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Have you guys here dealt with a crisis as a result of changing your world view? I've been listening to the IDW for about two years now I think, and recently finished a book by Douglas Murray called "The Strange Death of Europe" which kind of brought my entire frustration with the current state of affairs to a tipping point. I used to consider myself a progressive leftie (that was the group I had been hanging around most of my adult life). No more. I feel restless, hopeless and lost in many respects, which is probably exacerbated by the fact that I have almost no-one who will talk to me about this. My husband is very understanding but he doesn't care much about politics, whereas I do. I am trying to engage some friends but it's very difficult -- I cannot suddenly transfer the hundreds of hours of listening to them, so it has to be done in very small steps, and I still feel I end up looking like the bad guy at the end of the exchange.

If you've been through a similar journey, I'd love to hear from you. Thank you.

BHB_UK 5 Mar 22
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1

Welcome to sad reality!

1

Talk to yourself. I do. It might look crazy to those who always have to know what your doing and sayin[sic], but no madder than voicing your beliefs to secular audience. Plus at least you will agree with yourself.

0

I have a question what did being progressive mean to you

My family was always very anti-Communist (as were most sane people in the old Czechoslovakia that I grew up in). After I moved to the USA in 1995 and began studying at university, I was gradually introduced to the left of the West, which appeared to be a lot more benign than the left of my childhood. At that time, it was. Now, I'm not so sure. My ex-husband, a graduate of University of California, Riverside (Cali is where we met) was/still is a very progressive leftie who is now part of a European think tank with some influence. He was also one of the editors of www.eurotrib.com, a left-leaning forum discussing political and social affairs. I went to a few meetups that took place around various capitals in Europe. Progressive as defined by this circle -- anti -American, pro-diversity, pro-EU, pro-identity politics, LGBT rights, pro-choice, the environment -- the whole lot, really. It took me quite a while to free myself from the labels they've assigned to anyone outside their approval. Recently, after trying to hold a discussion with one of them, she (formerly he) told me: "I think you are a good person, but you are heading in a very bad direction. Milo and Jordan Peterson await." That was the last exchange we had. I think she thinks I've joined the KKK. Sigh.

@BHB_UK in the united states the progressive movement is a communist movement the communist party usa changed is name to the progressive labor party in 1962 antfa is their military wing so it’s easy to see what these ppl stand for.as for anti american and pro-diversity the us is the most diverse society in the world so anti american is by default anti diverse. the kkk are the leftist reaction to the freeing of slaves jim crow was another counter policy well fare is the same these are policy’s that anyone who understands communist ideology like social justice and economic justice and affirmative action would know to be careful of. thanks for your reply it has been a great pleasure talking to you and good luck with your family and future

3

HI Interesting short Bio post BHB. I am a retired Military, and after the military, I drive various Trucks buses etc. simply because I could not make what I felt I was worth in other fields of endeavor. I lean more liberal with social issues, but quite conservative with fiscal issues. So I guess I call myself a libertarian although I take much flack from, both political sides in the U.S. because of this. I have friends in the UK but most of the political view I get from them is much " gotcha" thought about Trump and weapons,Walls and such.
My brother pointed me in the direction of this platform...So I am taking somewhat timid steps to see if this platform represents and change is the dysfunction of the conversation in other Social platforms. I am older so it is apparent to me when reading various High school and College texts that what is published does not reflect my experiences growing up.

Hi Cageycritter,

I recently took a political compass test and it put me in the libertarian category as well 🙂, although there is really no such thing here in the UK I believe. Yes, people here tend to know only a limited amount about American politics, I guess that goes both ways. Generally, the sentiment towards guns and Trump are quite negative, as one would expect. I was quite pleased today to find out that Trump would not be accused of conspiring with Russia. I guess that will take the wind out of many people's sails. I also wonder how this platform will differ from all other ones, but I am hopeful! So far it looks like an interesting and varied group of people who are happy to talk.

no need to be careful ppl here seem to respect each others views

1

Jordan Peterson has a philosophy that after a perception changing event, rather than reach an enlightened position, we wander through the unknown.

I think it's scary. Terrifying, actually, to start to calculate the weight of the unknown and judge it's effects on your life as fair or worth while. Without those faces people give us to lash out at, there's not even a target to strike out at except ourselves, and the unknown darkness of oblivion.

I seek the good now, in hopes that it might make all the madness worth enduring.

Yes, I can identify with that, thanks. I've had a few of these changes of heart in the past, mostly relating to religion. Very uncomfortable. It is difficult to find one's feet in the complexity of today's world, and with the double-edged sword of the internet.

@BHB_UK beware the self.

If you feel something isn't right, try and ask yourself why of course, but find alternatives to the usual hunt for information and wisdom.

Scary as hell. But we're all in this together.

2

Did you know that The Strange Death of Europe has been removed from certain book shops in New Zealand since the mosque attack? (How Orwellian is that?) The book left me feeling very sad and nostalgic for the homeland of my youth (UK). Mass migration has ruined the England I grew up in. I now live in Australia. Like you, I too used to be left wing, but now that the far left resembles the far right, I consider myself a centrist.

Oh no, really? That book as well? I'm not surprised actually. I think there are many that share your feelings about England. I arrived in the UK in 2005 when it was already quite changed. I do love England and hope that it will be able to put its foot down at some point.

1

I had a similar experience in my 30’s, but it wasn’t political, it was religious, or maybe more theological. My views were challenged and I began to see things in a completely different way than I did before in my life. They were fundamental things concerning the sovereignty of God, and also the doctrines on sin and so on. I find now that our views will change if we open our minds and eyes, and search for truth instead of our version of the truth, or what we are comfortable with. The truth is not always comfortable.

Hi Debrann, thank you. I too had a similar crisis regarding religion. I've even written a book on this subject (fiction), called Apostate. Not finished though, maybe some day. The subject of leaving what was familiar and comforting for something foreign and quite scary has been a bit of a recurring theme for me in my life. I guess what I'm learning now is more uncomfortable because I worry about the future of our countries for the sake of my kids. That is my biggest preoccupation right now.

2

Let me be the first to welcome you to Post-postmodernism! Where the only two legs you have stand on are Postmodernism and Nihilism. The bloodbath which was the twentieth century (which some people believe Nietzsche prophecied) left the world shocked and reeling unsure of any foundation. Systematic belief structures which had been flourishing and around for centuries were cast off because "they had been around for centuries" and were therefore unscientific. However, nothing was offered to replace the meaning and purpose of these beliefs and collectively and individually there was no mooring for the soul (heart, psyche). People were alone, exposed and feeling violated. This has led individuals to build their own belief structures and to join with other individuals with similar belief structures to promote their beliefs. This gives them power but no way to resolve their despair and feeling of loss.

Haha, thank you, very upbeat! But you're right. Although I am an atheist, I resolve not to be a nihilist. I do find a lot of meaning in life, and purpose, too. I just don't like what's happening around us right now. The UK is in a right state, with Brexit hanging over our heads and having been so poorly executed that the whole country is split in two over it. The situation in the rest of Europe isn't comforting either. We shall see. I hope that there is hope.

.... or to go off the rails in selfish pursuit of hedonistic excess until one day they realise they have nothing to live for

0

I look at the why people act the way they do based on their personality. Instead of taking things "as is" I look for something deeper so I don't merely comment an opinion that stands on nothing.

4

I can certainly understand the restlessness you feel. Don’t feel hopeless though as there are many who are on their awakened ideologological path similar to yours, including me. The best way to truth is to always question, research and examine what you’ve gathered. For several decades I voted democrat not understanding why...self absorption mostly. For much of my married life I voted Dem, my husband Rep. Then 9/11 changed that...I suddenly realized my children’s future was at stake. I realized that’s my true motivation. We all have an obligation to leave the world a better place than when we entered it. I spent a lot of time reading history and American history. Re-examined my personal values and political beliefs. I’ll never be done...but I am awake, engaged and believe my evolvement, as have millions of others, will make the future better for everyone.

8

Yes yes yes, I’m going through a similar journey. In fact I was just thinking this morning that I have very few local friends to talk to now. I live in Seattle, one of the most progressive cities in the U.S. and work at one of the most liberal organizations in this city. So I’m surrounded by lefties. I wasn’t into politics at all and before Trump, I didn’t care who was elected as President. When Trump got elected, I was shocked and disheartened and thought “half the country lost its mind”. I started to pay more attention to politics but I was reading the left-leaning New York Times and Washington Post without knowing how biased they were and my leftie friends would post articles from the most radical media such as buzzfeed and Huffington post. Anyways all I knew was the progressive views although deep down I sensed they weren’t in line with my personal values. About three years ago, I started seeing the horrifying similarities between the American campus social justice movements and Red Guards and China’s Cultural Revolution. I knew Mao and his Gang of Four were behind the Cultural Revolution but couldn’t figure out why 50 years later a similar movement would start in the west and who was behind it. Listening to Jordan Peterson’s talks on postmodernism made me understand the phenomena. I was never a leftie but did trust the mainstream media and thought democrats were the better ones. The tipping point for me was Kavanaugh’s hearing last year. Without a shred of evidence, the media called Kavanaugh a rapist and hailed the liar Ford a hero. I was as shocked as I was when Trump got elected (if not more) and started to listen to Dave Rubin, Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson. As soon as I started hearing them, I felt this was where I belonged (I never felt at home with the lefties except I didn’t know why). Haha my friends probably think they are all white supremacists…but I think, if IDW could change our minds, they have potential to wake up others. I will select a few of my favorite videos to share with a few more open-minded lefty friends and start a conversation with them. By the way, I’m glad to be on this site where I don’t need to hide my political views lol.

Even in the "Bible belt" down here in Dallas the kids are coming out of college indoctrinated. Their fingers are long, and effective.

@RandyCooper , wow sounds like the social justice god has more brainwash power. I've seen this in the socialist country I come from so not completely surprised.

I live 3 hours south if you in Vancouver. Please pay attention to state and local government. Governor Inslee, is running for POTUS on our dime! He has no chance of winning, but guarantee you he is running with the green platform to secure an administration post should a Democrat win in 2020. He is traveling on “official state business”....and when he does, Washingtonians are paying for that. Then he can do an official campaign event tacked onto the trip before he returns to Olympia. You may not see what he is doing to the state too because you live in Seattle, but he is ruining this state that has otherwise had a center right standing for decades. It’s the down ballots that will be crucial on 2020. Murray and Cantwell are lifers, they need to go too. Murray killed a Senate bill to stop infanticide - killing a baby born after an abortion attempt, outside the womb. The bill came up because NY passed theirs. I’m for choice up to a detectable heartbeat only, but after that no. Disgusting really.

Hi Naomimi, sorry for the late reply, I blame it on life with a toddler! 🙂 Where are you from? It must be tough to be anything other than ultra-lib in Seattle. I lived in California for 4 years and even there, the majority is very progressive. I agree on the Kavanaugh hearing, it unsettled me too (no pun intended 🙂). Yes, JP has made me realize the parallels between old school commies and today one's... it's not pretty. Listening to him and the IDW, I now know that indoctrination of young people into this doctrine really takes part in universities. Jonathan Haidt really made me think when he said that the ratio of liberal to conservative professors is grossly in favor of liberals, and it's getting worse. I realized that this train of thought was the air I breathed in college and beyond. Time to wake up.

9

So what I have experienced is not a crisis that made me change my world views, but rather a reaction from people who suddenly realized that my worldview is different from theirs.

I am a right of Center moderately conservative teacher. I make it a point not to share my political beliefs in my classroom, because I don't think it is my job to indoctrinate high schoolers, but rather present them with opportunities to determine their own beliefs. I never really kill those beliefs. Sadly the same cannot be said for more Progressive teachers, but not only push their opinions upon students but ridicule people who disagree with them openly.

My students always consider me someone whom they trust and whose opinion they value... that is until they graduate and see me outside of the classroom on social-media. I have been friended and unfriended by a couple dozen former students. Some of those who disagree with me remain my friend because I have shown them that I'm a good person, and they can't justify dismissing me as a loon or an evil conservative.

So I have had students tell me that they have lost respect for me because I am conservative. I have been told that many of my former students now laugh at me behind my back. Yet while I was teaching them, these students trusted me more than any of the other teachers who were daily professing their leftist beliefs. These students knew I cared about them on a personal level, and that no matter what they did I would accept them and be there for them.

So it's hurtful for them to turn their backs on me simply because I didn't vote for someone whom I viewed as entirely corrupt. I wonder how they can look at me, the person they trusted and who proved herself trustworthy, and embrace ideas that say people like me are the enemy and not to be trusted.

All I can do is be myself and prove to a few students that the agenda of the left that wants him to hate me is just that... An agenda. An agenda that makes them feel accepted only long enough to use them; whereas, people like me honestly care, and not just about their votes and what they can do for me.

Don't fret, it's human nature for kids to rebel. your words are in their memories, and will come back to them at the most opportune times, when they are maturing. Please keep planting the fertile seeds of God, and His values! Thank you for your service, and keep up the good fight!

3

I think we all go through various crises of one degree or another on this path. I’ve heard this described as “if you can’t fully and completely imagine yourself in the shoes of the person you once viewed as the most repugnant and evil human on the planet, then you don’t understand humanity yet.” Most people simply don’t care enough to go through the pain necessary to obtain that understanding, and even if they did want to, in the modern world the opportunities for those kinds of realizations don’t come knocking very often. We are very fortunate to live in a sheltered world, where we have to actually work to see the evil that surrounds our borders. I personally don’t fault anyone who doesn’t want to do so.

2

Yes, most definitely.
To me the interesting question is - have we moved or have the left moved? It's a question I don't have an answer to.
But I know that I still hold a lot of the same values as before, its just now most of these values are more likely to be labeled 'far right' than left. These values include:

  • Suspicion of the establishment, political classes, media, police, etc.
  • Concern that all powerful elites and the increasing gulf with the rest of society (in terms of wealth, power and influence).
  • Anti-austerity and concerned by privatisation, unrestricted-capitalism/free market
  • Erosion of democracy (EU, Brexit)
  • The sexism, homophobia and general illiberal intolerance of certain groups in society who are given are 'Free pass', while other groups are routinely punished for lesser crimes.

What are your thoughts on EU and Brexit? I must say that I am now much more skeptical of the EU than I used to be. And also of the intentions of the UK leaders. I am trying to make sense of the whole situation but it's nearly impossible. One thing I know though: I don't like the way the EU is handling Brexit, threatening to make us into a horrible example for all other countries, like a jealous husband. It should be a voluntary membership. If you are left in ruins when you try to leave, it's been set up wrong.

@BHB_UK
In the first referendum I voted Leave, but not particularly enthusiastically and could see both sides of the argument.
However, I am now passionately pro-leave. The way the EU has behaved is not a surprise in my view, they treated Greece far worse. But I agree with you, the ethics of a club you can't easily leave without being punished are very dodgy! More like a religious cult.
However, the willingness of our own politicians to overturn a democratic vote is the bigger shock. The battle is no longer just about the EU, it is about democracy itself.
How did/would you vote?
As an aside, I think the politics of the EU is a rock-solid example of how definitions of left and right have fundamentally changed. Of course in the past opposition to the EU was led by the left, while Margaret Thatcher campaigned to join the old Common Market. Many on today's left have conveniently forgotten this it seems.

@BHB_UK By the way, I see you are Czech. My wife is also Czech and our children have Czech and British passports. This was one reason I was initially nervous of supporting Brexit. Although we actually met before Czech Rep was in the EU!
I see all parties have guaranteed the rights of existing EU citizens which I think is a positive step.
I understand that Czech Rep is quite anti-EU and would probably vote 'Leave' if there was a referendum, but I am not sure how true that is? I hear different things from different people.

11

Yes! I was certainly left leaning before, but gradually changed my views. Like Dave Rubin, I have "left the left". There wasn't a defining moment just a gradual scales falling from my eyes. Watching some of the behaviour of those who champion identity politics made me seriously question some of my longest held beliefs.

There's an old saying - if you're not a socialist when you're 20, then you haven't got a heart. If you're still a socialist when you're 40, then you haven't got a brain!

I have also read Douglas Murray's book. It's interesting to note that he and Tommy Robinson say very similar things. But Douglas Murray's posh accent means he doesn't experience the same public condemnation that Tommy Robinson does!

Well stated and last sentence, right on imo. I personally like to listen to Mark Steyn, even though his rich, melodic voice, excepting all the ummms and errrs, is very public school, he is overlooked too. His Mark Steyn mailbox vids on youtube, are refreshingly short. His worldliness, in my view, only adds to his credibility. And you won't hear any mainstream author and journalist, speak out about the radical, Islamic incursion, quite the frank way he does.

3

Was an anarcho-capitalist.

At the time, I was dating a progressive.

Between her constant bleating about the danger she was constantly under in our "rape culture", the oppression of gender and sexual minorities, the institutional discrimination against people of color, and my own realization that anarchism is a vapid concept that conflates the utopia inside a persons head with reality... i was broken.

Depressed.

Despondent.

It took a few years to build myself out of that hole.

3

I went from being a control freak 40 years ago , to accepting that it's not my job to run the world . There's no appreciation in it , and somebody would angry enough to harm me , all the time . I am independent in my personal space . Outside that environment , "not my circus , not my monkeys"

6

Yes. Both my husband and I were more progressive pre 9/11. That started our awareness. Now we are fully, horribly aware. Just warning you now: you will lose friends. You will possibly lose family members. But you are on the right path. Join forces with like minded souls because you will need strength against the mindless borg that is now the left.

Most of the time that I was homeless while writing my daily blog posts . I was living outdoors in Colorado . I have frostbite scars for my beliefs. I know what it is to be an outcast and hunted like an animal . My view of friends is through the filter of Commercial Identity . The people I trusted the most , I should have watched the closest.

Thank you for that. I won't lose family members because mine are still sane -- they are Czechs and have a very different view on immigration and Islam than the average Brit. Friends -- yes, potentially. I find it astonishing that so many people post on FB with such certainty and complete lack of restraint about their leftist ideologies -- I guess it's today's orthodoxy so it's never challenged, at least I don't see them being challenged. I did try to talk to one, who told me that I was a good person heading in a really bad direction and was being radicalized -- "Milo and Jordan Peterson await!" I had to just laugh.

7

I feel ya. I considered myself a Liberal for most of my adult life. We were supposed to be fighting for equality, freedom and liberation from an oppressive system. Imagine my surprise when I realized that wasn't the case at all. Once they got the upper hand, they became the oppressors. It was never about equality or freedom or liberation. It was about a power grab. The problem with extremist power grabs is that they usually have extreme outcomes. Enter the literally insane narrative the Left is pushing right now and liberalism has nothing left of the high ideals they once espoused.

3

Yes, looking at the world from a purely psychological perspective has shown me the pathology of political orthodoxy. I used to be hard left, but now I have to sit back and really analyze everything before I can form an opinion or take a position on anything.

Would you be willing to say more about what you mean by a "purely psychological perspective?"

Thank you!

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