8 5

there’s a reason i put that im willing to admit there are radicals on both side in my fb post earlier. between both here and that post it just amazes me the number of times I have people clearly trying to sway me to a conservative position because i open up with a more moderate “attention grabber” as they used to call it in English class. like maybe if you read the whole thing first before you started responding you'd realize we actually agree and chances are i made the point you were trying to tell me and we could have saved ourselves some time arguing over something we don’t even disagree about. like i made the more moderate position because i actually want to have a discussion with the the other side and therefor am at least willing to extend an olive branch and meet them in the middle first so we arent starting off with swords drawn because every time i start with an accusation the other side does the same thing and starts typing out their objection before even listening to the wholr argument being made. i get it sometimes the posts are long and annoying to read but at the same time they almost have to be since at this point ifnyou are a conservative it isn’t enough to just make a statement you have to write a 5 page thesis on it to make sure you arent taken out of context and even then you still are most times

Joehlert11 6 Jan 12
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Hello. Does one's opinion always have to be labeled as to whether it is conservative or liberal? One should be free to change one's opinion as the circumstances change although one's core principles stay the same.

Naomi Level 8 Jan 14, 2021

i mean when discussing the position without outlining it in its entirety, i do believe so as most fall one way or the other. and if not the i see no reason one cannot label it a moderate view if that is what they believe it to be. and you are right people can change their view but that doesn't change that the view is one or the other if not somewhere between the two.

@Joehlert11 I know I sound naive when I say this but I believe that we are all conservative in that we want to conserve good things that are working well for us all, and we are all liberal in that when there needs to be a change to improve the current situation, we will consider it.

@Naomi based on the actual definitions, yes, perhaps. but in terms if actual political leanings and definitions, no

Sometimes our principles are REVEALED as we meet circumstances.

@Terence57 Good point. 🙂 Not all principles are good.

To put it another way, for a principle to have value, it has to be applicable. That means it has to comport on some level w/ reality. Principles can be implemented fairly easily or they can cost you your life---there is a huge range spanning from the convenient to the nearly impossible. Principles are ...uh...challenging.


For those confused by what im getting at, picture the comedy sketches of those saying words of endearment to one another angrily


I know what you mean.


So what in your opinion is a Conservative position.

Conservatism is a political philosophy advocating the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake .

i do think change is allowed but i do think there are established things that should not be changed. i mean i believe in moral absolutes and that there is THE truth not yours or my truth and as we have a better understanding of THE truth i think things can change but many of the changes brought up from progressives seem to be more based in opinion and personal truth and trying not to offend one another’s personal truth

@Joehlert11 LOL dear god.... do you think being a conservative means stagnation and absolutely no change? That's what Progressives think. And they my friend are idiots.

@Lightman i specifically said i am fine with change but i think change based in THE truth not just because we don't want to offend others and allow prople to freely do as they want

@Joehlert11 Conservatives base their opinions in truth... I do. I'm a Conservative... you seem confused.

@Lightman im not sure if you are doing it intentionally or nit based on my initial post but it would seem we actually agree unless im missing something you are saying

@Joehlert11 I can't tell if we agree... you seem very confused by what you are saying.
I know what I'm saying.


You cannot reason with extremes. Remember, they're extreme because they abandoned reason in the first place.
When you get to radical extremes like fascists or communists, you are dealing with political jihadists whose cognitive dissonance has no limit.

Tom81 Level 7 Jan 12, 2021

agreed. i just find it hysterical when its the radicals on the side the post is in favor of. like dude we AGREE, why are you arguing lol


I have no interest is swaying you to a conservative position. I will speak the truth, and you have the choice of hearing it or not. That's up to you.

my point more so has to do with the fact they make an argumentative response or just reiterate the point i just made. its like did they read what i said? like the comment makes ni sense because i said just what they did initialiy


Not all conservatives. I'm a moderate conservative in some issues. And not in others. I appreciate the peacemaker of all walks.

yeah i try as much as i can but these days even just trying gets you yelled at because just bringing up a controversial issue is too much for most even if you are trying to understand and ask questions and find commonality. like i brought up the fact that with the whole $600 stimulus we all agreed the government sucks, hell Conservatives were will to turn on Republicans but why donthe Liberals and Progressives continue to shield Democrats?

@Joehlert11 well, that's why I am no longer liberal. They are too lockstep and do not challenge each other enough.

@Joehlert11 well, one of many reasons actually

@MichelleD mine was cuz of how they acted after Trump won in 2016. like at that point i prob would have preferred Hilary by a small margin but now after having Trump im fine with it. maybe that’s why i didnt fall into the same hysteria as many of them and could see the reaction for what it was. and yeah is it upsetting to see conservatives act the same way after criticizing Democrats for 4 years, yes, but honestly when they taught us for 4 years this behavior was acceptable im nit sure what they expected. like i hoped we could have been better but add to it the attacks on us as well and the pandemic it’s sort of natural and now conservatives are the bad guys for acting the way they criticized the others. im not even sure id callmit hypocritical of conservatives at this point either given it was Democrats who said this behavior was fine. and if we are going to call conservatives hypocrites for acting this way now the Democrats are hypocrites for being afainst it. where i definitely disagree with conservatives being hypocritical is with “blue lives matter” and the language around the protests. with blue lives they hit a breaking point and were tired of seeing cops defend the left. and this, while violent was much more an accurate protest than anything blm did. at least they went after the target of their rage (i.e politicians). and the left however are so hypocritical on “acab” are bad though and their position on how it was handled. they want to boil it all down to one issue, race. as a disabled individual i wish i could boil down every hardship and inconsistency in my life as to how i am treated to one issue despite their being multiple other factors in play as to why things went one way for me and not others.

@Joehlert11 OMG, critical race theory and PC is the thing I hate most. I'm a care provider for the state of Oregon and I'm choking on this toxic, destructive, and wasteful BS.

@MichelleD prob would have been the turning point for me if i had stayed with it long enough. though i think i was mostly Democrat leaning because i didnt know a ton of Republicans till college and was better able to understand their view after talking to them and realized i prob lined up with them more in the end aside from a few issues and even where we disagreed i began to realize it wasnt so much that one side advocated for one thing that the other didnt so much as it was the method by which they sought to fix the problen.

@MichelleD i kind if wonder what woukd have happened had i hadnt transferred schools my jr year of college. Trump actually held a rally at my first school while i was more liberal. the students and staff leaned more liberal too but the town the college was in was the county seat fir the RNC so thats why he spoke there but the point being is i wonder if i would have gotten caught uonin the anti-Trump rhetoric or actually listened

@Joehlert11 well, we follow what we know until we discover something new


But to me that sounds more like a surrender, they have us backed up all over the place and if you wave the white flag you are done.

Rick-A Level 8 Jan 12, 2021

I mean i still lay out my position pretty clear and stick to the heart of my argument. like the one in question my opening was that “for arguments sake lets say what Trump said incited violence” to at least give us a starting point to go off of because if all i open with is a defense of Trump immediately ive just shot down any argument because i know they are going to just see thag and immediately just start a shouting match at how they are right and im wrong and we made ni progress. this way at least we can now start from a middle ground that if they want to be right anout what he said being wrong now also defend why their side is right when saying the same thing. if it starts as a defense of Trump out the gate im now automatically having to play defense in a losing game. the issue is the Right Wing Radicals who are just as bad and don't read further and immediately attack pointlessly because they commented before herding the argument out.

@Joehlert11 I'm going to send you a video you might appreciate

@MichelleD oh boy. if you have an idea if whet in getting at by the initial post i have sone idea what you might send. if not, i think the best explanation if what i was trying to get across is is that it turns into the old comedy routine if a couple angrily saying words of endearment to one another.

@Joehlert11 its safe. just debate strategy

@MichelleD I'd like to see the video plz.

@dd54 It's a playlist. The one vid will give you 5. Gimme a sec. It's in my text on phone app


@dd54 Obviously, I am ridiculously bad at it.

@MichelleD the current political climate reminds me of the 60s. Living in Selma during vibil rights was no picnic when you're white and your best friend is black. It was a very biolent time. What bothers me now is not the disagreement but the blatant hypocrisy of the dems and the owned media talking heads. I do believe that the globalists are stirring the pot to keep people's emotions hot and fixated on dirty politics and the fear of covid while they continue to pursue their political power and plan of global domination. I also think that the dems don't want the socialism the progressives want so they chose biden which they can control and harris was a dig bone thrown in to placate the progressive faction. Additionally I think there is something off about the Capitol breach and that there were both far left and right extremists involved and egging people on that were ready to explode to act on their emotions and anger over the lockdowns, business closures, blm and antifa riots, censoship and the final straw was the elections. A Nation divided will fall so I'm looking for strategies to employee to open a conversation with the progressive left and democrats. Thanks for sharing the video. I had forgotten the days of star studded casts. LOL,
Henry Fonda...what a trip.

@MichelleD not any worse and in fact sometimes better than the rest of us that love our country.

@dd54 your welcome and thank you

@MichelleD i def try to follow much of this when possible but i am human and unlike the example here many times the audience and opposition aren't strangers so that comes into play more than i would like at tines from both sides thus causing the atmosphere to change and some of these principles harder to adhere to

@Joehlert11 definitely. Some of those strategies are definitely not something I'm naturally inclined to do.


Just in passing I overheard your conversation and watched that wonderful video.
The bleeding heart that got the criminal off, will be the new Chief Justice.
Yes the guy did it, we have the witness, we have the knife. He could be dangerous obviously. Intent is implied?
Prove its a knife, that it was his knife and that he didn’t know that a knife is a dangerous instrument. It was in his pocket but who put it there and why? We don’t know these things! Poor guy is the victim of the knife, would you ask?
Now we are confused and so we contend that the dead man is to blame because he isn’t here to dispute these facts. He’s therefore an unreliable witness and I must therefore dismiss him because he has no jurisdiction or standing.
The new world order.

@Rick-A I don't disagree with you, if it's clear evidence or, in general requires a quick response. However, I like to see things from as many directions as I can, test things for their truth, and try to poke holes into easy made assumptions. I know that what appears one way on the surface is not always the way it actually is. I to ask questions and investigate potential flaws to what might look solid.

I definitely respect your view. We need people who can make quick unwavering decisions in certain situations. And there are situations that need that approach. As a cop, it suits you. But, I work with people who are institutionalized for mental health and/developmental disabilities. The only time I make snap decisions is if I have to physically restrain someone.

@MichelleD I see you point and I understand your sentiments because you are helping people that are outside of this arena. No I am not a cop though.
I see the real word where skills are pitted against each other to bring the truth out either way. If the victims could speak then we would know the facts so the truth is not always clear. That’s where we rely on skill. I would rather hang a guilty man than 100 possible innocents.
So the subject related to “that sounds like a surrender to me”.
The issue here is clear-cut in my mind. The opposition will stoop at nothing and we all know from experience that the victims will be punished in abstentia, and surrender becomes the only appeasement you can offer.
My attitude is this, you can’t deal with hateful people like Pelosi unless you employ skill and a keen understanding of how to overcome their evil.
To quote them, “The end justifies the means.”
Take that as you will.

@Rick-A I agree, there is a time for everything. As for the cop thing, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. I was thinking of someone else. I'm tired. Was a interesting night ar work. 🙃

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