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How Rationalizable is Politics?

Lots of social science researchers seem to indicate that politics is significantly or mostly irrational, and heavily influenced by psychological factors including personal morals, self- and social- or tribal-identity, biases and ideological beliefs. Standard ideologies such as capitalism, socialism, libertarianism, fascism, Christianity and so on all seem to get it mostly wrong. They define people and politics according to intellectual concepts and theories that are not well-grounded in the reality of human cognitive biology and social behavior. They are reality- and logic-detached to varying degrees.

By looking at what politics is made of, one can see that facts, reason, and often belief about what is best for the country are necessary ingredients for most people. Almost no one who engages in political discourse would claim they rely on lies, deceit or flawed partisan reasoning, and they usually claim their policies are the best for the country, or nearly the best. Since concepts of valid fact, sound reason and especially, what's "best for the country" are essentially contested concepts, disagreements about them are unresolvable by facts and logic alone. Only compromise (~democracy) or force (~authoritarianism) can resolve disputes.

If one accepts that account of political reality as more true than false, then it arguably provides a basis to rationalize politics relative to what it is now. By considering 💡 fidelity to less biased truth and facts, (ii) fidelity to applying less biased reasoning to the truth and facts, (iii) service to a broadly defined, transparent, competition of ideas-based conception of service to the public interest, and (iv) reasonable compromise as core political morals that transcend all other sets of morals and ideologies, politics is arguably made somewhat more rational by forcing less biased perceptions of facts and less biased reason into policy debates.

Yes, ideologues of all stripes will firmly assert they only apply unbiased facts and reason to their brand of politics and service to their conception of the public interest. Only the political opposition is flawed, but not themselves. Social science says most all of us are significantly flawed, regardless of how we think of ourselves and our politics and that is a significant factor in why politics is as irrational (and arguably immoral) as it is now.

Question: What is the flaw(s), if any, in that perception of politics and the underlying logic?

Germaine 6 Feb 21
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4 comments

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As soon as someone says they are unbiased, a red flag goes up in my mind. I don't think such a thing is possible in politics or with anything else, for that matter. You can only be rational inasmuch as you are aware of your own biases and work to eradicate as much as you can. This is possible only through constant discourse and interaction with all manner of ideas, and also constant re-evaluation of your own thinking. Most of us have a natural desire to want to plant our feet and identify as "Party X", whatever it may be, and then we learn all the biases and prejudices of that party, and in effect, close ourselves off from learning anything outside of it.

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The potential flaw is that each individual has the tendency to align with a particular group or faction and strictly adhere to its principles or guidelines, and do not take the time to think beyond their own views and or prejudices.

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I think the issue is that after the loss of a religious belief system, which unified and structured our values, our values as a society became fragmented. So we are currently living in a society where a variety of differing value systems form varying different political ideologies. The political system that one holds seems rational because one's values inform one's political outlook.

Of course it is obvious if you value liberty, self expression, and personal agency, you would find the mere idea of taking away the freedom to speak as offensive. If however, your values toward such things are overshadowed by the value of protecting the weak/ marginalized/ vulnerable, it is rational to betray your values on liberty for your values of protectionism.

I would say that valuing things is natural, and has a tendency to be irrational, because you can value pretty much anything. I think it should be one's goal to try to find the highest value, and to rationalize a morally/ ethically coherent philosophical and political view from the highest value will likely produce the most reasonable, and moral political system.

This is why the leftists are so annoying, they pretend there is no inherent meaning/ purpose/ truth in the world, but then try to be political activists. On top of that, they seem to have a semi-coherent (but false) political world view. You cannot be nihilists, post-modernists, socialists, feminists, identitarians, and environmentalists at the same time. You cannot say that you don't value anything, and then have a set of values at the same time.

@Daryl
I would say that a religious system is more cohesive than a secular value system, I wasn't speaking to the quality of the moral doctrine. Communities don't exactly come together to celebrate, and commune around Voltaire, though maybe they should.

"I agree. That is why I envision service to the public interest as including respect for liberty, self expression, and personal agency to the extent it is compatible with civil society and social progress."

Can you please elaborate on this, do you think that individual expression and liberty is alright, unless it threatens civil society and social progress? And how do you define social progress? because progression could be for the better or the worse, such was the case for the latter period of the Roman Empire for example.
That is a very easy claim to make unless you know intuitively what social progress looks like, and people need freedom of speech, and liberty to temporary civil society's norms of the sake of real progress, so if I understood you correctly, then I would say I have to disagree.

"Politics and enlightened wisdom are (or ought to be), IMHO, all about rationally balancing competing and/or conflicting conflicts and morals in complex modern societies"

You can't have morals without values, so I would say the value proceeds the morals.

I would also argue that it is almost an oxymoron to suggest that valuing individual liberty, for example, could be a tyrannical absolute. There are some values that cannot be balanced, you actually need liberty, and freedom of speech to have all the other values, and to mediate between them.

I am surrounded by leftists in my art program, most of them do ascribe to intersectional feminism, are socialist, have typically read or are at least familiar with the works of Karl Marx, and at least one of the other major postmodern philosophers, usually Foucault. They, for the most part have a relativist moral view, and only see the west as an unjust hierarchy, that oppresses. That is what we are taught, that is what my fellow students believe, and their art reflects their beliefs, so to suggest that I may be biased, though it could be true, suggests I haven't done my due diligence. It could be the case that we are dealing with different leftists, it's not like they are all the same. I would say that the different, to borrow a Nietzschean term, Slave Moralities, that are pushed in the Universities don't simple coexist, they mesh together perfectly, and that is because they come from the same types of theories. Intersectional Feminism comes from Critical Race Theory, and Critical Gender Theory, which are subsections of Critical Theory. But it seem to unless you are making the "no true Scotsman" claim.

@Daryl
I would agree with your definition on social progress, my assumption was that you were referring to social progress as social justice, which would be converting hierarchies into egalitarian, non-meritocratic, anti-hierarchical clubhouse of excess compassion, with a weekly circle-jerk about how diverse and virtuous everyone is. Maybe I am more biased than I think... It's the art school.

I see what you are saying, when I bring up values vs morals, I will adopt your definitions, as they they are the proper way of using the terms anyhow. I think what I may have meant by my use of "value" might be most closely related to the idea of a first principle. In which case I may have to restructure my argument, so thanks for that.

Let me just give you an example of how ridiculous some of the ideas are: During an art critique a male student displayed his drawing in a frame on the wall. The main criticism were not the formal qualities of the drawing (like line, shading, composition, etc.), but that the frame was displeasing because it is patriarchal. It is patriarchal because it borders, encloses, protects and divides the image from the viewer/ the wall/ the outside world.
I wouldn't call this thinking a product of liberal thinking, this is from Critical Theory, which is leftist in nature, because it is anti-hierarchical, liberalism is not.

And the "no true Scotsman" claim was coming from the assertion that "rightists" are often incapable of differentiating between differing denominations of leftism, which on average, I can agree with. You went on to say that we see leftists quite differently, and I may have made an unnecessary logical jump based on a low resolution conception of your statement, so that was my fault.

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In the absence of religion, politics becomes the new religion.

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