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Guys, just a friendly reminder that we lost the culture war in 2019. What do you think will be like watching back at 2020 next year?

Krunoslav 9 Oct 16
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0

History?

guru Level 9 Oct 16, 2020

History?

@Krunoslav Attempted humor because it will be in the past. 🙂

@guru True. I suppose.

What's the expression, those who do not remember the lessons of the past are condemn to repeat them until they pass the test.

0

Art is subjective. In 1919, Marcel Duchamp made a famous piece of art which was literally a copy of the Mona Lisa but with a mustache and goatee. Art has always been subjective, not just in 2019.

Time person of the year makes no comment about whether they were good or bad. It just has to do with how popular and how much of an impact they made. Hitler and Stalin were person of the year in 1938 and 1939. Do you deny that Thunberg made an impact? Who would you prefer be the person of the year?

I won't comment on the athlete one, as I am sure we have different opinions and you are entitled to yours. I can recognize why you would take issue.

What is wrong with John Legend being the sexiest man alive? If we want to have a more controversial choice, why not when Blake Shelton was sexiest man alive in 2017? Beauty is also subjective. Who would you prefer be the choice? Also, this is People Magazine. Why do you care what a liberal rag has to say?

Art was not subjective until modernity. You could not pull charlatan move as Marcel Duchamp and be considered artist. Its modern invention and Duchamp showed how absurd it is. He was making a social commentary. not art, much like Andy Warhol who said: “Art is what you can get away with.” As a result we got crap, being presented as art, by people who make money from it.

"Damien Hirst said; “Art is about life and the art world is about money.” What art market is good at judging is what is good for the market, not necessarily what is good for the artist or the art itself. The art market functions much like any other market. Art market has not interest in increasing knowledge about art for the knowledge sake. It doesn't even have interest in art for art sake. It has interest in art market for profit sake. Common good and morality or skill are not the primary interests if its even an interest at all, much like in any capitalistic market the goal is to increase profit and continue to drive sales with whatever means necessary. Often the practices are unethical and even illegal, especially in the contemporary art market which is unregulated. Andy Warhol was right when he said: "Art is what you can get away with." because it captures the essence of what the art world has become."

The banana with a the duck tape was attempt to out-Duchamp, Marcel Duchamp by showing that culture has become even dumber. It was a success. Not as art, but as cultural commentary.

Time person of the year is a mentally handicapped, 16-year old high school drop out, acting the role that her overseers and financiers globalist like Al Gore and George Soros have given her. How dare you suggest this is the best humans can produce. A walking talking miniature propaganda shill for politicians. Get serious.

The Female Athlete is not Female. Full stop.

What is wrong with John Legend being the sexiest man alive? Oh , I don't know, his testosterone test came back negative. If he was a female, unlike the athlete, it might work, but as is.... I don't know seems like it must be something else than manhood at play, all that "diversity and inclusion" doctrine and celebrity status.... got John Roger Stephens (not named legend BTW) his title.

You are correct, I don't care what Peoples Magazine has to say, but apparently enough people do that Peoples Magazine is still in business. That is scary.

A society that worships celebrities is doomed. You know what a celebrity is? A sign of celebrity is that its name is often worth more than its services. Tabloids are the ones that voted for him because it sells more tabloids. Its an industry build out of neurotic house of cards. The only thing real about this industry is the danger it represents to anything of value in the society.

@Krunoslav

Art

You are making exactly my point with your art comments. A lot of it is social commentary, and yes what you can get away with. As I said before, it is subjective. In ancient times tons of art contained nude figures, and then the world got more prudish and it was seen as lewd. You have movements such as cubism and surrealism and abstract expressionism and pop art. Art changes with the times. You may not like it, but I don't see why you feel like 2019 was any different than other years when it comes to art.

TIME

Again, Time's Person of the Year is someone who made an impact. It doesn't matter who they are specifically, or if you like or dislike them. A lot of people, you included apparently, seem to make personal attacks on Thunberg because of her views. She certainly elicits a strong reaction from you. You cannot disagree that she has made an impact, regardless of whether you see it as beneficial. Who is saying she is the "best humans can produce"? Again, Hitler and Stalin were once the POTY. Would you say they are the best humans could produce? It is about impact and infamy. The Me Too movement was POTY in 2017. Trump was in 2016. The Pope was in 2013. Obama was in 2012 and 2008. Zuckerberg was in 2010. Were you okay with all of these? Why is 2019 any different?

I wonder if you would attack Thunberg or make up conspiracies if she was advocating for anti-trans topics, which you seem to advocate? I see this kind of thinking a lot from conservatives. Take David Hogg for example, one of the students at the Parkland shooting who became a gun violence activist. All I saw from conservative media were personal attacks on Hogg, and the concept of "why are we listening to a kid"? Yet when another Parkland survivor, Kyle Kashuv, came out as a conservative Turning Point advocate for gun rights, the conservative media lapped it up and raved about him and basically switched their position to "let's listen to this kid, he is the future".

Well, I think Thunberg fits this narrative as well, where conservatives like to make personal attacks and dismiss her just because they disagree with her views. You make up lies about her being a puppet of globalists / the conservative anti-Semitic bogeyman Soros. You make up lies about her dropping out of school. You attack her autism as a way to dismiss anything she says.

Athlete

Again I won't touch this topic. You are entitled to your opinion.

People Magazine

John Legend's testosterone test? What the hell are you going on about? Even if you don't think he is "manly" that is once again subjective, and he can still be seen as desirable. Being a multi-talented EGOT winner doesn't hurt. Again, look at the pick of Blake Shelton in 2017 - plenty of people expressed their confusion as to who actually thought he was sexy. Why aren't you bringing that up, why is this year different? Why are you making a point of criticizing him for having a stage name, as if other celebrities don't? Personally I am not a big fan of Legend, especially after he defended Kanye for walking on stage and interrupting Taylor Swift and Beck. But my personal opinions aside, I can see why people would like him.

You say you don't care what People Magazine has to say, yet here you are making a fuss about it. Of course our society has a celebrity worship fetish. It's why we elected a reality show host as president. It's why criminals and low-lives get wealthy and famous. It's why people like Kaitlin Bennett become famous for deciding to walk around with a gun, or a holier-than-thou evangelical teenager gets to write books and be on Dancing With The Stars because she was a hypocrite and got pregnant. Our society has been going off the rails with this for decades. Why is 2019 special?

@JacksonNought I'm making a point about "art" is that is has been redefined by the people who don't care about it for the sake of money and social commentary. In the process art has lost something important. Skill.

"Art is skill, that is the first meaning of the word."
Eric Gill

Artist is a person who is genuinely expressing a creative original idea with the use of skill. Inner world of the artist reflected into the outer world via skillful means. Once you compare art pieces of art can judge the quality of skill and quality of message.

Stealing urinal from the local bathroom and writing something on it, is neither skillful, nor is it genuine, or even original. Go to many public school bathrooms and you will see high school kids writing their names on everything, does that make it art? No off course not. And neither can if you put it in the museum. Only you managed to do is de-legitimize the museums or so called art gallerias. Duchamp was not expressing his inner world., or have a worthy idea, he was making fun of ever more dumber art market accepting ever dumber ideas. I don't think even her was convinced they will buy it. But I guess no one should underestimate the depths of human stupidity. After that the only thing it manged to do is produce even bigger charlatans with even less integrity like Jeff Koons and Damien Hirst. If you think those are artists, I can't help you. Sorry. No one can. That business pure and simple. No different than Duracell trying to adverise their battery with a bunny, at least the comercial has some skill involved in it, the art market has abandoned even the skill.

Not all modern or contemporary produces are art and not all sucks, but there are very few that are. And non can measures with the past when it comes to skill and human achievements. It just can't. Different does not make one better, that is postmodernist delusion. Things can be compared and judged. Quality matters. Different is not enough.

About Greta and trans-

First of all I'm not making up conspiracies about Great, this is common Marxist tactic, use children as shield for political agenda so its not civilized to criticize, its disgusting, but so are lefties. its their MO. It has nothing to do with climate or her expertise. She was chosen as a human shield because she is half restarted child, and its not proper to criticize half retired children. So globalist like Al Gore and Soros, who finance her, can use her as proxy to spread politics. Now I don't care if they are using Great or Gregor for that, the very disguising method of laying and using that disgusting tactics is what I'm against. Apparently you don't seem to under the concept of integrity and why it matters.

As for her views. Are you freaking kidding me? I'm supposed to take into account views of high school drop out girl with autism and with no knowledge or experience about virtually anything in the world on the matters of super complex issue of climate change? Ger serious. or in the world of little Swedish puppets: How dare you? Send her back to school for another thousand years and than maybe I'll be interested in what she has to say. Man, you have some of the lowest standards for judging anything . Are you postmodernist? lol

And trans crap is exactly that. Its not possible to be transgender. Its impossible. Only insane person can claim that. Unfortunately trans activists try to make everyone else think their insanity is everyone else reality. I didn't ask for personal to be political, they did. I'm not supporting lunatics running the asylum.

As for person of the year vote. I agree with you virtually everyone who is voted by that magazine is a celebrity and its a pop culture criteria, what sells most magazines is what everyone knows. Problem is when such magazine stays in business, it means that enough people believe it to buy it. That is what I'm remarking upon.

Athlete

"Again I won't touch this topic. You are entitled to your opinion."

Yes we all are. But not our own facts. And that dude is not female. There is no ifs and buts and I identify as and I am of the opinion. Its a fact. Dude has a penis, unless he chopped it off, which means he is not a she.

“A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five.”Groucho Marx

As for John Legend.... he ain't a legend. And I'm not SJW, neither is majority of the world. So no its not subjective, its very much objective critique of another political propaganda. Now I know you are postmodernist, you subscribe to "absolute relativism" commonly know as absurdity. Standards exists and things are not subjective, some are, most are not. The reason why losers invented that there are no standards is that they could compete under their rules-..... rule of language. That is what postmodernist ideology is. That all truths are relative except this one. In other words that truth is what you can express with language. Well it does not work like that. There are consequences for low standards. And things and people and performances can be judged and they are. otherwise non of us would be here. Evolution by natural selection would not allow it. For the time being evolution by artificial selection allows it, but there are consequences for that as well.

Why is 2019 special?

It has reached a new height in low standards. This year I imagine will get even worse. But you can go only so low before everything falls apart. Than you go back to reality, of using objective standards for measuring quality. It took countless generations to get here, not by electing celebrities but people who had something more to offer and when it all crushes down, that will be very hard to rebuild. And that is why I care.

@Krunoslav

"Stealing urinal from the local bathroom and writing something on it, is neither skillful, nor is it genuine, or even original." Exactly. That happened in 1917. So why are you complaining about 2019 as if it is suddenly a new concept?

"...this is common Marxist tactic, use children as shield for political agenda so its not civilized to criticize..." and you don't think conservatives use children? How many times do you see children at pro-life or Trump rallies holding up signs, which they clearly have no idea what they mean? How many times are children forced to undergo religious indoctrination? Like I said before, it is a problem when you disagree (Hogg) but greatness when you agree (Kashuv). You have no actual evidence that Thunberg is being controlled by some "globalist" so until you have actual fact-based evidence, it is nothing but conspiracy and conjecture.

Again, you seem to agree with me on the point of the Person of the Year, yet you are only complaining about 2019?

You are factually incorrect on transgenderism. That is all I will say on the matter.

What the hell are you talking about? When have I ever said I was a postmodernist or believed in absolute relativism? You are just making shit up now. You really seem to have an axe to grind against John Legend, and are going into "snowflake" territory over the opinion of a magazine you claim to not care about. How is some arbitrary superficial magazine marketing akin to political propaganda?

@JacksonNought I'm not talking about one year in particular, I'm making a point about the sad state of culture as being on downward spiral for many years and 2019 encapsulates how low it has fallen. I though that was obvious.

I'm politically incorrect on trans insanity as much as you are factually incorrect on it. Define me what is a woman and what is a man. And than explain to me how is possible to transition other than in ones head. Which is definition of insanity. You are postmodernist even if you don't seem to realize it. Who else would claim all is subjective and relative? It is not. Including trans stuff.

"How is some arbitrary superficial magazine marketing akin to political propaganda?"

In what year do you live in? Jeez. Its painfully obvious that so called woke ideology has infected all of the pop culture and beyond. Oscars now have quotas for how many black people they will reword . Do you think that John NON legend got on the list because he is" sexists man alive" or because of "diversity and inclusion" doctrine and that he is a celebrity. If you don't get that, you are about 50 years behind the culture war. Its virtue signaling political propaganda. Just like Greta story.

“Comrade, your statement is factually incorrect.”
“Yes, Dimitry, it is. But it is politically correct.”

“The point of Political Correctness is not and has never been merely about any of the items that it imposes, but about the imposition itself. Tacit collaboration by millions who bite their lip is even more essential than lip service by thousands of favor seekers. Hence, to stimulate at least passive cooperation, the party strives to give the impression that “everybody” is already on its side. ”

― Angelo Codevilla (The Rise of Political Correctness)

“Political correctness is the natural continuum from the party line. What we are seeing once again is a self-appointed group of vigilantes imposing their views on others. It is a heritage of communism, but they don't seem to see this.” ― Doris Lessing

@Krunoslav what is your obsession with John Legend? What did he ever do to you? You really seem to hate him. Other than thinking his "sexiest man alive" title is wrong, what do you hate about him? How is it only because of diversity and inclusion? If you are so concerned with "SJW" then why not criticize Dwayne Johnson in 2016 being the first non-white winner in 20 years, or Idris Elba in 2018? Why not criticize the boiled-potato Blake Shelton winning in 2017 in order to be "diverse and inclusive" of non-liberal-elite rural conservative Trump supporters?

Political correctness and factual correctness are not mutually exclusive. For example, it is not politically correct to claim all black people are genetically less intelligent than white people. But it is also not factually correct. It is politically correct to say that homosexuality is not a choice, but it is also factually correct. And your opinion on trans issues is both politically incorrect and factually incorrect.

@JacksonNought I don't know John Not Legend, and I'm not hating him. I'm criticizing his appearance in the category of "sexiest man alive".

"If you are so concerned with "SJW" then why not criticize Dwayne Johnson in 2016 being the first non-white winner in 20 years, or Idris Elba in 2018? Why not criticize the boiled-potato Blake Shelton winning in 2017 in order to be "diverse and inclusive" of non-liberal-elite rural conservative Trump supporters?"

This was not a post of one individual or another, but of the culture in general posted in the group called "culture war". I suppose I should ask, why are you defending individuals.

"Political correctness and factual correctness are not mutually exclusive. " True, but that is not their goal. Political correctness does not exist to affirm the factual truth, but to affirm the political position of a party. If it happens that fact fit their narrative than it will be also political correct. But don't play dumb. everyone knows what political correctness is. Its a political weapon used to control language, narrative. Its a form of a linguistic fascism.

As for trans insanity , you dismiss it but provide no evidence. Define me what a woman and man are?

BTW. Are you one of trans individuals? You seems to keep talking about it , but you hide behind an avatar and probably fake name. So are you, one of those people?

@Krunoslav you aren't "hating" John Legend but you keep acting like an adolescent on the playground with your "not legend" infantile insults. Seems like he touches a nerve to elicit such an emotional reaction. Why don't you think he could qualify as a "sexy man"? What specifically disqualifies him?

Yes, my name is fake. Why would I put my real name here, as a liberal on a primarily conservative site, so people could target me in the real world? I doubt your name is real either. Why are you so concerned about American politics and culture if you are based in Croatia? Is that your real face in your avatar?

No I am not trans. But just because I am not part of that group doesn't mean I can't champion their freedom and rights. I am also straight-edge, but I advocate for marijuana legalization.

I've seen you converse with TheMiddleWay before on the trans topic. He has said it better than I, yet you still deny facts. Sex and gender are different - gender is a social construct. You previously insulted John Legend for "lacking testosterone" and said he'd be able to qualify as a female, despite the fact that he is a biological man, so you seem to support trans identity when it suits your insults?

@JacksonNought Gender and sex are same. And you still haven't defined women or man. Because its impossible to support the idiotic feminist language change. Let me know when you can do more than repeat feminist ideology and can actually define basic terms. What is a woman and what is a man.

I haven't insulted John, Not Legend. because he is not a legend, its a stage name. if he can choose name like legend than I can make fun of it, because its ridiculous. Other people call you legend, not yourself, unless you are juvenile.

I talked about T levels because its equally ridiculous that sexiest man alive, looks like a 12 year old. Unless you are 13 year old girl or soy boy why would you vote a person like that as the sexist man alive, there is nothing manly about him. He does not qualify. He is black, so there is that. First into the diversity and inclusion. Apparently you don't have T levels either because any self respecting man would look at someone like John and be like.... WTF? Apparently you don't get it. After all you say you are liberal and I can't see how you look, but I can only imagine. Probably your levels are low too, so you sympathize. This is man stuff. you would not get it.

BTW, no one would doxx you we are not cancel culture here or bunch of SJW's. You can say politically incorrect things here, in fact you are encourage to do so. So you can use your name.

You said: "No I am not trans. But just because I am not part of that group doesn't mean I can't champion their freedom and rights. I am also straight-edge, but I advocate for marijuana legalization."

Freedom and rights? Ha! that's a good one. Being insane is not a right, and its freedom until you are danger to yourself and others. Trans activists are neither. And because I'm not supporting trans-communism , I'm here on this site.

You know what you know, I see. But don't know much. Also who but a lost soul would join something like straight-edge? And why would someone who apparently according to the basic idea behind straight-edge, would be against hedonism, than support all the hedonism of the left. Makes no sense.

But I guess that is why straight-edge subculture was created. For lost souls. Its a juvenile attempt to respond to counter culture and sex liberation revolution of the 1970's, but not ready to grow up just yet. And so a new sub culture was created. naturally there are variations within it, but it sounds to me like neither here nor there. Neither going full on hedonism or accepting moral and cultural ties of the past, but somewhere in the middle. A refuge camp for low self esteem individuals who don't quite feel they can belong to anything else. So they are stuck in a limbo called straight-edge. Now it makes sense when I read your posts. That is how they come across.

@Krunoslav gender and sex are not the same. With that, you show you are faulty from the start.

If we are talking sex / biology, a man is one with male genes and reproductive organs, and a female is one with female genes and reproductive organs. A man could get get testicular cancer and need them removed, at which point he needs to take testosterone supplements to regulate his hormones - would you no longer consider him a man? A woman could get a hysterectomy and a mastectomy - would you no longer consider her a woman? This also stays the same no matter the presentation or role the person plays - you could have a female who comes across as a male with short hair and baggy clothes and whathaveyou, but they are still a woman. You could have a male who comes across as a female, maybe even they perform drag or cross-dress, but they are still a man. And going even further, simple XX or XY genetics aren't the be-all end-all, as there are other combinations and variations.

[blogs.scientificamerican.com]
[scientificamerican.com]

Then if we are talking gender, it is a social construct. Think about how people throw genders onto non-humans all the time, such as with ships or cars. Why can't we give the same consideration to people? If we are talking gender and society, a man is anyone who identifies as a man, a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, and then there are people who don't conform to a binary gender system. This doesn't mean we automatically need to start letting people into domestic violence shelters and sports competitions and everything, but if we could move past the bigotry (and it is mainly religious bigotry, but you'll have non-religious bigotry as well) then we could actually start having a real conversation about how to properly accept trans identity into modern life.

You are insulting John Legend, as you keep making infantile bastardizations of his name. He is clearly living rent-free in your head, and you have an unhealthy obsession with him. Clearly you seem upset that people find him more attractive than you, is that it? Do tell, who do you think should be the sexiest man?

And what the hell is a soy boy? Is that your typical incel insult of vegan men? Some sort of dig at vegans for not being manly enough in your eyes? Do tell, which one these vegans seems like a "soy boy" to you?

[menshealth.com]
[greatveganathletes.com]
[educateinspirechange.org]

I take it you are not a vegan? Please show us some pictures of what you really look like, and we can judge you on how "manly" we think you are.

And I am not stupid. I am not using my real identity. Most people on this site, while I adamantly disagree with them, seem fine. Others, well I see the wet dreams they have of going around slaughtering people they disagree with, just waiting with bated breath for a new civil war. I have made no secret that I am ethnically Jewish, and I have had anti-Semites on this site praise Hitler and express their desire to exterminate all Jews. So yeah, I am not going to be sharing my real identity.

What is trans-communism? Do you even know what communism is, or are you just throwing that buzzword around as the typical conservative bogeyman?

Also what exactly about straight edge would make me a lost soul? I choose not to smoke, drink, or do drugs. But hey, that is my choice and like with everything else, I support the freedom of others to make their own choice on the matter, as long as it doesn't force itself on me. That seems to be the difference between us, I am okay with functioning adults making decisions for themselves even if I don't agree with it, I don't want to force them to conform to my viewpoint like we are living in an autocracy / theocracy.

To be clear, I use straight-edge as an easy term to let people know my personal stance on drugs and alcohol. I guess you could also call me a teetotaler, but that doesn't quite cover it and most people are unfamiliar with the term. I have no actual allegiance to the actual straight-edge movement or its punk origins, and I am not a vegan and not abstinent, or any other variations of the identity. Purely no smoking, drugs, or alcohol. But even still, I am willing to let people live their lives how they wish, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else (e.g. driving while intoxicated).

@JacksonNought You are wrong about sex and gender. You also have no clue about science apparently or basic bilogy. And since what is obviously easy term became politically complicated, sex and gender are the same thing.... I've covered and disputed all of the arguments already, so here is the link to it....

[slug.com]

Trans communism is exactly that. BLM described themselves as trans supporting Marxists that want to destroy western civilization even family units and concept of gender. In other words trans-communists. Its not a buzz word, its based on description they provide. Apparently you can't read neither biology or political ideology. So for you it is a buzz word.

@Krunoslav I read your thread, and consistently you were shot down. I don't know what that proves other than you are ill-informed.

I don't know what BLM has to do with trans identity or rights? So you are lumping all trans people in with a select organization? Does that mean I can lump all Christians in with the Westboro Baptist Church? All pro-America people in with Proud Boys? All gun rights people in with the Boogaloo movement? All pro-cop people with white supremacists?

@JacksonNought Dude I was not shut down, no one proved otherwise, they just disagreed. Which is not how biology works, but whatever makes you feel better.

"I don't know what BLM has to do with trans identity or rights?"

Err.... maybe you are far too behind the culture war to get it. In fact you surly are. The ideologies are all Marxist in their world view and exist because one provided foundation for the other. If you knew the history of the movements than you would know why they are all linked. They also fight each other true, but they all share same Marxist world view and they all believe same tenants.

Just like you can indeed link Christians with the Westboro Baptist Church. Same roots. Technically you could link all gun rights people in with the Boogaloo but its more lose because they differ over the reasons of something already established. They also don't have the same roots. So they would be very very loosely based on only one thing, pro militia established by second amendment.

I am getting board with this exchange to be honest. You are not going to agree with me and I doubt I will with you. So I think we can both spend our time better.

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