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I was wondering... Why do you think people outside the US are so interested in the presidential election controversy? Whether Trump won or Biden won, what is going to happen in the US in the next four years will probably have very little impact on the daily lives of people outside the US. Do you think because the election controversy is scandalous? People love scandals and negatives; bad news always travel faster than good news, no? It is probably human nature and the media are good at exploiting it. In that case, it's a little insulting to the people in America, no?
My brain's wandered off... too much wine - again. πŸ˜†

Naomi 8 Dec 20
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3

What happens in the US sends ripples around the world and effects policy all over the world.
Apart from economic and trade ties, the US has helped keep China in check to a degree, which helps many nations.
Also, the results of the election will have a massive impact on the culture war (which is being played out internationally, just not to the same extreme).

2

Whether what happens in the US in the near term is of great concern to the wider world depends on what's actually going on in the US, and in the wider world.

If America ever actually gets bent the whole of the earth will quiver.

America is presently seriously considering getting bent and taking the ultimate pissed.

The world has every reason to prepare and witness.

Hello. Not sure I follow what you mean...
Anyway, I can almost hear my British friends say "We were doing fine before the US existed, so we will do fine afterwards." Lol

Incidentally, since this is a psychology & sociology post, I was wondering more about the perception of people outside the US about the election fraud. I think that there is a "fly-on-the-wall" (is that the right expression?) element to the manner in which the media have been reporting it, exploiting human nature to like scandals and melodramas.

1

At this juncture the media has been reduced to a mere propaganda organ... therefore the truths about goings on anywhere in the world are difficult to ascertain. As Hanno states.. economic "war" is now occurring in many places and this always precedes actual outbreaks of full-on warfare. The US in the past 100+ years has seen many acts of war perpetrated by or involving the US military, the list is quite large. This, coupled with massive arms spending, has given the US much more experience in creating death than any other nation. To his credit Trump has not taken the country to full scale war in his term. I believe that other peoples are very interested if this would continue under a Biden administration or if the US military will be unleashed. Personally I cannot understand anyone supporting a leader who appears as mentally compromised as Biden with access to nuclear weapons and the most experienced death machine in the world.

Hello. I believe that many are more afraid of Harris than Biden.

@Naomi That's good to hear, they should be. An interesting note, people go to war usually with others who are most like themselves.

2

Good question. And here's my answer: should the US go the way of a North Korea or a China, we little guys in the 3rd world will be easy pickings.

Hello. "should the US go the way of a North Korea or a China". That's melodramatic, no? What makes you think that?

@Naomi the Democrat Party, the growing American PC culture, China's hold on many of your politicians, and those Dominion voting machines. Many of your filty rich have already invested in private airstrips and bug-out Bunkers in NZ. I wonder why. These are smart people, but they must be melodramatic as well 😁

@eschatologyguy The reality is, no matter how much we are aware of what politicians or the rich are up to, there is nothing ordinary citizens like us can do about it. How about your country? I thought the relationship between the Philippines and China was improving; they signed a few agreements between them, no?

@Naomi Duterte apparently has the jitters with the thought of a China Biden replacing Trump. The US does have a history of folding its arms while militarily weak democracies are being swallowed up by totalitarian aggressors. Bottom line, the US is only as good for the free world as its president. You ask how people outside the US feel about what's going on in the US, and when answered you say I'm being melodramatic. Are we all supposed to feel as you think we ought to feel?

1

Whether Trump won or Biden won, what is going to happen in the US in the next four years will probably have very little impact on the daily lives of people outside the US.

Really?
The world's biggest military.
The world's biggest economy.
Leading country of the free world.
Etc, etc, etc...
You need to rethink that Naomi.

Hello. So, what do you think will happen in the next four years so much that my everyday life will change drastically? Are you fearing for WW3?

@Naomi I can't speak for @Lightman, but my two biggest concerns are a badly depressed economy and a weaker military. Our allies can afford neither.

@coalburned Economic depression in one country always has a ripple effect on other countries which is bad obviously. As for a weaker military, is that one of the Democrats' policies?

@Naomi Biden hasn't been outspoken about his military plans. My concern is that he'll scale back certain weapons. Granted, more efficient and effective weapons may be on the pipeline.

@Naomi
Wars are not just fought with weapons. Economic war is the modern way and Trump bringing back all the factories and jobs to the US, really hurts China.
Under Biden, one would expect that the Obama trend of short term gains over long term failure will continue and factories and jobs going to China again.

@Hanno But it's AI now that is most likely replacing human workers. It'll soon be nonsensical to blame immigrants or China for steeling jobs.

@Naomi
"As for a weaker military, is that one of the Democrats' policies?"
That's for when they are not yet in full control.

@Naomi Nah.... how many jobs do you think have been replaced by AI?

Hello eschatologyguy. I know I sometimes make myself sound stupid by asking very simple questions, and I don't pretend that I fully understand everything that is going on in the world. It is helpful that I stay away from statements which are full of rhetoric and are not translated into anything tangible.
I still can't help thinking that most ordinary people outside America have been following the news about the US election controversy because it is a scandal and not because they feel that their daily lives are going to be put at risk in the next four years.
So, what do you think will happen in the next four years so much that your everyday life will change drastically?

@Naomi
Nothing wrong with that.
And maybe you are correct that most people fail to grasp the importance of these events and only follow this as if it a soap opera.

Our lives drastically changed with COVID. Imagine living in a world between :

  1. COVID is seen as a nasty flu and we get on with our lives and loose an additional 0,3 % of our population over one year.
  2. COVID is seen as the Black Plague and we close our economy and borders for the next 3 years and still loose 0,3% of our population over 3 years.

In the former not much change, small businesses remains an important part of our lives and we remain free.
In the latter we loose most of the small businesses and became more and more enslaved to a small group of people.

It can get worse than this very quickly. Compare life in Hungary in just 4 years when it fell to communism.
I am not saying this will happen if Biden wins, but the world can change very fast.

@Hanno "but the world can change very fast." Yes, it can for better or worse. I believe that it has changed for better so far. For example, it is a miracle that Brexit is happening without civil war or European war. This is probably the most peaceful independence movement in the world history. Lol

@Lightman Machines and robots have been replacing many human jobs, especially repetitive ones, so why not AI? For example in Japan, they have recently introduced unmanned kiosks; they are entirely run by AI. They already have AI technologies, and ironically, the pandemic has accelerated the use of AI.

@Naomi
I have been involved in several factories over the years. Only one has seen a reduction on manual labour, but a significant increase in H&S and other support staff.
In the other two the number of operators have not changed much in the last 50 years.
They have big machines and equipment and always needed humans to operate them, both physically and mentally. Computers made them more efficient, but still needed human hands... each operator has between 80 and 200 tasks spread over an area.
It will be decades before that change.
The idea that AI will kill all our jobs is simply not true.
They said that when we invented fertilisers and farmers were much less needed.
Then the industrial revolution... then the IT revolution.
There is just so much work to be done, and we invent new things to do.
Right now I am looking for good manual workers... hard to find.

@Hanno I don't think AI will kill all human jobs, but certainly repetitive and routine jobs. Automation/robots continue to replace more factory workers, and those displaced can find jobs in different sectors like transport, construction, administration, etc. Plus, machines still need programmers and other humans for maintenance and repair. I think you're right that it may be becoming harder to find workers with good craftsman skills.

@Naomi
So you begin to understand the importance of having factories and businesses in your own country?
Even if you run the factories themselves with robots, you still need humans to maintain and repair, to market and sell, manage and procure.
The last major factory I worked in employed 650 people of which only 150 actually entered the factory.
Then once a year almost 100 contractors came to help do maintenance.
Move that factory to China and you loose 750 jobs.
Get AI and you loose only 150, and probably create another 200.

It's what will happen in the next thirty years that is more important. What trends that Biden and his team start may have some very bad results.

@Hanno Oh, I understand it all right; I never said that AI would kill all human jobs. I once worked for Toshiba when they had TV and aircon factories in my town. Toshiba had a very good reputation but their products were very expensive. They began to loose the competition against Samsung and other emerging brands and they eventually had to close the factories. It was a different reason all together, irrelevant to automation.

Since this is a psychology & sociology post, I was initially wondering about the behaviour/perception of people outside the US with regard to the election fraud. I find it interesting to observe people.

@Naomi
Most interesting is the responses of non-Americans yes.
I had a good look at my own interest... funny what I found!

But other than my own quirks, I am concerned how the election fraud mechanism is went from Venezuela to the Philippines to the US and where to next?
If this is not stopped then many elections in the future could be compromised, even our own respective countries.
Maybe I am naive and this has been happening since forever, or... there were no actual election fraud mechanism and I am just unwilling to accept the truth.
I cannot say.

@Hanno Like I said before, I believe that all governments are corrupt one way or another. It is only the matter of which government is least corrupt. They are free to make laws, enforce them upon us and bend them if they wish... And it is us who elect them! How ironic!

@Naomi There is a big difference between automation and AI.

@Naomi There is a big difference between corruption... and stupidity and ignorance.

@Lightman I know. Hanno and I left AI and started talking about automation at factories mainly through his factory experience.

1

I don’t care about what happens in your country but Trump horrifies me and I still can’t believe he was ever president. I’m Australian so when he plays his games with China he essentially messes with us your ally and he puts us in chinas firing rhetoric. So only self interest zero interest in the USA and so we are glad he’s on the way out now

Like when Trump provoked Kim Jong-un; Rocket Man, etc. Lol
Nothing bad happened, though. It makes me wonder how seriously America has been seen by the world nowadays. (I know I'm being a shocker. Lol)

Australia and China has been at economic war for some time now and have very little to do win Trump and the US.
But yes, that makes the point does it not? With a weak US China will walk over Australia..

That's pretty shallow thinking even for a Progressive.

6

No Naomi, it may have only limited impact in the next few years, however it will a have a very large impact in the medium and long term.

Personally I do not care for Trump or the Republican Party, however he has become the very unlikely and unexpected last stand to a system that is very unlikely to be good for the majority of people.

Adrian and Tracy explain exactly why below.

4

The USA is a huge factor in the lives of people outside the its borders.
The move toward globalism was well underway before Trump. Now if Biden takes over, it may well succeed.
Globalism without checks and balances? The atrocities of the last century would be a sunny day compared.
We are all capable of evil and like they say "Power corrupts and Ultimate Power corrupts Ultimately"
Don't any of these idiots wanting this power study history?

Hello. We have globalism to a certain extent already, I guess, I cannot see globalism being achieved in a complete form any time soon in the future, especially when the UK is in the middle of realising Brexit.

You can’t seriously believe this

@KC23, @Naomi The idea of a new World Order, the UN making new rules, boundaries and limitations for every country is a terrifying thought, that global communism.

@ScottforKing I don't know... The New World Order is a conspiracy theory, and I will leave it like that for now.

@Naomi I don't know if it's a conscious effort by a few who are trying to bring this about greater world government or it's a Western ideological virus that has affected us into committing social suicide where the rich and powerful are simply taking advantage of what is taking place, but it is taking place.

@ScottforKing And we can't do anything about it, even if it is taking place, because we are not in any position of power. 😟

@Naomi I don't agree, they have power over those who give it away to them. We pay with our freedoms to relieve ourselves of our responsibilities, and this is how others get their power over us.

7

No, I think what happens in the US has a major impact on the hopes/fears held by billions.

The rise of Iran as a nuclear power terrifies the Middle East...
The rise of China as a military and economic power terrifies the Asian Pacific...
The threat of Russia terrifies parts of Europe (other than Germany, France, Belgium, Spain)...

The supremacy of the United States, both economically and military DOES NOT terrify ANYONE...it is welcomed and the failure of the US is seen as allowing the bad things people fear to occur.

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