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Can someone explain to me what is in an extreme (because I've seen it not just pertaining to politics and on all sides of a situation) person's brain that makes them have to insist they are right, no matter how many facts are placed in front of them?
I regularly post stats from a site that keeps track of covid numbers, siting many references where they got their information, and post how many of closed cases are people who recovered. Most recently, it was 92% recovered, 8% dead.
And this woman is arguing with me that those numbers are wrong because it doesn't list people who have long-term problems due to covid. I was confused by this. If they recovered from covid, but have problems, they still recovered.
I'm one of those dumb people who thinks facts and logic are going to help with the discussion, but that doesn't matter, and it's so frustrating. I like learning, and if you put facts in front of me that show a different view from mine, I like delving into it, but that deosn't seem the way these people function, and it confuses the hell out of me...

ktpinto 7 July 12
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1

Instead of looking at the evidence, or starting with a tentative understanding open to revision, people in the extreme cases start with a conclusion they KNOW is right and nothing will convince them otherwise. It happens in religion as well: some Christians think the world is only 10,000 years old because of how they read Genesis 1-2—and they KNOW their reading is absolutely correct. Others think psychotherapy is wrong because it is not mentioned in the Bible: so every piece of psychological information is filtered through that viewpoint. SJW’s are practicing a religion that defines the state of the world and the side of right, of which they KNOW they are fighting for the right.

The funny thing is she was right, and I told her so. But it wasn't information that was needed on a post that was just giving the number of how many people survived, and I told her that too. And that's when the crazy started.
I guess I'm a very simple girl; I think alive is better than dead; others seem to have to make alive seem bad.

0

Since this whole Covid thing started, I have been bewildered by the fact that some people almost seem giddily happy in their panic. It seems to me like these people were just waiting for some doomsday-style event to happen. When it did, they seized it and it seems like they are loathe to let it go, even when more and more good news is emerging about the waning of the crisis.

I don't know... it's weird.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. It is the victim mentality run amok. Not only can they now be victims, but they can be the voice for everyone else who is dealing with the same problem.
This is akin to the mask-Nazis that seem to be everywhere these days...
What annoys me more is - like many of the other victim-tropes - I've been there, done that. I've had people who survived (myself included) and know people who died. But that doesn't change facts. But "victims" don't like facts...

1

They're NPCs. They can't learn or change their point of view, because they haven't been programmed that way.

Oh my gawd... the world has become a D&D game! 😮
This Dungeonmaster is HARSH!

1

ktpinto, for your first question, after many years reading psychology books to find why my relatives are the way they are, I would say "ego" is what has many giving you opinions and then not listening to yours. The fear of feeling inferior of others can lead to a closed mind. As for a cold virus and recovery, it would seem covid19 is a modified virus, and as with other viruses that the body can not remove, the anti-bodies will mass and detain the offensive viral cells, as with herpes, tb and damaged cells, like 'cancer cells" and others, including pox cells, leading to possible complications later. Debating information from the media is an other problem, as they are paid what to say, many don't understand that either.

I honestly think I may just be too simplistic in my positivism. The site had two options for closed cases: 'recovered' and 'dead'. They didn't go into detail on how the person recovered, just that they did.
But my post was very simple. Just like with hospitals and insurance companies, the patient is either 'discharged' or 'expired'.
Like someone has mentioned below, anything that abuses the body leaves some sort of damage/scar on the body, whether it be literal like an actual scar, or chronic, like a flare up. All adults know this.
Sometimes it's just nice to read - among the horror stories and depressing 'facts' of social media - something positive. But people don't seem to want that.
And yes... 'ego' is a good way of looking at it.
I know I have a rather big one, but when someone gives me intellectual comments - like the ones I'm receiving on this post - I devour, because I enjoy learning. But others just seem to need to be right.

1

Honestly?
It seems that a pretty large part of the population has been Fully Indoctrinated into “FACTS Don’t Matter!!!”

Recall what Biden recently said; “WE Choose TRUTH over FACTS!!!”
Most people who saw that went; “Hunh?!?”
Some people said something like; “Right ON!!! ... YEAH!!!”
Remember ... HE’S the Democrat Candidate for President of OUR United States ...!

Then there’s the OTHER Crowd ... the ones who WANT “Something” to be wrong ...
Basically, their lives are Screwed Up and ... It CAN’T Be THEIR Fault!!! So its GOT to be something else!!!
The virus has affected all sorts of people so it makes a “Convenient Rug” to sweep all their own crap under.
How DARE You Take Away My PERFECT Excuse for being a Failure!?!?

Well, she is a huge follower of Elizabeth Warren...

1

ignorance, willful ignorance, stupidity and pride...sums it up

iThink Level 9 July 12, 2020
2

Many people base their arguments on evidence and facts. Many base their arguments on feelings and experience. They do not believe in truth or meta-narratives. Yet others, are incapable of forming an argument. Communication between these groups is almost futile since they see the world through different lenses.

Xtra Level 8 July 12, 2020

Forgot to mention that you can both be right or wrong. That's always interesting too.

I don't understand why you can't have facts and emotion together. If you feel strongly about something, have the facts to back it up. Is that a skill that has been lost somehow? :/

@Xtra Oh, she was correct in her assessment, and I said so, but it wasn't necessary, and I said that as well. It was a simple post from a site that only gave two options of closed cases: 'recovered' and 'dead'. It was made just to have a little positivity in cyberspace. And she had to harp on facts people already knew, unless they lived in a bubble.

1

One philosopher said that "Mankinds greatest disease is inferiority complex" So that may deal with why they always want to be right". even when they are totally wrong. Like Barry Obama for example.

3

Maybe, what this person is trying to explain to you are the long term effects of RNA and DNA viruses. Although, technically you have "recovered" from the symptoms of the virus, the "signs" of the virus are still present. In pathology these two terms are not interchangeable and do not mean the same thing. The virus is still, in many cases of viral pathogens, lying dormant within the body. The signs (actual presence of the DNA or RNA) are not gone, just the symptoms are gone (you are no longer ill). However, at some moment in time, brought about by either external or internal triggers, the dormancy is broken and you will experience different symptoms of this same virus. Case in point (hopefully this example will be something easy for you to relate to) would be the varicella-zoster virus which causes the symptoms we see as chickenpox. You may recover from these symptoms, but the actual virus is not gone. This virus lies dormant within the cell bodies of dorsal root ganglia and cranial root ganglia. Later an internal or external trigger can bring it out of dormancy and you experience the symptoms of Shingles.

I hope I have helped to clear this up for you, from a scientific perspective.

I only going to respond up to where you said "technically, you have recovered from the symptoms of the virus"
because that's what a "closed case" means. It means you're no longer being treated for the virus. 92% of closed cases ended in recovery, as opposed to death.

Thank you for the information, but all that information doesn't need to be given on a post on facebook that loosely reads "1 million+ [I don't have the exact number in front of me] recovered from covid". Also, she said none of what you did; she posted links and told me I was giving 'misinformation'.

That's like saying "well, her immune system is still compromised" to someone who says their is in remission for cancer. It's known information that doesn't have to be voiced.

Also, there really was no need for "(hopefully this example will be something easy for you to relate to)"; I done graduaded from elamentry skule and evereething. LOL!

@ktpinto the post was not intended to upset you, but to give you the rest of the story, from a scientific stance on viral pathogens and (not fully recovered). To say that one has recovered from the symptoms, does not equate to full recovery from a viral infection. That is like saying that a person who has AIDS has recovered once they are no longer showing outward symptoms of the virus. Or, that a person infected with Herpes only has the virus when they have an outbreak, but is "recovered" when the symptoms are no longer present. You are never fully recovered, you simply are no longer showing outward symptoms.

@DeplorableToo Aw, it didn't upset me at all! When I thanked you for the information, I meant it. I read the whole thing and it was very interesting to me.
And thank you for this post as well. But my point - which may just be too simplistic - is there were two options for the closed cases: "recovered" or "dead".
The same way the media doesn't explain how many of the dead had pre-existing conditions, which would skew their numbers greatly, I don't have access to anything more to elaborate on the living than what this one rare, positive site (that does their research) had and just wanted to give a positive version of what's going on, instead of the hopelessness that the media wants to shove down our throats.
Also, I've been posting the numbers from this site since March, and she chooses now to 'attack'. It's tiresome.

@ktpinto I get it 100%. In my own opinion, the numbers are hyped up over nothing more than a novel influenza virus. I personally feel that the numbers are skewed, with data that is misleading (having read their reported cases criteria). You could basically walk into a clinic with nothing more than a cold, and come out with a positive ID for Covid-19. Especially if the office tested you for antibodies, or didnt test you at all. But, these are my opinions, based on the information on the CDC's website for case criteria. I have nothing else to base it on, and until such time, it will remain as such. Good luck with your friend. I've had problems explaining (even with peer reviewed and puished scientific research papers), to people that the cloth face masks are a complete and utter waste of time.

@DeplorableToo Did I mention I adore your responses? Intellectual, insightful, and non-argumentative. That's all I ask for in the world.
Oh, and I unfriended her. There's just so much disrespect one should have to take on their own Facebook before saying enough is enough.
Besides, this was like her 4th strike already!

@ktpinto, well thank you for your very sweet compliment ❤, and kudos to you for reducing your frenemy list by one. Life is far too short to surround ourselves with toxic people, Lord knows we have enough toxicity in our environment without adding emotional and psychological toxins. Luckily we have a great deal of control over those. 😁

1

You tell them each time they smoke a cigarette their lungs never fully recover from it.
Every time they are exposed to sunlight there skin never fully recover from it.
Every time a married couple has a fight, their marriage never fully recover from it.
You never fully recover from any injury... or pneumonia.
It always leaves scarring that are never as strong as the original tissue.

Hanno Level 8 July 12, 2020

Exactly.
But here's the thing: we all know this. It's a given that your body is going to have some scarring, especially if you have a severe case of... anything.
It seems like some people are just out to crush any version of good news that they can.

1

You are correct; it simply doesn’t make any sense. I have had the exact same reaction from family members. I have even sited news sources they watch yet I get told off and hung up on for my efforts.

And in this case, it's a given.
It dumbfounds me when family members treat others like that (well, not really... there's a reason why I hardly acknowledge my aunts and uncles), but I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
I dunno... if I have a family member who had a severe case of covid (my family had long cases of it, but not severe) I would think I'd rather have them recovered with weak lungs then dead... but what do I know? 😮

@ktpinto It seems to be the case that family and friends are on the “outs” over Covid. I hear this is happening all over. Thanks for your caring words. Nice to talk to someone with common sense.

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