Want to give everyone a thumbs up for this civil discussion and your courage @David_Reynolds (oops)in posting this. ...Unlike Christianity, in the Islamic world view, there is NO seperation of church and state. They are one and the same. Its a distinction worth considering. And the NZ attrocity, reprehensible and cowardly to the extreme!

You really believe there's an equivalence between Islam and other religions. FYI, before you answer, have a read of the Quran first. 109 times it calls for violence and hate to non believers and blasphemers.

@David_Reynolds this is a tough question. As a Christian man, I like to see all the good that Christians do. I also see what radical islamists do in this world in terms of bombings, rapes, beheadings, murders, etc, etc. I also see millions of Muslims who seek to assimilate, work, raise their kids and enjoy life. Those parts of the Quran mean nothing to them. They see them as antiquated and intended for another people at another time. Yes, radical Islamists adhere to those parts and we must defeat and kill them if necessary but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. Also, my point really regarded giving power to our govt to close houses of worship. That never ends well.

I could not agree more, cultural integration can't happen over night, it must happen in a subtle evolutionary way.

I also find it sad and ironic that your first reaction after seeing the slaughter of peaceful Muslims is to say those same dead Muslims have no place in your society.

I know radical Islam is a problem, but considering New Zeland was a peaceful place until someone started shooting Muslims, I think your indignation might be misdirected.

I don't mean to offend, and would love to hear more of your thoughts and hopefully understand more where you're coming from... I just think these are some dangerous ideas.

When those "Beliefs" or "Religions" are really political ideologies that demand, or will demand, institution of new Laws that are abhorrent to the host society, then it could easily be national suicide to allow influx of such followers. There are good Muslims, and there are evil non-Muslims---but Islam ultimately demands its own laws over the accepted laws of the host country--it's a demand in the Quran. Similarly, known Communist Ideologues should not be allowed into a free country.

@MarPep I believe homosexuality is a sin. That belief is becoming increasingly abhorrent to the culture I live in. Does that mean the government has the right to close down my church? Does that mean that if my church gets shot up some day, people are going to shake their heads and say, "That's what you get for your backward ways..."

I'm sorry, there's no way in hell I'm going along with the notion that we can paint an entire religion with a broad brush, label them as a cult, and justify infringing on their rights. And to be discussing it in the aftermath of members of that religion being slaughtered... there's no excuse for it.

@jnaatjes It's not us "painting" them--it's their "Holy Book" instructing them to subjugate or kill all others. Failure to recognize lethal dangers before inviting them in is suicide. And no one here is glad that anything bad happened to these Muslims. But neither is it the right time to forget about dangers to our own countries--from either side. Historically, Muslims remain peaceful within a host country until their percentage of the population becomes significant.

Islam is not the same, it leads the world in every possible way when it comes to hatred and violence. It tramples over everyone, specially Jews, gays, women children and endorses violence in it's texts, 109 times to be accurate.

@jnaatjes If you belonged to a church which demanded the killing or subjugation of all homosexuals, then yes, your church should be subject to investigation..and probably forced to close. Would you be glad to admit a "religion" into your country that had that stance on homosexuals?? I think not, even though you disprove of the sin, you would not want to invite a church that advocated the murder of homosexuals.

@MarPep When it comes to the protection of your civil liberties, I don't care what you believe. Your right to believe what you want is your right, and we should not punish people who haven't committed crimes and haven't called for others to commit crimes. You can't hold people accountable legally for everything it says in their thousand year old religious texts. Jews and Christian would also have some problems (though less) if we held that standard.

Same thing goes for Nazis, racists, Communists, or whoever else. You have a right to believe what you want, and I have the right to vigorously disagree with you.

If someone actually commits a crime, that's when we take action. When a place of worship is actually guilty, not just guilt by association, then you can close down that place of worship.

The threat of radical Islam indoctrinating western civilization is real... don't get me wrong. But freedom is risky business. I'm willing to sacrifice security for freedom, and I'd much rather fight the rhetorical battles than have people trying to bash each other with the club of government.

@MADcHATTER that would be awful to lose a friend in that tragedy. But none of those people who died were responsible for what happened on 911. Guilt by association with a group identity is usually a tactic used by the left. It's dangerous.

Even if you have zero sympathy for dead Muslims, you're kidding yourself if you think you can trample the civil liberties of someone else and then expect it to never happen to you. The group you belong to isn't always in charge.

@MarPep no I'd be strongly opposed to a church operating in the US that was threatening the lives of homosexuals. But they'd have to be actively threatening them and advocating violence. I don't believe in guilt by association.

@David_Reynolds I don't care if it's different. You're right, it is more problematic. So are Nazis and Commmnists. But I just don't believe in punishing people for their beliefs, and I don't believe in guilt by association. I believe in punishing people for committing crimes. That's the only way to keep society from deteriorating into hell on earth.

@jnaatjes Please don't make excuses for Islam by bringing up other religions and Nazi's. It's like a rapists lawyer saying please Meh'Lord, there's other rapists who live near by, so my client should be let off. The equivalence is proportionally absurd, iit's like comparing a mouse to a Bluewhale. Islam owns the space of vile texts, and abhorrent attacks around the world, No Muslim will condem their own Qurans bad texts let alone, accept a Quran 2.0 like Christianity did.
It's no accident that Poland has had zero terror attacks. It's easy, no mosques, no attacks.

@MADcHATTER I'll l admit that is shocking that they said that. That does give me pause.

@jnaatjes you sound like a good and reasoned man. Wish I could believe in that utopian world, it would be so much better than the reality of what is.

What gets me is the Muslim community will play this victim card now and forever more. Every time there's an Islamic attack they'll pull out this this attack.

@David_Reynolds Right you are on that.