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Noosa temple of Satan
Wants to teach in school.
Wants a prayer in parliament
Wants a stamp made by Australia Post.
Says it's going to get all of these using freedom of religion laws.

Poncho69 8 May 1
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And they should, if Christians are given those rights and privileges.

What's a "religion"?

@FrankZeleniuk a organisation run by Babylon the great

@FrankZeleniuk Obviously, Jackson has his own idea of a religion!!!

@Serg97 Satanism is a religion.

@JacksonNought Yes it is, does that apply to you????

@Serg97 it does, I am a Satanist.

@JacksonNought Figures!!!!!!

@Serg97 figures that I subscribe to a religion based upon individual freedoms, altruism, and rebellion against arbitrary authority? Glad that comes across!

@JacksonNought I note that the IRS has recognized The Satanic Temple as a tax exempt charitable organization in May of 2019. Is that your organization? Do you attend services there?
What is the purpose of that organization?
Satanic is generally understood to mean "of or having to do with Satan". And Satan is considered the purveyor of evil.
I think in the old days there was a belief that Satan existed as an entity like God and the spirit or soul but I think that concept has been abandoned today and it just exists to altruistically antagonize Christianity, and other religions which it considers a rebellion against arbitrary authority. Usually they donate a plaque or something to city hall and demand it be displayed next to the ten commandments to achieve "equality"? It's just another one of those Marxist equality things.

Really, Satanism is a sham that believes all religions are a sham and attempts to prove them as such. Now it is a recognized religion by the IRS and can rebel against itself as an arbitrary authority.

@FrankZeleniuk yes, I am a member / follower of The Satanic Temple, but not in any official capacity. It is a global organization with chapters all over the world and in the US, with the headquarters located in Salem, Massachusetts. And yes, it is officially recognized in the US as a tax-exempt religion, meaning it is granted all of the official federal rights and protections of other mainstream religions.

It is not just an "organization" - it is a religion. And the purpose of the religion is no different than any other religion - a sense of community, an ethos to live by, an understanding of the world, etc. To be clear, though, it is a non-theistic religion. TST has no belief in an actual Satan, no belief in any gods, and no belief in supernaturalism. It is not much different than Secular Humanism.

Does it really matter how other people perceive "Satan" or "Satanic"? Our values and beliefs are out there for anyone to see - anything else you use to define us is merely a strawman and fear mongering.

To Jews, Jesus was one of the worst heretics to ever live. He broke the main Commandments and put himself equal to God, and blasphemed in claiming he was the Messiah. He specifically tried to change the rules, claiming Old Testament restrictions no longer applied. He was nothing more than a false prophet leading people away from true salvation - that is how Jews see him. In the old days, as far as Jews were concerned, Jesus was no different than someone like Sun Myung Moon. So, should we attack Christians for using the name Christ? Should we attack Christians for deliberately using a controversial figure, seemingly to offend Jewish people? Should we claim Christians are evil for idolizing a figure which Jews consider sinful?

Well, that is no different than Satanists, and the claims Christians (and others, but mostly Christians) levy against Satanists. It doesn't matter how others define Satan, or what they think or claim. All that matters is how Satanists define Satan, and what they believe. It has nothing to do with antagonizing Christians, any more than Christians exist to antagonize Jews. To us, it couldn't be anything other than Satan, so to tell us we should pick a different name or a different definition is nothing more than religious bigotry.

Here we go again with the "Marxist" bogyeman, without actually knowing the real definition. It seems you don't actually understand some of the works of The Satanic Temple, you just let others spoon-feed you a narrative.

@JacksonNought Does it really matter how other people perceive "Satan" or "Satanic"?

Yes it does matter. The concept has existed for thousands of years and now, as is usual with, those that wish to decieve, you have usurped the word and redefined it in your own terms.
You could have stayed with "secular humanism" but it was thought better to call it someothng that would infringe more on the concept of religion which derives its meaning from the latin "to bind back". An organization that does not bind a person to a higher authority and restrain him from human frailties and immorality does not really fit the definition and it would have been better to devise its own new terms. You know, stayed with secular humanism.
But Satanism really has the intent of infringing upon the field of religion by claiming equality with religion which secular humanism does not do.

@FrankZeleniuk so then what Jesus means to Jews matters too, isn't that the same logic? Judaism existed for thousands of years, and Christians stole the idea of the Messiah and corrupted it for their purposes. They could have stayed with Judaism but it was thought better to call it something that would spit in the face of the Jews. Why don't we criticize Christians for this offense with the same frequency as we do Satanists?

Satanism is a religion, not an anti-religion. Religion doesn't have to be theistic or bound to a higher authority - there are plenty of non-theistic religions. One important aspect, especially in the US, is for pluralism and equality. Satanists aren't trying to remove all religion from the country or even the public square, but they are trying to prevent favoritism (which always ends up being for Christianity) and allowing true pluralism to be practiced in a country in which the very first of our rights is pluralism. The US isn't allowed to pick and choose which religions are valid or deserving of equal rights, yet that often happens in practice anyway. Satanism is actually more American than Christianity if Christianity doesn't follow our Constitution. It is a religion, so why shouldn't it have the same equality?

Again, Satanists are Satanists because they are Satanists. It isn't the same as Secular Humanism. That's like saying why is there Christianity and not just Judaism, or why are there three big Abrahamic religions and not just one all-encompassing religion to worship the Abrahamic god? Why are there Protestants and LDS and Catholics and Baptists, why couldn't they all pick the same one?

@JacksonNought That's a lot to respond to. Your first paragraph is your usual whataboutism argument though. All I have to say about that is a certain hierarchy existed when Christ came along. I sort of think the same thing would happen to Christ and Christianity today as occurred with Christ and the Jews back then. Some accepted him as the Messiah at the time but I doubt the Jewish religious hierarchy would relinquish their privileged positions of power so easily. I admit it to be a problem of religious organization that those in charge would attempt to conserve the established structure and be resistant to change. Christ presented a big change.

Well, in your second paragraph, you argue that Satanism is a religion. I don't expect Christianity to be happy that Satanists usurped their word for an entity that, to them, epitomizes evil. If there were absolutely no intent among Satanists to be "anti-religious" - or at least "anti-Christian", they would not have picked that word to describe it. It is meant to be oppositional since the words' origin is from Christianity. Other religions may have their evil entities as well. The Norse had Loki, for instance, but for Christians it was Satan. The Satanic Temple cuold just as easily called itself The Lokian Temple and not be offensively oppositional to Christianity. But the intent is toward equality, as you say. Equality is an impossibility, of course. Equality under the law is achievable but it really gets confused with being associated with Christianity when it should have nothing to do with it.
As to a higher authority, that would obviously apply only to the designers of the organization since it is not, as you say, theistic. The origin of the term "religion" though does imply the concept of being bound. So perhaps a better word could be found or invented if your claim is there is nothing that binds in the Satanic Temple.

The Catholics were the original European Christian church and there are sects that splintered off and are grouped under the term Protestant. They have a difference of opinion on some aspects of Christianity. They do worship the same God and accept Christ as the Messiah and that is their commonality. Satanists and the Satanic Temple may not be the same thing either. there are Satanists that do honor a metaphysical entity with rituals and sacrifices but you would align more with Human Secularism although you seem to want to be divorced from it entirely. Secular Humanism could be a religion but they are more honest about their distaste for theistic religions or binding themselves to anything - physical or metaphysical. You have a "church".

@FrankZeleniuk my first paragraph is not whataboutism. It is picking apart your logic. If you are completely dismissing a religion based on what a different religion thinks about it, then you must dismiss a whole host of religions. If you attack a religion because its figurehead is a controversial figure despised by a different religion, then you must attack a whole host of religions. If your logic says that Satanism is bad or a sham because it uses Satan, then you must call Christianity bad or a sham because it uses Christ. I am sure you are right, some Jews didn't accept Christ because they wanted to remain in power - just as many Christians today act in very anti-Christ-like manners to remain in power. But that doesn't change the fact that Christ claimed to be the Jewish messiah, and many Jews did not believe it, so Christ was controversial and the epitome of blasphemous to many.

You say Satanists usurped a word from Christians. This is false. Satan comes from the Hebrew "adversary". The figurehead of Satanism is based more on Romantic literary depictions, such as in Milton's Paradise Lost. But even using Biblical interpretation, Satan can quite easily be interpreted as the hero. He is the first to fight for equal rights; the original rebel against arbitrary authority; the first to encourage critical thinking and the pursuit of knowledge over what is being spoon-fed by oppressive figures. It doesn't matter if Christians think he was evil, we do not define ourselves based on their religion. I think the god of the Bible is evil, as do many, yet that doesn't stop Jews and Christians and Muslims from basing their worldviews on serving him.

No, we cannot use Loki as a figurehead - Loki is quite different in lore. So is Hades, so is Anubis, so is Ereshkigal, so is Ankou, so is Aita, so is Kalma... you get the idea. Only Satan works for our philosophy. That is like telling Christians that they are being deliberately anti-Jewish and offensively oppositional because they picked Christ as their namesake, and they should find a different name. Hey, why not just refer to them all as Catholics or Baptists or Protestants? Why do you need to invoke Christ? If you have a problem with Satanists for this reason, you must have a problem with Christians for the same.

Religion doesn't need to worship a higher power. Religion can be non-theistic. The best definitions are:

  1. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects

  2. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

Secular Humanism is a non-theistic religion. Unitarian Universalism is non-theistic. Quakers are non-theistic. Scientology is non-theistic. Confucianism is non-theistic. Buddhism is mostly non-theistic. Pandeism is essentially non-theistic. And Satanism is non-theistic. If you dismiss Satanism as a religion due to its lack of belief in supernaturalism, then you must dismiss many other religions for the same.

But really it doesn't matter, as Satanism is recognized as a religion in the US, and therefore granted all the same liberties. One of the most fundamental rights in the US is freedom of religion, which also includes non-theistic religions, or having no religion at all. When a public courthouse puts a statue of the Ten Commandments outside, it gives the impression that it endorses that particular religion, and non-practitioners can be intimidated into thinking they cannot get equal justice because of their beliefs. Our country has mandated that government cannot endorse or favor any one religion, and so either the monument must be moved, or other religions can be allowed representation in this public space. That is all The Satanic Temple does - ask for equal representation. It isn't our fault that Christians then cry that they don't get special treatment and then shut down the space entirely - much like racists in the 1960s who decided to completely shut down swimming pools rather than let Black people attend. Or when Christian business owners get to use their religion to get special exemption from laws, like birth control mandates in insurance, TST says they should be given special exemption from arbitrary abortion restrictions, like waiting periods or forced ultrasounds. That is what equality under the law looks like.

At the end of the day, we don't care what you think of us, or if our name offends you. Christians try to strip away the civil rights of LGBTQ people, or women, or Atheists or Muslims. Some Christians suggest that people be jailed or executed for their different beliefs. Satanists just have a name some people don't like. I'd say one is a lot less offensive than the other.

@JacksonNought > my first paragraph is not whataboutism. <

Sorry, but it is.

Have you ever seen a Democrat triggered by a MAGA hat? It is associated with Trump. They will yell and scream and some will rip them off the heads of those who wear them. It matters little the origins of "MAGA". Like MAGA, Satan is a concept, an idea. Satan existed before Christ so they didn't originate the concept but they use the word. I think I get your logic. You think the word is the thing. Just like some Democrats will be triggered by a MAGA hat, MAGA is Trump is evil. So a Christian can be triggered by the word Satan. Those Christians too, think the word is the thing. It's called "symbology". The Satanic Temple is really just another splinter denomination off Christianity dissatisfied with the direction of the organization.

A person on the Jeopardy show signals he has won three times and he has to apologize for doing so because he did it in a manner that triggered some progressive liberals. Many people would have got offended if he had stuck his middle finger up when he won the first time. It has a different significance and intent. It is meant to offend and many people know that. Do you think he intended to signal "white supremacy" on his third win?

So the Ten Commandments offend you? Or is it that they are symbolic of Christianity that is offensive? Having the Ten Commandments would indicate to some that they were guaranteed a fair trial. In your case, I would request the Judge who put them up recuse himself from your trial if he knew you were a Satanist Christian. Could a person just say I like those rules and display them at a public courthouse? If some Satanist Christian decided to put up some Satanist Christian symbology at a courthouse I guess that would be his prerogative. He isn't "making a law regarding the establishment of a religion" after all. He is only practicing his religion which he has a right to do. Of course, you shouldn't be able to use public funds to erect any religious symbology.

Well, the Satanic Temple has been a recognized religion now for almost two years. It has successfully splintered from the Christian domain. Now it can really inflict some damage to those other Christian denominations as it intends. Bwahahahaha(evil Satanic laugh).

@FrankZeleniuk we can keep going back and forth on this, but we'll never get anywhere. You have your narrative, I have mine, and I doubt either of us will falter.

No, The Satanic Temple is not an "offshoot" of Christianity - it has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. You can claim it does, but you are wrong. Simple as that. You can use your terms like "Satanist Christian" all you want, but you are still wrong. You clearly only have the intent to mock and lie and distort, and no actual intention to listen and learn and understand.

If you think some Democrats are offended or triggered by MAGA hats... hoo boy, you should see Christians and their apoplexy when it comes to Satanists being given freedoms.

The Ten Commandments do not offend me, but they are illegal if placed on government property without any secular purpose or without granting other religions equal voice. You think the Ten Commandments guarantee a fair trial?

"You shall have no other gods before me".
"You shall not make idols".
"You shall not take the name of the lord in vain".
"Keep the Sabbath day holy".

So if someone isn't a Christian or of an Abrahamic faith or a theist, what do these "rules" say to them?

"Honor your father and mother".

So if a father is on trial for raping his daughter, the daughter should honor the father and not testify? What a load of BS. Is that a fair trial?

There aren't judges who put up Ten Commandment monuments - it is local governments, senators, mayors, governors, etc. Look into Jason Rapert, best bud of pedophile Josh Duggar, and his campaign for installing Christian Theocracy in Arkansas. So whole governments should recuse themselves? Sure, why not.

The Christians have about 380 thousand Churches in the US, all tax-exempt land, some gigantic mega churches with private jets. And yet they need to put their religious iconography in court houses and in government and in public school - their own land isn't good enough. But as soon as another religion wants to do the same, talk about a tantrum!

You don't live in the US, I guess you'll never understand. What is the point in trying to teach you when you are set in your alternative facts.

@JacksonNought I don't have alternative facts. The facts are the facts. You are not wrong in your facts on Christianity. I just choose to blame men and not Christianity or Islam or Sufism for all the travesties that he brings upon himself or others. Some use Christianity to justify their actions. Men are men whether they are in the US, China or Afghanistan or their religion is Christianity or Satanism. Religion is too often an excuse to do harm to others. Now you too have a legal right to wield a religion in the name of good. We know what you are trying to accomplish though beyond your stated objectives.

@FrankZeleniuk I agree with you on most of your statement. But at the end you take a nosedive. I don't know what wild fantasies you have about ulterior motives, but let's just you'd probably fit right in with the typical American Christian "moral majority".

@JacksonNought Don't think that it is not now a tool. You are also not the only member. Do you think Christianity is the only religion men have used to do harm? You may have the purest of intentions we are talking of man here.
Some religions are control mechanisms for human behavior. I don't mean they are descriptions of how men should behave, I mean their power of choice is overwhelmed. I suppose you can guess I am not a fan of organized religion but they do have to be looked at to what good they offer not that the hierarchy of the religion must keep its sheep in line to do their bidding. There is some good advice in Christianity and other religions.
As a Satanist you will face some criticisms and I doubt the religion will meet with much popularity so you will have many challenges.

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