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It is all in how you frame the question.

Most people will not put a price tag on a human life. You could make a philosophical argument for such a position. Perhaps arguing that devaluing human life will have a ripple effect that threatens our understanding of human rights or life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The problem with that position is we do it every day without realizing it.

Life has a clock and every life winds down. We all only have so much time. life is also about consumption. Unless you consume more energy than you expend you will die. Being social animals we cooperate in reproduction and energy acquisition. Since we live in a complex civilization we regulate energy distribution with money. We exchange the money for labor. What that labor is worth is at least in part tied to time. When you decide how much you will pay and to whom you are deciding how much their time is worth. By extension you are determining how much their life is worth. Those familiar with cost benefit analysis will already be familiar with this concept but to many people it will seem alien.

Age is always a factor when doing a cost benefit analysis involving the risk of serious injury or death. The assumption being that from a societal perspective a young person has more time and time is money. We do this cold calculation ourselves but refuse to acknowledge it. It is built into our evolved preferences. For example we save women and children first from a sinking ship.

If you are having a discussion with someone arguing that no economy is worth lives reframe the question. Ask them if they think a grandparent would take additional risk from Covid 19 if it meant that their grandchildren would have a brighter economic future.

wolfhnd 8 May 16
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0

We need to stop falsely framing this question as an “either/or”. It is not.

I keep referring to Taiwan, where there was no lockdown, and schools and businesses remained open. Yet, this tiny island of 26-million people has had just seven, yes, seven Covid deaths.

This isn’t a question of whether the economy should reopen. It’s about the willingness to do it safely.

GeeMac Level 8 May 17, 2020
0

When it comes right down to it, crisis like our very survival, we revert back to our instincts of survival of the fittest in many ways.

angelo Level 8 May 17, 2020
0

"Some tribes are somewhat Western in intent, others are built on chronic thievery and yet others have no respect for human life" paraphrased from the book "Out of Africa"

Very easy but unstable environment.

It would be a mistake to think easy means pleasant or idyllic. It only means that survival or fitness is not related to long term planning. An example of a harsh but stable environment would be that of Sumer. Total dependence on agriculture.

2

In New Zealand... taking into account that we are similar to Finland and Sweden, one would assume 2000 additional deaths if we did not destroy economy with this lockdown.. We are going to borrow $120b to stem only some of the economic depression coming... that is $60m for each live saved... we do not spend a tenth of that per life saved on transport safety or cancer treatment or anything else.
And yes, a life has a price tag. For us it is between $2-3m per young life... we were daft doing this.

Hanno Level 8 May 16, 2020
1

Ask PLANNED PARENTHOOD!!!!!! They seem to KNOW THE VALUE OF LIFE!!!
A big fat Zero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, why are the supporters of Planned Parenthood pushing LOCK DOWN????????????????????

Serg97 Level 8 May 16, 2020

I can't say, abortion isn't something I have an opinion on. It does seem like it could effect the way people respond subconsciously to children.

@wolfhnd My point is that the LIBS support Planned Parenthood with every fiber in their bodies, but claim there is no cost to high to pay to save lives from "KUNG-FLU", while they kill hundreds of babies a day!!!

@Serg97

Well you know me well enough to expect my response.

Most mammals "eat their young" if something is wrong in the environment. Often males will kill the offspring of others males it they take over a group and the females will come back into heat. It's less common for females to kill their own young but it happens. Occasionally we see women kill their children to pursue a romantic interest perhaps with a higher status male. There are many things that could influence instincts. As it relates to the topic at hand abortion is often about time and resources.

It is understandable that women who need support during pregnancy and nursing may not want to rely on a male. This must be especially true for women who cannot attract a high status male. The alternative of marrying the state may be equally unattractive for sexually reasons. Why females want to have independence may be as simple as both dependent children and males may limit survival potential under some circumstances. It's always better evolutionarily to wait and reproduce under favorable conditions.

The assumption that females have a strong instinct for nurturing and no other instincts is a cultural myth. For the most part out recently acquired instincts are over whelmed by "Chimpanzee" instincts. Instincts that make most humans inclined towards a fast lifestyle which are appropriate for easy unstable environments. Since we have only been civilized for a short time the instincts for a slow lifestyle are relatively sporadic in the population. I would say that for the most part the cultural values of the female left reflect the dominate instincts, of fairness, sexual promiscuity, independence from unreliable commitments, a preference for mating with strong leaders, hierarchies based on networking not competence and the outsourcing of violence.

@wolfhnd Humans have accomplished some of the best and worst things in human history, over the last few millenniums.
The best things came from moving past the hand to mouth existence, to a more stable community existence.
The worst things all come from seeking and or obtaining power through dominance, and that seldom turns out well for anyone!!!!!!!!

@Serg97

Dominance is a game.

If a game is properly constructed it will allow a competency hierarchy to exist based on unbiased competition. Those are not sufficient conditions however. A game must also, as Jordan Peterson points out, be seen in relationship to the set of games we call social interaction. He also points out that a proper game must be iterative. That means that people will want to keep playing. Within the set of games an individual will win some and lose others. Regardless to be successful you have to be invited to play. Dominance hierarchies that become tyrannical are those in which the competition is biased and some people will not be playing.

Take the social media game. Because free speech is being suppressed by the media and tech companies the competition is unavoidably biased towards opinions that those who control them hold. Many people have under these conditions either been forced or have chosen to stop playing. At the moment it is the left that has become tyrannical but it is easy to see how the other players could if they came to dominate be equally tyrannical.

Because our primary instincts are evolved for an easy but unstable environment they are a poor fit for a civilized environment. Our instincts are designed for fairness. Fairness however should not be confused with equality of opportunity. In a tribal environment fairness is about distribution not production. Production is left to nature. In a civilized society production is entirely "unnatural". Because civilization creates a harsh but stable environment hierarchies of competence are necessary. Small mistake in managing production come with disastrous consequences.

Since civilization is "unnatural" we have constructed games with rules to counter instincts. As we all know referees can only do so much and voluntary compliance is a necessary part of any game people will want to keep playing. Once people start cheating the civilization collapses.

What the rules should be is the game of politics.

@wolfhnd I, personally, am NOT impressed with Peterson!!!
IMHO, he speaks "educated gobbledgook", which is , again IMHO, a way to avoid PLAN TALK, that leaves NO question of what is being said!!!
Sort of like what you said above!!!!!
I believe in KISS!!!

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