Hello. While I was reading your comment, I was thinking of boxing with regard to physical strength.

@Naomi

Yes, that's one. I was watching yet another damned youtube course on evolutionary psychology recently and one of the lectures was about our overlapping trait curves, and while there's a hell of a lot of overlap in many many ways, on place where there's virtually ZERO overlap in one category: punch impact force. Barring disability, the weakest of males punch harder than the strongest of females. Virtually ZERO overlap in punch power.

I have no moral answers to this subject. Aside from trying to voice our assertions and objections with understanding and love, I have no idea how to approach some politicized topics are just too freaking toxic to digest, even together.

@govols

the weakest of males punch harder than the strongest of females

What you are referring to is one study from the University of Utah which tested 20 men and 19 women, all of whom were supposed to be in the same general active range. This is hardly a scientific test indicative of the population at large. Try testing who punches harder between Ben Shapiro and Gina Carano. Look at Billie Jean King beating Bobby Riggs in tennis in the 70's.

If we are talking about boxing, why don't we put all sports into classes based on ability, and get rid of gender segmentation?

[theconversation.com]

@govols

One of the biggest fouls committed by the trans community was:

A trans (biologically male) athlete competed in a women's MMA fight and cracked the skull of the female fighter. The trans athlete did not disclose that he was a male.

That's vile.

Then the trans community gave the trans athlete an award for courage. That's vile.

The trans community is not looking to make friends.

The female that faced the male athlete is the courageous one.

@govols Well, as times change and something becomes a new reality, my attitude is how we can deal with it pragmatically. For example, in England, it seems that we have more rain and therefore we seem to have more flood problems, and whether agree or disagree with climate change, if that is a new reality, we must deal with it, and that may involve making new rules and regulations.

@jaymaron I'm with you. Gender-specific biological physical differences are something we can never overlook.

@JacksonNought

I have no doubt there is overlap, ant study remains. Still, diseign and write that research proposal; who could do so and get away with it? I want to test upper body strength of a hundred female boxers against a hundred male incels; anybody want to fund the study and publish the paper?

Yeah, I'm sure...

Hello JacksonNought,
"Why don't we put all sports into classes based on ability, and get rid of gender segmentation?
It appears to be a good idea, but since winning is the whole point of any competition, the better the ability, the more chance of winning. And in sports, those who have better abilities, especially physical abilities, would be men, inevitably. Gender equality doesn't seem to work in this particular context.

@JacksonNought

I'm sure a valid handicapping system can be contrived for most sports, but those are leisure activities made possible by the interest of spectators for amusement. I doubt you fill the colosseum with paying customers by providing bouts between perfectly matched champions.

Death to competition. DEATH TO INEQUITY!

We'd have to give all competitions"Drama!" like wrasslin and beauty pageants and relationships.

Oh! the Joy we find in Jesus will this never fu@king end...

@JacksonNought ...or Gina Carano and Jackson Nought.

@govols so watching trans women and women compete wouldn't be exciting and give good drama?

@FrankZeleniuk yes I am sure she is stronger than me.

@JacksonNought

I have no idea. Only time and ticket sales will tale.

Oh, damn. I had (edit: NOT) thought about....that last bit.

I keep telling people there are no non trivial absolutes but it hasn't caught on

Should trans-gender women have their own league? I don't see trans-gender men trying to muscle in on men's league's.

Being cis-gendered transgenderism will always be looked at by me as being a state of confusion. Blacks will argue that no white can speak for them because they could never understand what the Black experience is like. Is Rachel Dolezal an exception? Or the fake Elizabeth Warren, who was chastized for claiming to be part indigenous North American? Can a male really "feel" what it is like to be a woman?
I suggest that we, being an intelligent species, have the ability to comprehend how others "feel" and can assume their "beingness". The more they "feel" they understand another, the greater the ability to feel and act like them but without being them there is always a difference.
It really doesn't matter too much to me how others present themselves or what they think or feel about themselves as long as they are not destructive of others or the society they must live in.

I would not got to China or Africa and think I was Chinese or a Black African. The difference is plain, I am white with caucasian features. Raised at birth, I would probably assume almost completely the culture, language, customs and diet of the society I were raised in but I would never assume I was racially something other than I was and I would probably cry because I was different. In order to enjoy happiness I would have to completely assume I completely Chinese or Black African. But searching for happiness in an objective that can never be realized is a road to unhappiness. Perhaps happiness should not be a goal of the trans-racial or trans-gendered individual because happiness is only found in realized objectives and genetically the goal can never be realized. Happiness must thus be found somewhere else, in other goals and objectives.

It is true that non-cisgendered individuals can be very creative and even dominate the arts. But they can also feel very bitter and destructive victims of others and society. The cancel culture of today is a product of that victimhood, in my view.

Your opinion of this is of interest to me as I know you have personal experience with this subject.

Hello FrankZeleniuk,
"I don't see trans-gender men trying to muscle in on men's league's."
I read an article some time ago that a trans male boxer beat a biological male boxer in the light-weigh category. They were equalised weight-wise, but I'm not sure if that level of equalisation is good enough. How about differences in muscle and bone development between male and female for example?

@FrankZeleniuk You asked this:

Can a male really "feel" what it is like to be a woman?

And I was going to respond, but you did well enough - no one can KNOW what it is like to be another. The question is almost always asked by the transsexual themselves from the earliest time - how do I KNOW that I feel like the natal sex? I knew that I did NOT feel like the other boys around me. It was obvious by my responses to situations compared to others. I SEEMED to respond more consistently with other girls. Not completely or consistently as I got older because I was being socialized - but I had to monitor my outward expression otherwise I got dirty looks, or bullied for 'wrong think'. We learned to blend in as a defense mechanism and those skills and habits persisted, often well after we no longer needed them (post transition). They often caused us difficulties IN transition.

Perhaps happiness should not be a goal of the trans-racial or trans-gendered individual because happiness is only found in realized objectives and genetically the goal can never be realized.

Body dysmorphia. When you hate some aspect of your body, or are uncomfortable/unhappy in your skin. Primarily dealt with cosmetic surgery - doesn't change you genetics, but helps adjust the person you see in the mirror every day. MANY children have dysmorphia, not dsyphoria and the two are confused (IMO) by therapists and parents. Being happy with who you are is different than what you are.

Story time: I had no sexual feelings for men prior to transition - I had no sexual encounters with men prior to transition, not even a date. I was 'oriented' towards women because, well, I was supposed to be. Then I went on hormones. Just about 2 years later, I was sitting in a classroom at the university during the summer. I always sat in the middle of the 2nd row. Just after class started, a couple of guys came in and the professor made them sit up front for being late/disruptive. Right in front of me. The classroom was warm...bordering on hot. The guys. Well, I could smell them. I was starting to be upset because I had to sit there and tolerate the smell. And then, well shit. I was getting turned on! Oh my god! They smelled....GOOD. Like holy shit good. I've been oriented towards men ever since - having plenty of dates (and more). But my acceptance of women only became secondary, not eliminated. Hormones CHANGED me, mentally and physically. I not only feel like what other women feel, I physically respond that way also. I can tell you other transsexuals have had a similar occurrence, but it is not universal for us based on my discussions with others.

Some day I hope they have gene therapy that changes that hated Y into X!!

@Naomi Age may have been a factor, I don't know. Girls mature earlier than boys and a weight classification of the same young age may explain it. A slender male and a heavier set woman weighing the same perhaps? There are anomalies to everything which makes absolutes impossible.

@Naomi, @tracycoyle Thanks for the reply, Tracy....and Naomi.

On another topic, I clicked in your message to reply and Naomi also came up? Haven't ever seen that happen before. If I want to reply to more than one person I have always had to write in a second person. ?

Back on topic, I don't want to get into any psychology on the matter, I'm not a psychologist although I can get a sense of how they would feel. lol.

I, myself, can only understand the subject through the degrees of liking and disliking as it relates to distance - what I like, I like to be close to and what I dislike I like to be further from. I could say I like everything but I like some things more than other things. putting it on a dichotomous scale, it would be a long way to get to hate, which is a baser human emotion that perhaps is closer to a base human reaction of survival than a rational response in one's environment. Of course, when confronted with hate it is only too easy to return the sentiment.

There are people in the LGBTQ+ that can interact with the cisgender society, I would count yourself among them. But the movement itself is actually very confrontational, disruptive, destructive and even hateful toward society. And violence towards each other is something we should all be moving away from.

What I call level-headed individuals are not destructive to the social construct. People like, Dave Rubin, Tammy Bruce, Camille Paglia, and the like - even Caitlyn Jenner.

Essentially, we have freedom of association and everyone could just do what we have been doing since the dawn of creation, find individuals of like mind and socialize with them, and otherwise interact asexually. Some are obviously going to have lesser choice in their intimate relationships based upon sheer numbers but it is what it is. We all experience rejection whatever our orientation. Rejection that turns to resentment is perhaps what should be avoided.

@FrankZeleniuk Re:

There are people in the LGBTQ+ that can interact with the cisgender society, I would count yourself among them. But the movement itself is actually very confrontational, disruptive, destructive and even hateful toward society. And violence towards each other is something we should all be moving away from.

This is actually my problem with even being considered part of the LGBT movement. First of all, the T part is gender while the LGBQ+ is sexual orientation. Lumping us together made SOME sense as the group, even it's entirety, is a small minority. Lumping them all together gives it SOME political clout but it has become all out of proportion. We are wagging the dog. I reject the trans movement's political efforts - they are doing significantly more damage than benefit. The backlash is happening and is growing. I accept I don't have enough science on MY side of the transsexual argument because we are such a small population AND you'd have to be too intrusive in ordinary pregnancies to be able to get enough data to make some headway.

All I ask is that people ignore the political efforts and look to the individuals. Most transsexuals just want to have normal, average, non-intrusive, non-celebrity lives.

@tracycoyle

The whole thing is political because we were evolving toward individual equality under the law for all.

You may think, it a bit conspiratorial for me to say all the hubbub is actually an all out effort to weaken western civilization in order to establish a global centralized government. Cancel culture is a tool to do just that - cancel culture. Eerily similar to Mao's cultural revolution. The one world government won't do anything for any of the currently defined victim groups being used to attack their "oppressors" once they have been established but the governing body will have goals that will not bode well for most of the current population.

Have you read, Douglas Murray's "Madness of Crowds"?

@FrankZeleniuk

Have you read, Douglas Murray's "Madness of Crowds"?

No, but I am aware of it. From the general commentary I've come across, I doubt I'd be surprised. The interesting thing about a "one world government", which by the way as a sci-fi geekette I long for, is that I can't conceive of such along the model of our Constitution - it will be more authoritarian and therefore likely to ignore, if not outright punish, any minority or dissenting opinions. I can imagine the identity politics advocates amongst the first in front of a firing squad.