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"Allegations of racism against the Capitol Police are nothing new: Over 250 Black cops have sued the department since 2001. Some of those former officers now say it’s no surprise white nationalists were able to storm the building." [propublica.org]

WilyRickWiles 8 Jan 14
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0

I thought Obama was gonna fix all that?

Hanno Level 8 Jan 14, 2021

You did?

@WilyRickWiles
I mean after 8 years of Noble prize winning leadership against racism and amazing reform putting all them white supremacist in their place. Putting legislation and laws in place making sure it does not happen.

Maybe not then... or maybe he did and these claims are bogus... who knows?

@Hanno Only, he didn't. But you sure resent him for it!

@WilyRickWiles This word salad was created by, drum roll, #WilyRickWiles

@Rick-A What exactly are you saying is a word salad?

@WilyRickWiles You profess to have all the answers but all you do is blather and claim to be an Obama disciple.
Have you ever solved a simple sudoku puzzle?

@Rick-A I never claimed to be an "Obama disciple."

@Rick-A Not a sudoku player but I do have a STEM degree.

@WilyRickWiles Dare I say it, it does not show.

@Rick-A You have a lot of room to talk.

@WilyRickWiles
I don’t resent Obama at all.
You completely missed my point.

You had a black president and black chief of police, yet the complaints does not stop. Either it is not real, or the very people complaining are continuing it.

@Hanno It's almost like representation alone (and token representation at that) doesn't solve systemic problems despite neoliberals' fixation on it.

@WilyRickWiles
Was Obama a token president?
Are all the black Chiefs or Police all token? Ditto US Congressmen and senators.They are demographically significant over presented.
Are they token because they have no powers? Or because they are unwilling to change? Surely not.
They have all the powers and the will.

Why then does your “systemic issues” persist? Because of a small minority which are at lower rank and less power, but somehow thwart the power and will of their superiors. Of course not. Not even in your communist utopia does that happen.

I suggest you look for other reasons why you systemic issues.

@Hanno They are token in number and ideology.

@Hanno You just have to look to history and who has power to know why systemic issues persist. Materialism trumps idealism.

@WilyRickWiles
OK, let’s have a look at history.
Care to share an example where idealism without materialism ever succeeded?

@Hanno Why? My point was the opposite. Moral arguments have moral value, and a system can be immoral, but if you want to change a system you need to wield power against the system's power.

@Hanno The history part just matters for demonstrating the facts of how the system works and who has power.

@Hanno But of course, the capitalist is blind to history because their reductive use of the ideology leads them to believe the status quo is always inherently natural and therefore morally self-justifying. Which of course leads to myths about the powerful and their shared characteristics representing moral uprightness and supremacy.

@WilyRickWiles
Morality is subjective.
Who are you to decide that your morals are better than mine.

@WilyRickWiles
To the contrary.
History is full of examples. It is the socialist who is blind to history and ignore the numerous examples of failed ideology vs systems that actually work and better people’s lives.

@Hanno I'm not, though as you implied I'm free too. But it's pretty fundamental to value human life and survival, and ordinary people organizing in solidarity with each other regardless of race to improve their condition furthers that and can challenge systems.

@Hanno None of that requires your agreement.

@Hanno Like capitalism? How does it better the life of the death squad victim, the slave, or the country that wants economic independence?

@WilyRickWiles
None of those are specific to capitalism.
Death squads whatever you mean by that, are totalitarian governments or group related. Nothing to do with capitalism. Most famous modern death squads existed in fascist and socialist countries.
Slavery, again does not exist in capitalism. We do however find that in socialist systems people are eventually treated like slaves.
Economic independence is the first thing socialist groups loose as free market systems outperform them.
Again, you brought up history and yet appear never to have study it.
These examples are numerous.

@Hanno What about the death squads in Afghanistan right now and in Indonesia and Latin America in the recent past? Those were all extensions of the American-dominated global capitalist system. Their form of government was coerced, which makes it not very useful to consider in isolation, but rather as part of a system.

@Hanno Right now the Supreme Court in the US is deciding whether US corporations should be liable for using slave and child labor, which they have been doing overseas.

@Hanno Regarding outperformance, that is not the case in Bolivia (we must distinguish between local performance and performance for global elites), but I will concede that it is difficult to compete with established global power as an upstart especially if you cannot impose capital controls, avoid economic, political, and military warfare from established powers, compete with bribery to extract local resources, etc.

@WilyRickWiles
Those are symptoms of failed states. Not capitalism.
They may or may not have been brought on by an external capitalist system, however we have many more examples of the same where this has been brought on by external socialist and communist systems.
Look at the interference of the USSR and China worldwide since 1910. The examples are far more numerous and more extreme.
So this are not caused by capitalism, but by failed states which are easily influenced by external forces.
Both capitalist and socialist countries took advantage of this as did countries and people through history even before we came up with capitalism and socialism.

@Hanno Just because you delegate something in capitalism, does not mean that thing is not part of the capitalist system. Obviously, it's the opposite. Capitalism is a shell game.

@WilyRickWiles
Slave and child labour.... which are occurring in communist and socialist countries.
In capitalist countries they are making laws against it and deciding how to prosecute:
In socialist countries it is the status quo.

@Hanno So you want to use the most prominent real world examples for socialism but not capitalism? Please.

@WilyRickWiles
It is also delegated in the socialist system. It is delegated on ALL systems invented up to today.
It is very much part of the socialist system. History teaches us that.

So you want to replace one system that has a problem, with another system that has the exact same problem?

@WilyRickWiles
Please use the most prominent examples of capitalism today and compare with the most prominent socialist systems.
I am not stopping you.

The difference between free market capitalism with a sound mix of personal and social responsibility which we find in Scandinavia and Finland and to a lesser extent in NZ and other highly prosperous countries and the socialist failures everywhere is clear.

US capitalism may have some way to go still and there is room for improvement, however no system and no country in the world has lifted people out of poverty as significantly as the US capitalist system.

That is why millions are trying to immigrate to the US and similar countries and no one tries to immigrate to socialist “utopias”.

@Hanno Can you give me some numbers on lifting people out of poverty? Pretty sure China gets that title.

@Hanno You're really far afield from your original point, btw, or any point I made for that matter.

@WilyRickWiles
Well so are you. I just responded to your comments.

On China, yes, that is why people are streaming to immigrate there...

China is lifting 10% of its people by placing 90% in slavery. They are the most imperialistic country in the world today.
The fact that you want to change the US but are quiet about China is a bit like the feminists who wants to change US boardrooms but are quiet about woman abuse elsewhere.

But yes, we are of topic so will end the conversation here. You may still respond but I will not respond again. Thanks for the discussion.

@Hanno I live in the US, dude, and I hardly have political power here.

@Hanno Facts: The US has hegemony over the dominant economic system, capitalism; I live in the US; I have material grievances with the US from childhood and its political system continues to shape my reality because I live there; in order to address the issues from my childhood in a positive way, I've tried to learn about history and how the capitalism system works and affects everyone.

You: "Funny that you don't criticize China instead of the US."

0

LOL, "storm" LOL.

1

Nails it!

2peros Level 8 Jan 14, 2021

What is it called when you ignore the mountain of data? [washingtonpost.com]

Election fraud.

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