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God kills motherfuckers, thou shall not kill. Government kills bitches in war, makes it illegal to kill. Government steals via taxes, says don't steal. Atheists replace God with Big Government. Might makes right. Theres no difference between the two.

Beachslim 6 Mar 1
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The difference between God and Big Government is that we require government to rule over society to keep chaos from occurring. Government is a necessary tool. Whether big or small government is more valuable depends on what sort of tool we need most. God is unnecessary. It's not a tool anyone uses.

Yer blind and don't even know it. Opposite of woke

@Beachslim Nope. People sometimes accuse me of being blind because I try so hard to see so much...but my attempts pay off in the end, and eventually I typically end up seeing more than they ever did.

@MrShittles why do some governments such as North Korea and muslim countries act.....or shall I say, are God, one and the same? Stop trying to see and actually see, that's what makes you blind. Government is a fictional character

@Beachslim It is my opinion that "Do not try, only do" is b.s. Yoda didn't know what he was talking about. Trying is all we are capable of...and so I will continue to do what I've always done: trying to see.

Government is not a fictional character. Government provides real stuff. It's a real structure within society.

Obviously, some governments try to appeal to people's religious side to gain control over them. Other governments discourage certain religions...such as China...because their governments perceive those religions as competitive secondary governments that distract loyalty and energy away from assisting the nation.

Again though...the difference is that we require government, or there will be no organization that prevents everybody from collapsing into civil war and eating our neighbor's pets for protein, which will often be followed by our neighbors shooting us for eating their pets...and then everybody just collapses into a feud, and whoever has the most guns and can hide their basement full of canned foods the best wins and gets the prize of ruling over the scorched, barren wasteland once called Earth, and spend their life hunting for Twinkies and fast food products...because a lot of that stuff just doesn't age. I've found McDonald's fries in my car that were probably there for years. They look the same as when they initially fell between the seats.

@MrShittles whether the illusion be government or god, that's the stuff that brings your order.

@Beachslim Let's imagine a world in which a God does not exist. I can't think of any way that world would look different, necessarily, than the one we are currently living in.

Now, let's imagine a world in which government does not exist. If government does not exist, there is no force to manage the complexities of maintaining a society that an individual both lacks the power to do, and the knowledge and time to do...hence...the scenario in which I shoot your pets for protein, or you shoot my pets for protein, and then I shoot you for protein, or you shoot me for protein, and then everybody shoots everybody else for protein.

@MrShittles you think you're unique but there are atheist countries that are communists all over the world, Russia, North Korea, china, etc. There are people who believe in god and then theres people who believe in government. I like the people who believe in God better. Atheists are a special kind of stupid, they think they are morally and intellectually superior yet most people wouldn't want to live in a shithole atheist country like North Korea despite them being morally and intellectually superior in their minds

@Beachslim Everyone who believes in God also believes in government. Like I've repeated 40,000 times (and explained well)...you need some type of government.

The reason why you see a lot of communistic atheistic nations (noting that Russia is currently mostly Christian...making me wonder if the stuff about soviet era Russia being mostly atheistic was B.S.) is that atheism is a pretty valuable tool for many governments to use...especially governments with strong central governments...and strong central governments that like to do a lot of social engineering, like communistic governments, tend to like to use every tool they can get.

Religions, unlike atheism, function as competitive secondary governments some strong central governments would like to be rid of, so they often support and encourage the growth of atheism.

It's noteworthy that until you get to the point of being a communistic nation...the lower the religiosity of a nation, the higher the average standard of living tends to get. This is presumably merely be a correlation, rather than religion actually causing decreased standards of living...but I don't think we have any reason to believe atheism makes things worse. I think it's more likely that broke people are going to be more religious than being religious actually causes people to be broke.

And...with the above reasoning in mind, you could argue that religious diversity functions as a defender of individual rights, at times. When you've got a lot of different worldviews in a country, nobody will be happy unless everybody is given a lot of freedom to do what they want to do

However, no matter what your religion is, other religions rooted in God-belief will be false, which will mean other disadvantages in terms of lacking an accurate view of reality which may cancel out any gains.

@MrShittles ha! Communist countries are the most poor. Your belief that atheist communist countries have more wealth is false. Quite the opposite. Laziness breeds poverty.

@Beachslim Like I said...until they become communist regimes...and I provided an explanation for that.

I did not say atheist countries are more wealthy. I said that atheist countries have higher standards of living in a specific, and very relevant context.

Atheism is like a weapon. Good people can use it, or bad people can use it. It's the simple lack of a belief in God. All it means is that various flawed worldviews will be absent. That can have a mixture of pros and cons. I listed some of the cons. The pros are just...generally...avoiding the cons various other flawed worldviews have.

If you have a government that wants to stomp out worldviews that distract from loyalty to the state...of course that government is going to encourage atheism, through stomping out religions that distract from loyalty to the state.

That brand of atheism, however, may include a kind of unquestioning reverence for authority that is in no way comparable to the atheism in western nations such as Germany, Canada, the U.K., France, The U.S., Norway, Sweden, and those sorts of nations with similar governments and a reverence for individual freedoms, such as Japan too.

@MrShittles fake laugh serious question: are you high? First you said that God is not real, and then you said religion can compete with government, but, government is real! How can a fiction compete with something real? Both are imaginary. Canada is full blown communist now, or really close

@Beachslim No...I'm not high, but you seem to be. Canada is in no possible way a communist nation. Nobody says it is who have any idea whatsoever what they're talking about. All they have is more social programs than the United States. They can still vote for multiple parties...they have more options than the U.S. gets, actually. Capitalism still runs things there. If Canada is a communist nation...you live in a bizarre world in which pretty much the only first world nation that's not communist is the United States, and perhaps any other wealthy nations that lack universal healthcare...and I'm not sure many of those exist, except for the U.S., unless we're talking about oil-rich nations like Saudi Arabia.

For Canada to be communist...you've pretty much got to label Germany and France and the U.K. and Norway and Sweden as communist too...and by your definition communist nations have the best standards of living on Earth, and, except for the U.S., are the wealthiest nations, per person, on Earth.

Regarding this statement of yours:

"First you said that God is not real, and then you said religion can compete with government, but, government is real! How can a fiction compete with something real? Both are imaginary."

That is completely, 100% nonsensical. Do you not understand what an abstract concept is? An abstract concept, like the idea of God, or government, doesn't have to exist as a physical object or physical presence to affect things. For example, regardless of whether a God exists or not, the idea of god - the fact that people's belief in God can alter their behaviors - can affect things. Similarly, government, like mathematics, is an abstract concept that governs nations.

Now...what sort of hallucinogenic or other psychology-warping substance have you been using of late? I hope it's safe. Don't sniff random cleaning products or drink hand sanitizer for the alcohol content, or sniff Sharpie markers. You're better off just using pot or booze, because that's designed to be safely consumed by people. With a lot of other self-made stuff...bathtub gin and whatnot...that's more of a grab bag.

@MrShittles you don't like your freedom very much do you? If you love communism so much, go to North Korea, it's the closest thing to Marxism you'll get.

@Beachslim What does North Korea have to do with anything? When I did I come close to implying that I like North Korea?

Are you honestly comparing CANADA to North Korea????? People in Canada are no less free than Americans. They just have different types of freedom.

Furthermore...if you are calling Canadians communists...what the heck is so bad about communism in your eyes? You get free dental care, your standing of living is wonderful, and you live in one of the happiest nations on Earth...just like Germany and the U.K. who are...perhaps...also "communist" in your eyes.

Those countries all value freedom of speech just about as much as the U.S. does. They do have a few more limits on it...but freedom of the press/respect for individuality/voting rights...you can't be pro-U.S. without being pro U.K., Canada, Germany, France, and other western European nations or you're just splitting hairs.

So...in Scotland, (part of the U.K.) about the worst thing I've heard related to a lack of freedom of speech was that some guy had a pay a fine for engaging in a crude joke involving Nazism, in which he taught his dog to respond to Nazi commands...I think what happened was that the guy wanted to annoy is girlfriend so he taught her dog to bark when he said "gas the Jews." In Britain, I believe they have some kind of rule as well in which you can be legally punished for, perhaps, something like insulting people in the street continuously...although it doesn't seem to be a law that's put into practice often. In Canada...distributing certain symbols that encourage hating particular groups, such as swasticas, may be illegal. Some European nations have made Holocaust denial a crime.

And I don't agree with any of that. One thing I do like about America better than pretty much every other country, is our greater freedom of speech. However...those nations all have those laws out of concern for the same sorts of threats shouting "fire" in a crowded theater may cause, when there is not actually a fire...so there is somewhat of a sound motivation for that sort of behavior.

Now, let's compare that to China...an actual communist nation, or North Korea...a nation that some people would describe more as a dictatorship than a communism, but with even harsher strategies for attempting to design their culture than China.

In China, while watching pornography is legal...the distribution of pornography, of any kind, is illegal. One person was sent to life in prison for it. The state controls the press. In North Korea...it is illegal to wear blue jeans, and citizens are forbidden to buy international airplane flights to other countries.

We're talking about the difference between crushing, severe penalties for trivial behaviors and massive, life-altering forms of censorship...versus the wrong (in my view) but ultimately mild inconveniences related to censorship that occur in those western European nations I mentioned. Also, of course, those European nations often have broader voting rights than we do in the U.S., due to them often having more than 2 political parties to choose from.

@MrShittles that analogy of telling fire is stupid, I doubt anybody is dumb enough to believe there is an actual fire and people could figure it out pretty quick. There are no laws against saying fire either and it's not actively censored. Canada locks up people in hotels for entering the country and arrests and fines those who refuse to stay in the hotel. Which is stupid because they are already arrested in the hotel and paying 2000 a day by force. Any time government gives you free shit you lose your freedom and become more monitored and controlled, if that's what you want, I reccomend you visit a prison, just break some laws and you get a high standard of living with free healthcare

@Beachslim I'm going to exit this conversation because it's proving to be about as productive as trying to hammer a nail into a two-by-four with my forehead. We're not going to get anywhere. I shall never convince you of anything. You shall never convince me of anything.

@MrShittles smart fella

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