idw.community
7 2

I always found American habit of calling everyone who wore military uniform as "veterans", both insulting and ridiculously redundant. If everyone is a veteran by default, than the word veteran, much like the word racist becomes worthless and meaningless do to inflation. The overuse invalidates the word veteran since there is no actual term to use for people who would in any other place be called veterans because of their long term experience. But if everyone is called veteran than words becomes worth less.... until its worthless because of hyperinflation. Kind of like US dollar.

Well, be that as it may, I may have found a clue to my frustration. Giving away medals like coupons. Pretty soon USA will rival North Korea. I mean is USA in medal warfare with North Korea or something?

Tulsi Gabbard is often promoted as veteran. Bhuahahaha! Logistics. Sitting in an office with a pen in uniform is not a veteran and soldier.

Reminds me of "Heartbreak Ridge"

Heartbreak Ridge - "Lifetakers and Heartbreakers" - Clint Eastwood x Everett McGill

P.S.

I see the same idiotic type of terminology used in corporate industry, especially entertainment industry.

They call everyone a "talent". "United Talent Agency ", "Talent Agencies in Huntsville, Alabama " calling a chair where people sit a placeholder for where "talent" will sit. lol WTF?

Krunoslav 9 Aug 10
Share
You must be a member of this group before commenting. Join Group

Be part of the movement!

Welcome to the community for those who value free speech, evidence and civil discourse.

Create your free account

7 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

Long reply addressing the question and some of the comments.
——
As a military veteran of almost 3 decades, I can tell you that beyond the fact that the various English dictionary definitions point to any military service as one of the definitions, the title of veteran is appropriate for all trained military personnel that have served for any time period. A Marine is a Marine for the rest of his life even though the average amount of time served by marines is one tour.
——
However, since the implications of your post and the replies WRT police service not receiving the same honor/recognition are more about the fact that the military seems to be in a position of excessive grace, I’ll try to address this part of the post.

The benefits we receive now are part of a ridiculous pendulum swing. The same can be said for law enforcement personnel. The only difference is that the military and law enforcement are in different positions of the pendulum swing.

When I was a young man (recently having received my first college degree) and seeking to enter military service, I was dating a young woman who was still in college. We had a nice date and she seemed very interested in a relationship with me, even inviting me to spend the night at her apartment instead of making the long trip back to my home. While we were discussing our life plans, I explained that I was scheduled to enter my military service soon. With a shocked look on her face, she said she could never have a relationship with a “baby-killer”. This was the prevailing attitude about the military that had been going on since Vietnam. Our young men that joined the military in order to fulfill their civic duty (being paid as little as double-digit monthly salaries) not only risked their lives (many dying or dismembered or wounded psychologically beyond recovery), they were spat upon and attacked mercilessly by the people they sought to protect. (Kind of like what is now happening to honorable people entering law enforcement now).

I knew this was the service I had chosen to undertake and it scared me more than the potential for losing my life or limbs, but I chose to serve none-the-less. Since I came in with a degree I started with a much higher salary. I earned $723 every month until I was promoted. We didn’t always get those nice cost of living raises each year, but they always paid us what our contract stipulated. Like most of the military, I chose to ignore the hatred cast our way, but to be aware of the dangers of my surroundings due to that hatred. We chose to be above reproach in our behavior (most of us) and to proactively treat others with respect. Eventually, after the “shock and awe” campaign the pendulum swung drastically in the opposite direction. We were no longer winning people over one person at a time; now the whole country and much of the world gave us extreme respect. It was a wonderful time. Our wages grew faster than ever before until we caught up with our civilian counterparts and in some cases surpassed them.

Knowing that a pendulum swings both ways and the extent and duration of one swing will often determine the return swing, many of us daughters to train young people entering the service on “deserving the respect and honor”. We remind them that military service earned respect of a great full nation during the first 2 world word and all the way through Korea. This period was followed by utter disdain and hatred for those who followed, which was followed by an overly abundant return swing of that pendulum.

Obviously, too much unearned respect and honor leads to bad behavior and we had to deal severely with those destroying the reputation so many had sacrificed so much for. I have been out for about a decade, but I’ve been saying to young people that the pendulum always swings back. We don’t “deserve” a veteran discount, it is a nice thing that many businesses offer the military, because it is in fashion now. We should never demand respect, we should earn it.

I have a son-in-law that I I had the honor of commissioning before leaving the service (and before he married my daughter) and I continue to advise him on remembering the pendulum swing and being prepared for it. He is already feeling the pain of how it is beginning to swing as he was forced to take an experimental injection in order to remain in the military. He did suffer chest pains for a few weeks and there’s no telling how severe the damage will be, yet he continues to serve honorably. He is a true VETERAN with about a decade of service. He has risked his life for this country in his service and continues to do so. He sacrificed time away from his beautiful, loving wife and the children she was left to raise alone while he was deployed. He doesn’t pack a weapon and a badge for his job every day, but he is worthy of the title of veteran.

At the same time the military were hated, law enforcement was honored and given “free” stuff. I remember managing a restaurant and the cops were always told their coffee or meals or whatever were on the house. We appreciated them eating in our establishment, because crime was less when they were in the area. Some accepted the freebies, others declined, but they all knew they were honored guests, respected and appreciated. The pendulum has swung for them as well. I have a strong hunch that the pendulum will swing again for both the military and law enforcement very soon. So hang in there all you honorable veteran law enforcement officers.

"As a military veteran of almost 3 decades, I can tell you that beyond the fact that the various English dictionary definitions point to any military service as one of the definitions, the title of veteran is appropriate for all trained military personnel that have served for any time period. A Marine is a Marine for the rest of his life even though the average amount of time served by marines is one tour.""

I don't see how the term veteran can be justified without qualifiers of timed served and appropriate experience and skill gained. So I don't see how term military veteran applied to everyone, from cosplayer in uniform to actual skilled battle harden soldier. It makes no sense at all.

In fact it invalidates the meaning of the term itself, because it changes the meaning of the word and it forces the term in usage, even when there are far more suitable terms.

For example. Ex military servicemen, can accurately describe anyone who has wore a uniformed , served in military and has been honorably discharged.

On a more granular level, one can say that if one was in Marines as a serviceman, he is after retirement, an ex-marine. The attitude of a marine can remain and one can keep the attitude of "once a marine, always a marine", but once out of the service a person is not an actual serviceman in Marine Core.

Same as if someone has been serving in police department, once in retirement he is no longer licensed police officer, even if he may think of himself as a cop. There is a difference. Words matter.

Concept of a veteran expands beyond military, and certainly predates the usage of it as we see in America today. It has a particular meaning and significance. Using the term veteran in military context makes only sense if it retains original meaning, and not be used as some kind of badge for belonging to a club.

A guy serving four years in military cosplaying his way in the nice safe air conditioned supply warehouse back in states doing desk job and playing Donkey Kong on his phone, is simply not the same as some guy doing three tours in Vietnam , doing black ops and tunnel rat operations and climbing the ranks as he sees his buddies being killed around him and maybe losing a limb himself.

That is simply not the same experience level, time in service, skill level, merit, or attitude. And to call both veterans, is absolutely ludicrous. I don't know what yahoo came up with that idea in the first place but its insulting to ones intelligence, not to mention sense of fairness.

I find it anything but appropriate term to describe ex-service members with no qualifiers.

Veteran means essentially old, implying length of time, not merely being idle, but also working and gaining experience, improving skill etc. That is how I see it today. I don't recognize the term veteran for cosplaying. That is ludicrous to me.

...........................................

"Obviously, too much unearned respect and honor leads to bad behavior and we had to deal severely with those destroying the reputation so many had sacrificed so much for. I have been out for about a decade, but I’ve been saying to young people that the pendulum always swings back. We don’t “deserve” a veteran discount, it is a nice thing that many businesses offer the military, because it is in fashion now. We should never demand respect, we should earn it. "

I agree.

Same is true for the service. Anyone serving after Vietnam War has been essentially fighting wars for the banking cartel and not for any kind of national interests or for the people in United States. Because it is voluntary service, anyone who volunteers assumes responsibility for their actions. Including educating one self about who is one serving and why.

To go in as a volunteer in service, especially in recent decades was to be a mercenary and do it for profit as main motivation or people who were simply naive to think they are fighting a just cause.

You mentioned police officers. I think that is very different than military in the sense that police was to my knowlage never mandatory and military was until the end of Vietnam war. A police officer is supposed to uphold the law and a soldier is supposed to act in the service of protecting the homeland.

But as they say. Its not the titles that honor men , its the men that honor titles. And that is the bottom line for me. Being idealistic and honorable individual may still be true if today you serve in police department or military. But soon as one finds out what kind of people he serves, it becomes a moral question. I was just doing my job is not good enough. That is what Nazis said. It has to come down to personal decisions and some are able to do that and some are not. One can quite police department and find other work and one can after certain period quite military service and find another job. It is not mandatory past a certain point. That is the true test of ones character.

During the mandates jabs in the past two years we have seen a lot of people with character and many more without. Veterans or not. Even if one uses term incorrectly. Honor goes beyond mere length of service. Taking a jab as a soldier might be something that on a broader level is part of job of being a soldier, which is taking orders from your superiors. But even that must have its limits. Otherwise people are no longer soldiers. There is no honor. its just enforcement arm of some tyrannical regime. Like infamously SS was for example. Where being ruthless, showing no compassion or pity and being sadistic was seen as qualities. That was trained into them. But I would not call them soldiers, because they had no honor. In fact German regularly military personal hated SS because they though of SS having no honor.

This changed as the war progressed and eventually war crimes or what we consider war crimes were common, Closely cooperating with the SS and the Einsatzgruppen, the German armed forces committed numerous war crimes (despite later denials and promotion of the myth of the clean Wehrmacht). The majority of the war crimes took place in the Soviet Union, Poland, Yugoslavia, Greece and Italy, as part of the war of annihilation against the Soviet Union, the Holocaust and Nazi security warfare.

However despite all this. Among them you can find examples of individuals resisting even working against the regime and its operations. That is character. That is honorable. There were many non veterans, there were many veterans, but not all veterans were honorable. My point is that these terms have meaning and weight behind them when properly used.

This "everyone is a veteran" trend makes a mockery of true veterans and even more so of the honorable ones. And for what? Social benefits? Whatever the reasons, words matter if they have meaning otherwise we live in a postmodernist insane world of absurdity.

I guess in a country where I identify as ..... fill in the blank, calling everyone a veteran is not strange. To an outsider, it is. And for a good reason.

0

It's because no longer declare war, and provide post service benefits in exchange for lower pay. Sort of.

govols Level 8 Aug 10, 2022

Can you expand on that notion?

0

Those NK medals may be for clandestine raids into Japan, kidnapping and more.

Probably they are rewards for "Yes, Kim our lord and savior" answers to whatever he asked them.

@Krunoslav THAT is probably quite true.

Might explain the missing wagyu Kobe beef a time or two, that the Yakuza got stiffed & blamed for. 😉

@Weltansicht I'm not familiar with it. All I could find was this:

@Krunoslav I was just being facetious and trying to spin a joke that anywhere else a fact-checker would have puked on it. lol

@Weltansicht Ah, I see. It must have been an insider joke, that one. It flew right by me. hehe

2

Here is a question nobody seems to be able to answer!!!! Why is it, when I go into a restaurant, or other establishment, the give "Veteran Discounts" and am not allow the discount??????
How many Veterans do you know that put in OVER 25 YEARS service????????
How many Veterans do you know that were REQUIRE to be armed and ready both on and off duty for their entire career????
I wore a BADGE and a gun daily for over 25 years, I was required to be armed 24/7 and NO DISCOUNTS?????????????????
And you wonder why we can no longer find QUALIFIED people to wear a badge and a gun????
And by the way, have you ever heard of a Government funded college education for COPS?????
Just Saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Serg97 Level 8 Aug 10, 2022

@NewbieMAGA I am talking about when I am ask if I get a Vet. discount, and I ask if 25 years service as a police officer counts!!!!!!! I am ALWAYS told NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY don't even ask for proof, which I do have!!!!!! Just saying!!!!!!

Thank you for your service and unrequited love of duty.

It must be very difficult when incidents of corruption come about, or excessive force incidents get exploited. One bad apple and it tarnishes everyone's image & everybody else's perceptions.

My father was a 'lifer' in the military, so I am not a good one to answer that question on how many veterans & years of service.

There are plenty of recipients & beneficiaries of the G.I. Bill, after 2 years of duty. And plenty of people that did 6 years of service to get specialized training to promote themselves in civilian careers, such as pilots.

On the flip side though, they were/are plenty of people 'conscripted' from National Guard duty and tossed into the foray without proper training into Afghanistan & other places. Also, when their time & tour of duty was up, they were still kept in active duty positions, basically Shanghai-ed into forced military conscription.

The Stop-Loss Policy.
[en.wikipedia.org]

3

Since conscription disappeared and the armed forces are voluntary, the term veteran became more widely applied. It is seen more as a personal sacrifice for the country. The definition broadened mostly as a cultural evolution but I can't say there wasn't some political influence as well.

As to the "talent" I think it is used in that sense within the industry not so much culturally.

Just my opinion.

I think there is truth in that, on both accounts. I think I read somewhere that "veteran" was promoted culturally after Vietnam war as a recruitment tool.

Off course they needed to attract people and try to get culturally backing for the recruitment.

"If you go back to Vietnam, basically, the inequity of the draft helped prolong the war. As long as the poor and unrepresented were dying, people went along with it. You know, we got out of Vietnam effectively when the lottery started and middle class kids were getting killed. First thing that happened was they went to this all-volunteer army, and that solved the draft inequity problem because everybody is a volunteer." - Why we Fight (2005)

3

Wonder what Gen. MacArthur would say if he met Rachel Levine.

sqeptiq Level 9 Aug 10, 2022

I wonder what he'd say if he met Cadet Bone Spurs. Or Ted "I Shit My Pants" Nugent?

Knowing Doug, at this stage, he would probably Nuke the USA from orbit. I mean didn't he wanted to use Nuclear weapons against China.

2

You heard it here first, folks. Krunoslav hates the troops!

...I "hate" your mama, genius.

@Krunoslav why is hate in quotes? Do you know whether my mother was in the military or not? Does your post not show disdain for the troops in a way similar to how people criticized Colin Kaepernick for kneeling during the anthem? Does your sugar daddy Putin not exhibit the very things you criticize here?

@JacksonNought Man, you are so far behind that even insulting you is hard work. You just don't get it.

@Krunoslav hard work?

"I 'hate' your mama, genius" was hard work? It took you to the limits of your mental capacity to think that one up? Wow, I feel sorry for you.

@Krunoslav

He is talking about semantics, word usage, not the "troops". I couldn't ascertain from the post whether he hates the troops or not.

I don't think he is being vague here or duplicitous. When terms are vague and you have to read something into them, as to intent, then you have to clarify the intent. Politicians are often vague as to intent. An example of that would be, "We are going to fundamentally transform America."
What does that mean? Read into it what you want but if you really want to know you'll have to ask.

@FrankZeleniuk Off course I don't hate the concept of troops, but its a descriptive term, that does not not say anything about character, achievements or intentions of individual troops. Which is my point. The term veteran is used as cheap blanket statement to describe anyone wearing US military uniform, regardless of their experience or skill or achievements, making the usage of the term insulting and redundant, while managing to kill the usefulness of the term by over usage..

As for Dumbass comment by Jackson, he is trying to play a game..... namely this game. I simply refuse to play by his rules.

So you're saying compilation - Dr. Jordan Peterson & Cathy Newman

@NewbieMAGA "You told me once you don't hate anyone. Went on and on and on about how despite all your post against gays, transgenders, blacks etc you don't hate them because you don't hate anyone.

This is why I pity you: your inconsistency betrays deep sadness."

Look, I know you have an IQ lower than your shoe size, so you don't understand the difference between words like hate and moral convictions or common sense, but maybe once in a while you can put on your thinking hat and try to use whatever brain cells you have left, to understand the difference between warning and arguing against as well as pointing out the dangers of particular ideology/religion and its consequences and hatred as emotional response. OK, Einstein?

@NewbieMAGA

He's just trying to muddle up what veteran means....

I think he is pointing out that the word has already been muddled up.

I believe he is correct. The meaning has been broadened to be more inclusive than it historically has been.

If you were in Vietnam you were in the middle of a war zone and were a veteran of war. If you were pushing papers in Europe during the Vietnam war you were not considered a veteran of the Vietnam war.

As a you say, though, everyone that has ever been in the military, for an hour or twenty years, is called a vet.

@FrankZeleniuk perhaps he is trying to use the Trump playbook to pick and choose which military members / veterans are deserving of valor, based on his own political ideologies?

Vets who go rally for Trump? Worthy.

Vets who are critics of Trump, like McCain? "He's not a war hero...I like people who weren't captured.”

Vets who impose their Christianity on service members? Worthy.

Those Navy cadets who were Satanists and wanted equal religious accommodations? Not worthy.

Vets who complain that kneeling during the anthem spits in their face, or that allowing gay people to get married isn't why they fought for the country? Worthy.

A an openly gay vet? Booed at a GOP debate.

@JacksonNought

Still got that Trump derangement I see.

@wolfhnd yeah let's just move on and ignore the autocrat who is trying to steal elections and install loyalists who will hand him the election in 2024. Maybe he should just go away, then people will stop caring about him?

Have you stopped complaining about Hillary?

@JacksonNought

If you don't think she should be in prison you are deluded. She is a neo con in disguise. She shares none of your beliefs and you have been fooled by the corpocracy.

@wolfhnd so you have Hillary derangement I see?

Write Comment

Recent Visitors 22

Photos 8,371 More

Posted by Krunoslav🇺🇸 Multiple charities in New York are now only giving clothes to illegal invaders and are refusing to help homeless New Yorkers.

Posted by JeffHoneyagerShould citizens with an I.Q. below 70 be allowed to vote?

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press, part II.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press.

Posted by KrunoslavFresh off the press.

  • Top tags#video #youtube #world #government #media #biden #democrats #Police #truth #USA #children #reason #Canada #society #money #god #freedom #rights #culture #China #hope #racist #vote #death #politics #evil #TheTruth #justice #kids #conservative #socialist #communist #evidence #hell #democrat #Socialism #nation #liberal #laws #racism #crime #federal #fear #politicians #community #military #climate #book #violence #joebiden ...

    Members 9,299Top

    Moderators