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Fireside Chat Ep. 90 - Profiting From Other People's Illness

I enjoy Dennis Prager​'s manner and perspective every time I hear him. Listen to the first half of this week's Fireside Chat for his insights on socialized vs. free market medicine.

From the YouTube blurb:
During this week’s Fireside Chat, Dennis talks about the phrase he hears all the time: “People shouldn’t profit from other people’s illness.” Dennis’s response: Why not? Profit incentivizes great and valuable work.

Wordmage 8 July 11
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0

Hello. This is slightly off the topic (sorry), but I was wondering... What will happen in America if someone, say aged 35, is diagnosed with cancer but is too poor to pay for any medical treatment including drugs that may be needed for the rest of his/her life? Thanks for your help.

Naomi Level 8 July 12, 2019

C'mon, HighQ. That can't be true, though I must admit I did wonder about that. 😛

In some cases, people die. It's unfortunate. In others, drug companies subsidize the medication that's needed. That's what they did in my mother's case. Her chemo was subsidized by the company that manufactures the drug. She's been in remission for six (?) years. Maybe seven. Other people get help from friends or philanthropic organizations.

Even when people do have insurance, that doesn't mean all of their expenses are covered. I have a friend who recently had a double lung transplant. He has plenty of expenses that are not covered by insurance, so I (and many others) have been contributing to help with those.

In other cases, people who are wealthy and can afford to help do so behind the scenes, despite their being villainized for being "the one percent." A friend of mine relocated to Houston in a last ditch effort to get treatment for her multiple cancers in a trial that is being run there. A benefactor rented an apartment for her and is paying all of her living expenses while she goes to the treatment center.

In still other cases, many doctors donate their time. There are options, and we do what we can to take care of each other. The United States and its not-quite-free-yet market is not the cold, callous place that detractors try to make it out to be. Yes, there are some people who fall through the cracks, but we try to eliminate those cracks where we can. What we don't do is force euthanasia on patients to cut costs for our socialized medicine program. We leave that up to France and the UK.

Thank you Wordmage for the insight. Interesting. So, if I decide to live in America, I'd better make sure that I'm financially sound and many people like me just in case I might need their financial support.

Incidentally, euthanasia is "illegal" in the UK.
Meanwhile, in 2016, a law came into force in France granting terminally ill patients the right to continuous deep sedation (CDS) until death. ... The law draws a distinction between CDS and euthanasia and other forms of sympton control at the end of life. France is the first country in the world to legislate on CDS.
Just for your information.

@Naomi "Incidentally, euthanasia is "illegal" in the UK."

And yet, in recent months we had news here of a disabled baby being condemned to die against the parents' wishes and despite an offer of intervening, life-saving surgery at no cost (as I recall) from a US specialist/team.

@Naomi @Naomi "So, if I decide to live in America, I'd better make sure that I'm financially sound and many people like me just in case I might need their financial support."

Financially sound is always preferable, isn't it? It also enables us to help others.

@Naomi "the right to continuous deep sedation (CDS) until death. ... The law draws a distinction between CDS and euthanasia ..."

And apparently France sometimes enforces that "right" against the patient's family's wishes, per recent news. 😟

Ah, that. I seem to remember that the American specialist also concluded that he couldn't have saved the baby, realising the seriousness of the condition... You're well informed. 🙂

Absolutely Wordmage.

2

I think the government could help the medical situation by reducing patent protections. Look, I agree it costs a lot of money to create medicine. But to allow a company 25 years protection is too much. I mean I could live with that, if the government stopped allowing extensions for any minor change. Allow the base drug to become public and grant a protection for the change. I also believe these megacorporations should not be allowed to keep the patent protections when they buy smaller corporations. Allow them to take the company but the patents disappear. It would reduce the drug costs a great deal.

0

Profit also incentivizes lies, and about half of medicine is about as useful as the advice in an investment newsletter. How do you know if the new drug is better than the old one? Will this pill prevent your heart attack? Decrease the chance by how much? So you actually need an MRI scan and surgery for your back pain, or will it go away all by itself in a year if you do nothing (but 12 months if you have the surgery). Should you stent that right coronary artery? How long do you take an antibiotic for your pneumonia, and which one? How do you know? Ask your doctor? Does your doctor have the time even to look it up on the PubMed? Do you pay him or her to do so? Does anybody?

The problem with capitalism is that it works great for frequent and repeat customers, like people who eat at your restaurant or shop in your store. It's just terrible for once-in-a-lifetime expenses like that lawyer for your divorce or that money-pit of a house you just bought, or that can't-lose investment in that oil well (or small business or whatever). Or that stage III cancer you just discovered. Wups.

All that banking corruption that caused the Great Recession of 2008? It's all alive in the US health industry also. It's no more rooted out there by the free market than it was in the investment banking industry. You're not smart enough even to hire the people who are smart enough to see through the layers and layers of bullshit. Nor am I. But I understand I am not, which is why I don't buy investment newsletters (who writes those at minimum wage, anyway? Ever wonder?). The idea that you are smart enough to figure it out, ala bond tranche risk ratings (lies) or Consumer Reports for something else, or whatever, is the great conservative pipe-dream. How well did that recession work out for you, eh?

Do you know what happened in the "free market" in the life insurance industry, because it was heavily regulated? People sold lower and lower and lower, and then when it came time to pay up, they declared bankruptcy and fled. You could go after them (in theory) if you had the money, but you probably did not. And also, you were dead.

With the health industry you're not dead, but you're often too ill to be very effective. And you're not going to fight the system on your own, any more than your employee union is going to really duke it out with the giant multinational that employs you (another libertarian wet dream, there). So, the free market as we know it, just does not deliver. So, you get screwed.

Also, the "free market" assumes that the regulators have not been bought. Why are you still paying $100 a bottle for insulin, a century-old drug? Why doesn't somebody import $20 insulin from India and sell it here, and screw the small drug cartel that controls the US market? Well, because it's illegal, is why. So why is it illegal? You tell me. We have hit a free market failure-mode. Elections cost money. Corporations have it. You do not.

Babou Level 7 July 11, 2019

I don't have the answers to all your questions – you packed a lot of them into that rant.

However, your characterization of the recession of 2008 having been caused by banking corruption is an oversimplification. Doubtless there were corrupt actors in the banks, but the problem stemmed just as much from government involvement and regulation. For instance, the housing boom & crash that we witnessed came as a direct result of the government's requiring banks to give loans to people who couldn't actually pay them back in a grossly misguided attempt to counter alleged racism. It wasn't racism that kept people from getting home loans, it was finances.

Also, we're well aware that we don't actually have a free market in our medical/healthcare industry right now. There is massive government regulation there, too. The fact is, nobody is smart enough to "hire the people who are smart enough to see through the layers and layers of…" because these economic matters are too complex for anybody to fully understand & predict. Those mythical "people who are smart enough" simply don't exist. So why do you think we should give the power to government to regulate the market, if you can't find someone who smart enough to see through the layers…? Why do people assume that being in government somehow gives these pencil pushers greater insight and a higher intelligence quotient? It's an oft-observed and well documented fact that it doesn't.

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