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Australia is going to purchase nuclear powered subs from the USA. On the face of it a good move. The longer a sub stays underwater the more of a deterrent it is. Unfortunately the servicing and systems control have the US Navy doing that. So Australia pays for them and then have another country able to control their use. (F35's are in the same situation) Just goes to prove how brain dead Australian politicians are.

Arty 7 Jan 9
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Do we need to buy these to protect ourselves? No. The only country that poses much threat to us is China, and our government is selling everything they can to them.
So why are we buying these subs? If we go to war, it will only be at the behest of, and by the side of US forces. So it makes sense that we'll be using their equipment, as we'll be fighting on their fronts and no doubt paying for that 'privilege' of being part of the big club. We'll do some fighting, whilst paying for the equipment and it's maintenance, in the name of being part of the 'global community fighting for freedom and democracy'.

Tom81 Level 8 Jan 10, 2023

Australia's major military threat has always been Indonesia. The problem being that the USA has both been an adversary and Allie to Indonesia so its response to a military conflict between Australia and Indonesia would depend on the USA's position at the time. Not a good option for Australia when its self defense options are partially controlled by an interested third party.

@Arty Indonesia is too small and poor to invade Australia. We've trained their units, sold and even donated military equipment. And how much would their economy take a hit if Australians stopped going to Bali?😂. They may be our frenemies, but I don't see them as much of a threat to Australia. The smaller pacific nations on the other hand are a different story

@Tom81 Indonesia has over 270 million people. Australia has over 25 million. Indonesia has over 395.000 armed forces personal. Australia has 59000 armed forces personal.

@Arty that I did not know (but how does their air force and navy compare to ours, in quality not just quantity?), still - I think Australia would be too large to conquer militarily by Indo. Plus we could always count on NZ to help 🤣 ... We've sold so much to China, I wouldn't be surprised if they came in to help and protect their assets.
I think we should be more worried about our own government, and it's ties to the WEF, than an Indo invasion

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Oh goody, our massively powerful technology in the hands of Marxists. Can't wait for the day our country has to figure out how to defeat it. (Sarcasm)

1

ANSTO in collaboration with selected Australian University will not start a nuclear engineering program?

That is what is needed for any country to use nuclear power, albeit commercial power or military.

Hanno Level 8 Jan 9, 2023

Nuclear technology still has one critical flaw: Nuclear waste. Anyone with a fission reactor must be trusted for thousands of years to responsibly control and maintain extremely dangerous nuclear wastes.

There are no vessels which can contain it for even a hundred years. How do I know? I worked as a nuclear engineer for part of my career. Am I completely confident that we will responsibly handle it for the duration? Not really.

So how do we enforce some agency in some government to keep footing that bill to repackage that waste hundreds of times before it cools down enough to be safe? How many human error events will happen on that endless path? Many. And some will be deadly.

The Soviets just walked away from their nuclear mess at Chernobyl, and left it for Russia to allocate funds and manage cleanup and storage. Did they take care of all of it? Did they do it responsibly? No one is completely sure, and we need to be.

Does anyone know the true cost of nuclear power in Russia including the cleanup and management of current and future nuclear waste? That remains not completely certain.

How many countries now with fission reactors can be counted on to responsibly manage that??? I do not have a warm fuzzy feeling that they all will. Given the current government in the US, utterly blinded to the urgency of anything but power and control, will we?

@TimTuolomne

“There are no vessels that can contain it for even 100 years…”

Yes there is, silicon carbide. Look up HTR fuel. The latest US program is called X-Energy.
Successful reactors have been built in Germany and the U.S. and two are in operation on China.
Their fuel have been stored successfully for many decades and will remain safe for centuries.

Germany was about to start the large scale implementation of HTR power plants and then Chernobyl happened and Germans went stupid

Now of course you are correct inasmuch you cannot place an HTR reactor in a submarine… so your main concern about the long term safety of military and conventional (non-HTR) fuel stands.

@TimTuolomne Nope. Just do what the cowards don't want, recycle. That was the original design plan. EdF has been doing for years. Any country making nukes (bombs) with plutonium has the tech to recycle.
As to non-recycled, tell the treehuggers to piss off and bury the containers in mountains like near Carlsbad. That project was corrupted by the treehuggers when it was decided that the material had to be "stored" for >10,000 years -- even proof against following civilizations. BS! So long as you skip a volcano there are loads of mountains that can be used to stuff crappola into.
Such waste is a problem only because the processes were interfered with deliberately by the same boneheads that insist that CO2 is destroying the earth.
This is a "problem" only because it has been made to be one.

@Hanno I know about silicon carbide. Do you know about SiC containment vessels that were eroded by water in a few decades? No?

And HTR pellets are still hot for a long time. When they fall out of a containment vessel, they still pose a significant hazard, and containment vessels are the problem.

The issue is still confidence in the government, any government, to manage that safely over the long term. I don't have that confidence. Do you?

@Hanno, @bobbo666 You are an experienced nuclear waste engineer then. No? Then you may be out of your depth.

@TimTuolomne
I am experienced nuclear engineer with a masters degree in nuclear engineering and have published in a dozen journals and international conferences on HTR fuel.

I have calculated the long term storage of nuclear HTR fuel and published the results. I was part of the team that designed the cradle to grave life cycle of HTR fuel in South Africa and later ELB due in Belgium.

I developed the water effect model used by the Chinese reactor designers to licence the two Chinese HTR reactors they built recently and which are in operation.
It was for water ingress during operation and not storage, however conditions under operation is much more severe.
Under long term storage conditions, water ingress
Is not an issue as was proven by AVR reactor in Germany and Peach Bottom in the USA.

Why modern HTR’s are different to other reactors designs is the very low power density and hence low decay heat.

I am not the one out of my depth here.

@Hanno Acknowledged. My response was intended only for bobbo666. Not sure why you were addressed as well.

Thank you for your experienced perspective. I have seen accounts of failed containers due to water erosion. Perhaps you know of those accounts.

@TimTuolomne

All good. As I said your original concern about military fuel is correct and I share your concern.

I am aware of large containers stored in glass which failed. Glass and similar ceramics will fail if the structures are too large.
I need to confess I am only aware of failures and not knowledgeable about it as I was never involved in storing nuclear waste in secondary glass or ceramics. I just know it was done and some issues occurred.

In HTR fuel the SiC containers are only few millimeters in diameter inside a tennis ball sized graphite fuel element and failures are generally one failure per million over total life.. So if a SiC container fail, the release is tiny and manageable. The vast majority of releases is captured in the graphite fuel.

In spherical HTR fuel, the fuel is already the final disposal unit. At AVR in Germany the fuel was submerged in water during operation (a big NO for gas cooled reactors) and the fuel did not fail.

Of course you have billions of these SIC containers in a storage cell, and we calculated that release considering conservative failure rates.

So interesting work and definitely a solution to the nuclear waste problem in decades to come.

@Hanno I surely hope so, because nothing is going to stop politicians from building them.

@TimTuolomne Two degrees in NE. 25 + years in nuclear design, construction, and operation -- including storage tech and working for NSA on intl diversion issues.
So, are we thru pissing onna wall, yet?

Storage is an issue only to those who profit by making it one -- by either salary (make work) or ideology -- opposing any long term energy support for civilization. Quit talking about storing the really nasty stuff above ground after its volume has been reduced thousand fold by either recycling or just compression. Storing such above ground is just silly, like navel gazing. Just bury it and leave it be -- unless you can profit by making it into a big deal.

As to proliferation, so bloody what? Weapons can be tracked by source of fissile material. A nuke is nothing compared to a bioweapon, NOTHING.
E.g., if Ukraine had not stupidly trusted the assurance of the West and kept their nukes Russia would not have invaded. OTOHand, if the corrupt Ahole BeijingBiden installed as Pres had honored the Minsk agreement there would have been no invasion at all.

@bobbo666 Good to be made aware of your expertise and experience sir. It seems more than mine, and I defer to your point of view about nuclear waste. I remain uneasy about what happens to future generations with that stuff.

@TimTuolomne I am also concerned about the future, even tho I won't see much more of it (am ancient). But, some concerns seem to be driven only by ego. As to nuke waste, I worked just down the hall from the waste dudes (no dudettes at that time) at two different companies. And, their opinion of the anti-nuke crowd was unanimous: total nut-jobs. Sincere, yes. But, just the process of logic completely escaped them. Much less the scientific method.
E.g., ask a treehugger today. The big issue is CO2. Show them that nuke produces none -- "Nope, nuke is evil". Geesh.

@bobbo666 I'm a retired engineer who did some nuclear engineering work. I agree that too many who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about are making demands about government energy and environmental policy, and costing everyone ridiculous amounts of money for no effective results, and even more to fix the consequences of their stupidity. California is the poster child for that.

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The American empire grows a bit!

sqeptiq Level 10 Jan 9, 2023
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