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So, I was wondering... questioning the norm again (a bad habit).

Could polygamy (and polyandry) be legalised/decriminalised or not?

If I ignore all the cultural, religious and moralistic side of the argument for a moment, based on the fact that same-sex marriage is legal now, and some people already practise open marriage/relationship, I have to wonder if there is still any significance to criminalisation of polygamy and polyandry.

Given that such an marital structure is through consent by the adults involved (plus some kind of proof of their financial capacity to support their children in poly households) would that still be anyone else's business?

(Mind you, coping with more than one mother-in-law would be a nightmare.)

I haven't thought it through... What do you think?

Naomi 8 May 24
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2

On the matter of polygamy there has been court cases that have created statutory law thus making the practice illegal, these could be challenged in court as a matter where the state has made a law that pertained to a religious matter. It can be shown that marriage, which includes polygamy existed before the formation of the country of many current governments as a religious institution. The idea of polygamy as being bad came from the catholic church as a edict of the pope so that in it self is a religious preference. In the US it should be a easy matter as our government is prohibited to make any laws effecting religion or the establishment there of, marriage being a religious institution.

KeVince Level 8 May 24, 2020

Hello.
One might say "If monogamy is the norm (by law), isn't the entire society "indoctrinated" into monogamy?" We also take on the cultural values we were brought to believe, whatever they may be.

Interestingly, while I thought that polygamy wasn't a biblical idea, I came across a Christian who argues:

The Christian Scriptures waffle on this idea, i.e. 1 Timothy 3:2, English Standard Version says:"Therefore an overseer [bishop in other translations] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife[.]" This does not say that men lower in the church hierarchy cannot have more than one wife.

As always, there are more than one interpretation of everything.

@Naomi this text refers to the choosing of deacons (people to care for ) widows. there has been different thoughts on this choice. The first is that the married person would be less likely to take advantage of the widows, the other is that they have shown themselves to be faithful with one wife and that maybe they would take another take another one to care for. The only biblical requirement for marriage to another women is that nothing could be taken from the first wife to care for the other wife.

Interesting. Thank you.

2

To defend the status quo, one should first be able to demonstrate that the government has any legitimate authority to meddle in the issue of marriage at all. If not, then it should obviously be decriminalized as none of the public's business.
Maybe it's just me... but I don't know of any such legitimate authority. The fact that they assume the authority anyway, seems simply to be a holdover from an era that was more implicitly theocratic.

Marriage is a religious ceremony. As such, it is explicitly (in the U.S. anyway) not a matter of legitimate public concern.
You could make an argument for civil unions as well, but I think that's an entirely separate thing. That would be nothing more than a legal contract between two (or more...) private citizens. I'm no lawyer, but I don't know why that should be any different than any other contract or "legal partnership".

rway Level 7 May 24, 2020

Hello. What is normal is constantly changing, and intimate relationships come in different forms nowadays. Marriage is a legal contract, but there are many couples (including the couple next door to me) who are not married but have children, and they're happy as family units. Not sure how financial matters such as tax and pension work for them, though.
In the UK, polygamy is illegal, but some people practise it by their religion. Things become complicated, especially, when they lack financial support for their own children, at which point the government has to come to the rescue by providing benefits and allowances. If you are a tax payer, you have to wonder although you understand that the welfare of children is important, why you must support poly parents who go against the law in the first place while you are a good law-abiding citizen adhering to monogamy. It becomes the mockery of the law, doesn't it?

@Naomi
Hi Naomi,
Yes, societal norms are always changing, but what is "right" doesn't change.
I think, as a general rule of thumb, that if a new cultural trend requires changes in the law; then the law was inappropriate the whole time... it's just that nobody cared before.
If those changes are complicating taxes, pensions, health plans, etc... that is an indicator that we've allowed those things to become inappropriately intrusive into private concerns.

The Culture exists in the private sphere, and Government exists in the public.
And never the twain should meet.
It's nobody's business how you organize your household and your relationships.
Pedophilia is still illegal. Parents or Legal Guardians are still legally responsible for their dependents' welfare, and for their actions in the community to some extent; no matter what their "family" looks like.
From an American perspective: The Government has no right to mandate/prohibit, encourage or discourage any religion or religious practice. But they do have a right, indeed a duty, to hold those individuals accountable to the same secular standards as everybody else while they do it.
Freedom of Religion does not imply freedom from the Law of the land.
The Law can't target religious practices purely on religious grounds, but any practice that violates existing Law is still illegal, by definition.
If your religion "allows" you to marry a 14-year old, that's your business. If that "marriage" includes violating her rights as a juvenile in any way, including consummation, then you're just a rapist. A "free pass" from your religion has no authority in secular Law.
That's why Satanists can't have human sacrifices. 🙂
That's also why I think Churches should be taxed like everybody else.

3

Howdy @Naomi

You can view this as a purely libertarian matter, with all transactions being between consenting adults. But this only works theoretically.

In actual experience, polygamy is quite ugly. Old, powerful men choose young, powerless girls to be their wives. And I deliberately use the term "girls." Middle school aged children. This is revealed in criminal polygamy trials in the US and autobiographies of women who escaped Islamic countries.

In the US, polygamy sects are associated with welfare scams. The husband might have a job. His "wives" collect welfare as single mothers. All while bemoaning their persecution by a bigoted society.

Hello. The article regarding Utah and the LDS you posted a few days ago actually got me thinking. Lol
It seems correct that polygamy is associated with abuse against women and children - historically and culturally. But then, polygamy refers to one man with multiple wives. What about polyandry, i.e., one woman with multiple husbands? Would that create just as much as domestic abuse? (It sounds useful in terms of getting manual chores done. Lol)
I've learned a little about LDS-style abuse. Decriminalisation of polygamy might open the door for thousands of people to seek help and protection from domestic abusers and paedophiles, and might straighten up tax/benefit-related matters.

1

It seems these days that virtually anything goes and with a few exceptions eg paedophilia and bestiality, it is viewed as a crime not to approve of everything. I’m surprised therefore that there hasn’t already been a call for legal acceptance.
It’s just a case of adding a few more letters to the LGBTQ etc, having an emblem and a few parades and your nearly there.

Yes. We live in interesting times, if you call that. Lol

2

chuckle most men Let's get busy

4

It gets a little messy when children are involved. For the best outcome re the kids, the age old one wife per man is the better outcome. Unless as many marriages break down these days, it's still the kids who suffer the most.

angelo Level 8 May 24, 2020
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