's race and sex for a change. All Hillary offered was "I'm with HER" because that is just how simple minded the left has become, they see a woman so they vote for her no matter how bad she is but that will never win national elections.


  • u don't get to have an open ended investigation with no specific crime stated up front.

u r rite. i don't get grunt squat - grunt, belch, fart nose pick and booger eat, uh, uh, belch, fart . . . .

Fortunately, this isn't about me at all. This is about the power congress has under the rule of law. The law says congress gets to see Trump's tax returns whether he likes it or not. That's just the law, nothing to do with me.

  • He don't have to prove he is innocent of anything.

Darn right. But he does have to follow the rule of law. The rule of law is brain dead simple: ALL federal employees have to show their tax returns if congress asks for it. Congress has asked for it. That is the main point of this discussion.


@Daryl Just called a spade a spade and I no longer wish to converse with one thanks


If Trump failed to follow tax law, I'm sure the IRS would let him know. Of course Trump's tax lawyers know the law 10 times better than any IRS bureaucrat. The House is not entitled to see anything regarding his tax returns unless he has violated tax law--which it is the duty of the IRS to determine.

MarPep Level 7 Apr 12, 2019

I am not at all sure the IRS would let him know. Congress, prodded by rich people have lomng ago neutered the capacity of the IRS to check rich people's taxes:

  • "The IRS Tried to Take on the Ultrawealthy. It Didn’t Go Well.
    Ten years ago, the tax agency formed a special team to unravel the complex tax-lowering strategies of the nation’s wealthiest people. But with big money — and Congress — arrayed against the team, it never had a chance."


The law says the House is entitled to see everything regarding his tax returns. That is the law, not someone's personal opinion.


Tax RETURNS???How about the open sedition declared by Democratic Congresswoman cunts Omar and Cortez and Beto!How about Bernie the Marxist!Smokescreen!Deflection? These people are traitors to the Republic and the American People! Start a march,(GRASSROOTS) for the Democratic party to be dissolved! Protest their anti-American sentiment and open racism and force them to either do their job or resign or go to prison! Quit coddling these political correct socialist sheep and lets sheer them! A Patriot march in support of the Republic!! I'm sick of watching these traitors and the Marxist media getting away with open treason!REVOLT on them NOW!!!!

How about the open sedition? If they broke any laws, fire up the prosecutors and vindicate the rule of law.

Anyway, this discussion is about Trump's tax returns and his unwillingness to obey the law and turn them over pursuant to a legal demand from congress.

Sounds like you advocate extremism and violence. That's not my cup of tea.

@Daryl This is an open forum, and you are a democratic sympathizer at least! The Law, and justice you liberals know nothing of the law!But you will extend your vocabulary and learn new words like retribution and treason,and collaboration,and complicity! OPen sedition???That's all the Democratic Marxists espouse his treasonous rhetoric and you are their ally!THat makes YOU the Enemy also of the Republic! The days of acquiescing in Political correctness are over!And listening to liberal Democratic talking points like yours!


If I had my way, the incompetent, corrupt democratic and republican parties would be small, out of power and mostly irrelevant to politics.

I'm not the enemy of the Republic. I am its best defender. I am the enemy of corruption, incompetence and criminals.

@Daryl Corruption???You live in the most CORRUPT state in the Union??It's a Marxist haven! Your rhetoric is toxic to the nation,you don't give a F bout tax returns your driven by the Saul Alinsky 60s rhetoric that you absorbed and is now tattoed on your soul TRAITOR!It is one thing to have a difference of opinion it is another to support subversion and a political coup on an elected President because he does not support your rainbow mantra!! You are a traitor and if it goes south or war comes to our streets it is people like you who will be held accountable, and you can bet on that1I'm sick of you closet socialist traitors spewing your tripe and racist, atheist dogma! Tax feturns my ass!


I care a lot about the tax returns of every tax cheat there is and ever was. I want every tax cheat ever to pay. The reason I care a lot is that tex cheating costs the US Treasury $400-$600 billion/year. Honest Americans pay their taxes, while tax cheats like Trump have stolen trillions over the years by not paying what they owe. To me that's a huge deal, not something trivial. You appear to support tax cheating. We disagree. I am a patriot fighting for the law and freedom.

@Daryl LOL!!Yes we disagree....looks like Freedom of speech is still a valid Right!

@arboristly560 Darryl has no logic when it comes to taxes, taxation is basically theft anyways


Taxes taxes taxes. Cover for sadistic pedophiles in power that Trump and many are exposing. Wikileaks 100% acurency rating since 2006 exposing there own word's arrested say's alot. CIA has the connection and the power to bring him in and are child traffickers supplying them. Evil evil Deep State

Oh, you're feisty this morning. Keep exposing those sadistic pedophiles in power. Darned republican deep state. Bad, bad.

@Daryl i will expose any all who are involved that i come across this is not a party issue I'm not a party line walker.


I'm not a party line walker either. There is no pragmatic rationalist party, which is what I am. Note sure what it is you want to expose or why.

@Daryl you can't admitt to what needs exposing and why. I believe


You can't accept that Trump's crimes and lies need even more exposing than they already have been exposed. I'm sure.

@Daryl i think you can't expect there is nothing to be exposed. But keep holding on to false hope the Dems been promising since the start of the party! It work's so well


  • i think you can't expect there is nothing to be exposed.

OK, so there is something to be exposed. Are you defending illegality? Do you defend tax cheats unless they are republicans? How much illegality do you support, e.g., murder, pedophilia, rape?

@Daryl your pushing what is legal or not. You can not look into something to see if it's illegal without evidence it maybe. Why do you think so many. Or still waking free?


Trump was a billionaire before taking office. The tax returns the people should be demanding are those of legislators who became millionaires on salaries less than two hundred thousand/year.

MarPep Level 7 Apr 12, 2019

I do not believe that Trump ever was a billionaire. He just lies about it. Seeing his tax returns would confirm or deny that belief.

@Daryl TDS is strong with you..

@Daryl you can go online for much information on the charities he and Hillary both set up that information is very telling


Trump's charity was a fraud and illegal. At least Clinton's charity did some good.


Trump blindness syndrome is strong with you.

@Daryl founded to be by who? Lmao! Walking blind is in noway helping you

@Daryl and this matters how to him being elected and corrupt you are saying you want them released to prove corruption then you say it's to prove he was never i billionaire which by the way is nobody business.
I think this is more you, better buy some more throat lozengers your going to need them maybe some stock in the company too.

@Daryl Why would either being or not being a billionaire make any difference?



Another tiring, unpersuasive, not effective deflection. This discussion is about Trump, not Clinton. Trump, not Clinton. Trump, not Clinton. Trump, not Clinton. Trump, not Clinton. Trump, not Clinton.

It makes a difference because the US president repeatedly said that before the 2016 elections and that probable lie helped get the liar Trump elected on the basis of his lies.

Weren't you irate at all the lies you thought Clinton said to the public, true or false?

By all means, feel free to post as much rage and hate you have stored up for Hillary. Let your poisonous hate flow free and copious.

Did you notice that this discussion is about Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton.

By all means, feel free to post as much rage and hate you have stored up for Hillary. Let your poisonous hate flow free and copious.

Did you notice that this discussion is about Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton, Trump, not Clinton.

By all means, feel free to post as much rage and hate you have stored up for Hillary. Let your poisonous hate flow free and copious.

Did I make myself understood? Or, do I need to repeat it some more?

@Daryl I think the rage and hate is all coming from you and your TDS, And please quote the law that says any legislator is entitled to view any politician's tax returns.



  • And please quote the law that says any legislator is entitled to view any politician's tax returns.

I didn't say that. You just made it up. The law says that certain people in congress has a right to see his returns. That is what the video in the discussion makes perfectly clear. If Trump releases his tax returns to the public, then everyone would be entitled to see them.

I think the blindness coming from you is due to your Trump blindness syndrome.


This is nothing more than a red herring. It's political theater to give the MSM something to avert attention. The funny thing in all of this, they're handing him 2020 on a silver platter.

Well, if that's true, then Trump supporters should be very happy that the House is trying to force him to cough up his tax returns.

In some ways, yes, but mostly, it's a distraction. The Dim-wit-o-rats, rule by emotion and hyperbolic smoke and mirrors. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain." Their performance is becoming tiresome, and more people are seeing it daily.


Are Americans even required to pay taxes, by Law? He could go that route, and just admit that the entire income tax system and IRS itself are fraudulent and without a legal leg to stand on

Slavey Level 6 Apr 12, 2019

Then he should do that and vindicate the rule of law. I'm a HUGE fan of the rule of law.

@Daryl rule of law huh. How about the illegal search and seizure piece. You want to seize his tax returns and then search them.. Your complete argument is unconstitutional.


There is nothing illegal about congress demanding to see his returns. That is what the law is. That is what this discussion is all about. Did you listen to the discussion of the law in the 8 minute segment, or at least read what I wrote?

@Daryl yes there is. They are demanding and searching for crimes without probably cause. What evidence do Dems have that Trump has done anything illegal. Answer ZERO... Without an identified crime you are fishing, and fishing is against the constitution.


There is plenty of evidence of Trump's illegal activities for congress to ask to see the returns. If there's nothing illegal there, than that's the end of it and the issue goes away. Trump himself claimed he would turn his taxes over, but that was a garden variety Trump lie. He hides his returns because he has things to hide.

@Daryl What law has he broken, please provide details?

@Daryl and you are a lawyer, you should know this. You are an officer of the court and disregard the constitution this easily. WOW what a world. A lawyer ignoring the rules of law, and Jurist Prudence. Endless investigation, without proof or probable cause. I fear for our country if you truly believe this.


Maybe Trump has broken no tax laws. That is why congress needs to see his tax returns to determine that. I want the law respected, not ignored like Trump is doing here.

Free lawyer advice: It is jurisprudence, not Jurist Prudence. Jusrist Prudence sounds like a person named Prudence being a jurist.


@Daryl Maybe Trump has broken no Law. We need a witch hunt to find out.

@Daryl so now you know the law. You were ignoring the Constitution for a while there. You want to pursue 6 years of tax returns in the hope you find something. Are you a KGB lawyer, find me the man, I'll find the crime? "You want the law protected" by not following the law. Makes no sense whatsoever.


I always understood the constitution. You just ignore what I say. That's your problem, not mine.

Are you a Russian bot? If so, you need to up your game a whole lot.


Nah, we need an investigation to find out. That's all.

@Daryl So bring this case to the grand Jury with evidence you have, or a judge not in the 9th circuit for a subpoena. Present your, I want, case with no evidence, no probable cause and see how you do getting a warrant. After the judge sanctions you for wasting the courts time.

@Daryl So you have probable cause for this subpoena right? Do you even have a prima facien case to present. AN officer of the court that has zero interest in the rule of law. Ironic *****Fall back position I must be a Russian bot

@Daryl See just saying you want an investigation "to find out", you know that is not evidence right???


That is incoherent.


Free attorney advice: There is no such thing as a prima facien case. It is called a prima facie case and that is what I've been presenting all along. You clearly do not understand the applicable legal concepts, much less what they are called.

@Daryl I was thinking the same thing about your argument for his tax returns and then you went off the rails about "I want them".

@Daryl Let me put this simply. the government needs some type of cause to demand documents. Not just an I Want them.

@Daryl where exactly is your case with "I want". Or we just need to do it. Which section of the law would you be quoting? Let's investigate is not evidence.

@Daryl Free accounting advice... Move out of your high tax state.

@Daryl what we would ever do without your spell check.

Just an aside:
never take free legal advice

@Daryl u want to break the law in hopes that u find a crime to remove a POTUS with. State what crime he is suspected of and the reasonable suspicion u have in order to do any of this then we can talk. U can't just say I know he did something but I need those taxes to find it. That isn't how the law works at all.


i want to uphold the law in hopes of defending the US Constitution. i will not state what crime he is accused on because he accused of no crime. Congress has simply asked for his tax returns, which he lied about showing. This is about congress' effort effort to see if Trump is a liar, crook, and/or traitor. That is exactly how the law works.

Did you even read the discussion or listen to the interview? Or, are facts beneath your dignity?


@Daryl facts aren't beneath my dignity but left wing BS is a waste of time. Accept that u lost the election and move on. All of this after they bitched about Trump not accepting election results. How ironic, thought u had it in the bag and now look at yourselves, just sad honestly.


  • facts aren't beneath my dignity but left wing BS is a waste of time.

Me too. But, I hate left wing, right wing, and any other wing BS. I'm all for facts, logic, the public interest and, to stave off tyrants and kleptocrats like Trump, reasonable compromise.

We are not on the same page. Not even close. I'm ecumanical, you aren't.

@Daryl as far as I can see Trump has just been business as usual so the tyrrant talk is irrelevant to me. He has been more left wing than Democrats in many issues and the rest have been the normal right wing positions. Until he actually makes a move toward tyrrant this is all just MSNBC propaganda BS. If the DNC hadn't cheated he wouldn't be president anyway and all this craziness now is to cover up the real collusion of 2016 between the DNC and MSM to pide piper Trump and blackout Bernie to ensure Hillary got the nomination only to be slapped in the face on election night. Now they are butt hurt and have to find anyway to get Trump to save face and it's all a waste of time and money.

Don't see what church and Christianity has to do with anything here but u are correct, I'm not a bit ecumanical.


  • Trump has just been business as usual so the tyrant talk is irrelevant to me.

That is true for some people. For others, they see a tyrant wannabe making a run for dictator for life. That something Trump has publicly stated he wants to be, making the issue highly relevant to people who are watching and listening. Trump's rhetoric and actions in office are all in accord with how dictators wind up in power, also highly relevant to careful observers. History shows the same tyrant pattern over and over and over. In this regard, Trump is nothing new. What is new is that he is trying for tyranny in America. Many people are concerned about this: [theguardian.com]

Trump terrifies me and I will oppose him every peaceful, legal way I can for as long as I can. Once he gains the power he wants, Trump will permanently shut people like me up and that will be by force. The same thing has happened in history over and over and over.

Concern over encroaching Christianity is obvious. That's why Evangelicals are enthralled with Trump despite his obviously deeply immoral, corrupt character. Evangelicals used to worry about the personal morals of a president, but now they are the group the least concerned with a president's morals.The state needs desperately protection from the Church, but right now state self-defenses are crumbling. America is entering a dark period of savagery and corruption.

@Daryl Unhinged lunacy....


That is in the eye of the beholder. This is a point that zealots and ideologues seem simply unable to understand, or if they understand it, they are simply unable to accept it. People are free to disagree. That is a fundamental right. Just because there is disagreement, doesn't mean the beliefs of the person one disagrees with necessarily is an unhinged lunatic or the basis for their beliefs is unhinged lunacy.


@Daryl You're an ideologue. Listening to anything you say can lead to mental retardation. It has no basis in reality. Unhinged lunacy...

@Daryl You're concerned over "encroaching Christianity".... bahahahahahaha


Glad you're amused. I'm not. Reasonable minds will differ.


What's so "toxic" about his tax return, aside from the dementors asking to see it as part of their weaponization of the legal system against him?

Slavey Level 6 Apr 12, 2019

They are toxic because the issue further polarizes and divides Americans. It is harmful to society, democracy and the rule of law. If Trump has nothing to hide, why does he refuse? He refuses because he has lots of illegal activities to hide. He can easily prove that wrong by just releasing his returns.

@Daryl Quit playing obstructionist politics and pretending you care about the rule of law. Open Borders types don't get to use that argument.

@Daryl I am not divided by his tax returns I could care less.


I almost could not care more.


Last time I checked, anyone could play just about any kind of politics they wanted. My brand of politics is, among other things, anti-obstructionist, pro-transparency, pro-rule of law and pro-democracy.

@Daryl so now you are language police... Careful what you post as I can do the same thing

@Daryl See how the US Jurist Prudence works is, you ID a crime that has been committed. Then you look for the evidence. Not the other way around, or are you a fan of the USSR.


I am a fan of the rule of law. There is good reason for congress to look. And Trump said he would release his returns. He hides them because he has illegal things to hide. Pure and simple.

@Daryl So you have no issue with illegal search and seizure, or probable cause... Ok I understand comrade.

@EdNason easy to see the real Russian here, huh? lol

@george I thought Daryl actually had some evidence to present. but he had no evidence and thought fishing for it via subpoena was constitutional. I disagree.


They can have Trumps returns since he’s been in office. They’re not entitled to snoop through his personal or business returns for any years prior to his swearing in.

That's not what the law says. They are entitled to look. If he has nothing to hide, then why fight it? He fights it because he has nasty things to hide.

There is no law that stating he must release his tax returns. It is a tradition, not law.

@Daryl and you know he has things to hide, how? If you have evidence please present.

@Daryl So if you're innocent then let me search through your things? Nazi much Daryl?

@Daryl And Nancy Pelosi the 3rd highest ranking member of the US gov't, where are her returns again? Your selective outrage is very expected.


Pelosi isn't the president. Trump is. I want to see the president's returns. I want to see them before they a president is elected to office.

@EdNason Indeed!!!


@Daryl oh yes....must be true...after all it's in the NYtimes.....not a hint of biases there. Good job!! Im convinced. (Could some one tell me where the sarcasm font iis at ?)

@Daryl here is the key... "I want" not we have probable cause, or a crime has been committed.. Just I WANT...

@Daryl Since you are a lawyer what legal basis are you using to justify demanding his return or else. Has a crime been committed? Do you have probable cause to believe Trump has committed such a crime? Since the Answer is no to both questions. WHAT IS YOU LEGAL BASIS, other than "i WANT"

@Daryl So now its Trump's sister.... If you had your way we would have warrant less searches in an effort to FIND crimes. KGB tactics. How about you release your tax returns?

@EdNason you're wasting your time @Darly is a true believer. A committed devote leftist. Orange man bad. Orange man bad. There is no limit to the mental gymnastics he’ll go through to justify his ideology


Your sarcasm isn't impressive or persuasive. What could be impressive or persuasive is you showing us why the evidence I cited is wrong.

PS: My name is Daryl, not Darly. Or was your 'mistake' intended as just a gratuitous, childish insult?


This is a useless waste of time and Dems are just looking for something to get Trump with. I hope they never get his returns.

Under the circumstances, this is a legitimate and important thing for the House to look into. I hope Trump is forced to turn his returns over. After all, if he has nothing to hide, why hide nothing? That is exactly the same standard applies to his political opponents, so it ought to apply to him.

@Daryl Find the man, I will show you the crime, is Russian jurist prudence not American. The IRS is the governing body, not you.


I never said or implied that I am any governing body. You just made that up. I am on the side of transparency, honesty, the rule of law, personal freedoms and all that is good and decent.

@Daryl transparency like the Fast and Furious documents, the Benghazi documents, 40,000 deleted Hillary emails that kind of transparency.


Deflection. Whataboutism.

Hillary is a different topic from Trump's illegally withheld tax returns. If you think Hillary broke laws, tell your representatives to start investigations, indict, prosecute, convict and jail her. I'm all for the rule of law, doesn't matter who breaks it. As far as I am concerned, crooks are crooks regardless of which party they are in.

@Daryl Here an actual crime was committed leaking classified (whether intentionally or not is irrelevant) info then you investigate. Here you want to look at every piece of paper Trump has, and then find out if a crime has been committed. The KGB would be very proud... Putin was a former KGB agent, do you align yourself with him?


On the list of things I care about Trump's tax returns does not make the top 1 million. If the IRS has no issue with Trump, why should I? Just another Dem trick to take away some of Trump's steam.

For some people, Trump's returns are of no interest. I suspect many or most of those folks would otherwise if it was president Clinton we were talking about.

For some people, like me, seeing those returns are among the top 5-6 concerns I have about the president. I don't want a crook in office.

@Daryl and you are you are more qualified to view and audit his returns than the IRS. What are your qualifications exactly? I actually have a 4 year degree in Accounting.

@Daryl but you would want Hillary in office?
I have the emails were she got notification about bengazi and went back to bed and so many more and thought it was funny. Her crimes against the world's children are enough to have her suicided as well as many in politics on both sides. And you care about personal money in tax returns?


Your qualifications and mine are irrelevant. The law says that congress can demand to see a president's tax returns. You are deflecting.


I care about Trump's tax returns. That what this discussion is about. Clinton is a different topic. If you want to rip her, post your own discussion.

@Daryl And the President can and will refuse them. Which he should.. More of the I WANT and not I have evidence. You sure you are a lawyer. This seems kind of basic. I learned this in 2 semesters of B Law.

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