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Universal Basic Income, your thoughts? Please spend 18 minutes to watch the video before responding. Please...

LastLiberal 6 Feb 23
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0

I think eventually we will have to have UBI. I watched this video the other day. And if robots and AI are gonna take all the jobs away, what other choice is there. But it has to be enough to live on.
The first time I heard about this idea it was in a book. Robert A Heinlein For US the living, a comedy of customs. And I like alot of the ideas of the "future history" he details in that book. The UBI was called something else, but that's what it was. They also had a great idea on the end of the Federal Reserve, and an answer to endless wars, and a system for prisons that I thought was very interesting. I would like our future to follow his ideas.

0

Sorry, but I don't need to see a video to try to justify a UBI.......... It flies in the face upon which our Economy is made great........ No aspect of Marxism will make America Great. Capitalism will collapse. Half the country will just stop working and the Economy will tank, because a nation of over 300 million will not be able to sustain itself.

0

I'm going to say first and foremost that economics are not my strong suit, but I'll say that I am not very optimistic that UBI will be a great success, especially with the set of political ideas in play from the more liberal side of the spectrum.

I have been trying to find information from some of the results from some of the test cases, particularly from the Ontario test case, which was ended by the Conservative government for unsustainability, though no citations were credited.

Mincome, a UBI test in Manitoba, which was tested does seem to show positive effects, with little negative effects on the labour market, the male labour force was reduced by 1%, the married women labour force reduced by 3%, and the unmarried women reduced by 5%. There also seemed to be a case for less medical treatment from workplace accidents.

What I am worried about are a few things:

One of the issues with the late roman empire (apart from all the war) was a consistently deflating currency, and they had a massive grain handout system which was started by Emperor Augustus, and later expanded by Emperor Trajan. This kept on expanding, though it should not be thought of as a universal welfare system or, even comparable to UBI. The reason I bring it up, is in the latter days of the Empire especially, Rome subsumed large amounts of neighboring tribes, and differing cultures who didn't share Roman values, and would be recipients of said grain nonetheless, and usually wouldn't assimilate all that much, if at all. If these tribes were ever inflamed, it would usually cause civil unrest, or rebellion. These new citizens were recipients of Roman education and grain, but didn't put anything back into the system, making them more of a financial burden.

Now if you look at our political climate currently within the west, we have many countries that are trying to pilot test UBI, and it has been tested a few times, the ones I have cited have positive results, I have hear of some with negative results. Europe currently already has large social assistance programs as well. What we are having problems with now, especially in the US, but more so in Europe is the idea of border control vs open borders. Guess what? The moderate to the far left seem to be in favor of UBI, and the far left are in favor of Open Borders. The far left also believes in political multiculturalism, which is the politicized form of cultural relativism, which means that they will not be promoting cultural assimilation. The US having sanctuary sanctuary cities is definitely not gonna make it easier either, especially since some wings of the Democratic party want to give voting rights to illegal immigrants. If UBI fails, and people illegal immigrants are living of UBI, why would they vote to end it? What would their incentive be? Especially if they haven't assimilated, and have nothing in common with their American neighbors, assuming that it would even be possible for illegal immigrants to get onto the program.

A final question, what are the steps to be taken if UBI turns out to be a disaster? And what happens if the far left push for a doubling down, which is completely possible, and wish to expand on the UBI system?

I'll end it there, but these are my biggest concerns.

3

Whether people like it or not, the time will come when UBI is necessary. The French Revolution teaches what happens when people are hungry in mass numbers. The only way to stop it would be to outlaw robotics for manufacturing or any profit in general so that jobs aren't taken but that is ridiculous. With robotics there is not as much room for human error so the product overall is better. It is possible to not give people money if there is free housing and electric along with some kind of food bank or food stamps, but one way or another, something will have to be done soon.

0

Every society, organization, or even a family, in order to function, needs both a carrot and a stick to encourage members to behave properly: to be productive, to be kind, NOT to be selfish, NOT to take advantage of others, etc, etc...Hunger is the best motivator for some people to get working; money and power is for others; for some -creativity and excitement, etc.. Make no mistake-both positive and negative simulators are needed for most people. Of course, there are people on both sides of the spectrum. Some are so motivated and energetic that they do not need any additional stimuli to be productive and creative. (They become billionaires). On the lower end, there are folks who cannot be motivated whatsoever-they either lack intelligence, or energy, or health, (physical, or/and mental) to contribute. In my view, that's for whom "the floor" is needed. But this "floor" has to be managed extremely carefully, so as not to discourage those, who are marginally productive to slide down on it. that would move the whole curve downward/leftward and the whole society would suffer.

0

The goal of any economy is to create more cheaper and better products and services, that is hard because we have limited resources. If you just give people a bunch of money then the prices of products and services will inflate and rise accordingly (UBI is retarded). Until and unless robots make everything free and there is no scarcity, im not supporting UBI.

I will support UBI if robots make everything free and there is no scarcity. We will find out when we get there.

@Kahoot Millions of people without spending power is the first and most potent ingredient of an insurrection dish that I have no desire to taste.

@LastLiberal true. There has to be some sort of redistribution. I just don't know if UBI is the way.

@Kahoot I wasn't sure either until recently. Think of the remote rural communities with a population of, let's say, 500. The "freedom dividend" (genius labeling by yang here lol) will immediately flood that particular market with 500,000 dollars a month. It would be an economic explosion. That entire community would be employed almost immediately

@LastLiberal I have to think more. Ill get the answer in a week.

2

If implemented correctly it could help ease the transition to a new system of work. It would put a floor under society that will be dealry needed in the future.

1

I did listen to the interview and while some of it makes sense, I still can’t get my head around just giving people money to sit home. How much alcoholism and drug addiction will we be funding? How will people be motivated to get back into the workforce? How much control over our lives will be giving the government when they pay so many of us our “salaries”? Finally, let’s say that I have a job that remains viable and I get up every morning and go to work while most of my neighbors hang around the neighborhood have coffee, drink a couple beers and play some horseshoes. How do you keep me motivated to work when I come home to seeing that?

I watched this last time it was posted; the whole podcast. You have valid concerns. However, there has to be a safety net, especially in light of what is coming for our economy. A great society does not let its people starve in the street. Plus, how great a living can anyone afford on $1k a month? You want more than a bare subsistence for your household? You bloody well work for it. Just like now. Personally, not only do I think it is a great idea, but I do not intend to collect mine. Not until I am unable to work and then only in the event I cannot afford my retirement (a very real possibility). I will still support the idea out of compassion for my fellow humans and to play my part in creating such a great society. It is not about what other people do, it never was. It is and always will be about what YOU do. So don't sweat what the losers do with the money. Enough good will come of it to more than balance the scales on the whole.

@James I think the UBI ( freedom dividend ) would be a major boon. I can see that if started soon would help adjust the value of "work" . It would give many caregivers the option to stay home and raise thier family. Because thier income could be easily replaced. It might aslo encourage people to pool resources and to focus more on their immediate community and family. I of course have reservations about giving that much power to the state but I'm not sure that it could be administered by any other institution.

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