Are you equating Black people to Strasserites, all liberals and leftists to Marxists, then to the Nazi elite, and then to Stalinists? Bizarre.

Yes there is a lot of nuance in the history. Even sometimes within families. My great great grandfather was an adherent and advocate of British Israelism and his wife later fought the KKK in government.

Howdy @Jaster_Mereel,

Morman's followed the doctrine of the Mark of Cain and the Curse of Ham up until the middle 1970s. Blacks were considered inferior and not allowed into the priesthood.

When Joseph Smith founded his religion most converts were from New York and anti-slavery. He ran for president as an abolitionist. After Brigham Young took over he changed that to slavery being ordained by God.

When the Republican Party was founded, its platform included the "abolition of those twin relics of babarism, slavery and polygamy." The former was general, the latter was aimed squarely at Brigham Young and the Mormons.

@timon_phocas Not exactly true. The Mormons believed that only African Blacks could not hold the priesthood. Joseph Smith himself ordained a Black man from the West Indies...

Yeah, I know. They're all from Africa originally. I used to be a Mormon.

Howdy @Tycho,

Interestingly enough, my birth family was Morman as well.

I was surprised to learn that Joseph Smith was an abolitionist and had raised African Americans to the priesthood. Pleasantly surprised.

The change seemed to come with Brigham Young and Missouri (a slave state). That and his hostility to Abraham Lincoln and Republicans in general.

Why do you equate "chaos" with mass murder? And movements for Black equality and antifascism with Marxism?

@WilyRickWiles
Of course 20+ dead is not mass murder at all...
And you know the BLM leaders are all Marxist.

@WilyRickWiles

“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,”

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,”

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors

@wolfhnd OK, you found two Marxists in a decentralized movement.

@Hanno Something tells me you're being very loose with your definitions as well. E.g., anyone who is Black or utters the words "Black lives matter" are BLM activists or protesters.

@Jaster_Mereel Regardless, the left is heterodox. It's not particularly Marxist, though it recognizes Marx as a an important thinker. Likewise, those who fund leftist organizations aren't particularly Marxists. Soros derives his ideas from Karl Popper. That's only Marxist if you problematically conflate his Jewishness and internationalism with Marxism.

@Jaster_Mereel They're organized in the same way that the rest of the left is organized. And he mentioned antifascists too.

@WilyRickWiles

Lol.

I know you must be right and cultural Marxism is a conspiracy theory, at least according to the same idiots who brought us the Trump-Russia conspiracy theory.

@wolfhnd Indeed. [reason.com]

The Trump-Russia thing was overblown, btw. Why blame Russia when Israel, Saudi Arabia, and US citizen Robert Mercer (including his UK organizations) were all involved? Why Russia when Trump has a history of fraud and money laundering?

Probably because they're trying to protect the military industrial complex and shady Whitey Bulger-esque dealings with informants by the FBI.

@Jaster_Mereel That brick thing was debunked.

@Jaster_Mereel And organization != centralization.

@WilyRickWiles
I am referring to the original context of wolfhnd comment.
He referred specifically to the people causing the problems...
Neither he nor I are stating that anyone saying black lives matter are all Marxist.

Both Wolfhnd and I stated many times that black lives matter.. just like white and Asian etc lives matter.

The Marxist in the BLM caused the chaos and the deaths... you still refuse to acknowledge the deaths.

@Hanno Which deaths? And how did she cause them?

@Jaster_Mereel Many were already there as part of construction projects. [snopes.com]

@WilyRickWiles
Who is she? Never mentioned a woman.

I am referring to the 20+ people murdered by your “peaceful protestors”... you know the ones you denied having died...

@Jaster_Mereel My point was that the basis of those rumors has been debunked. I'm happy to concede proven allegations though I'm not super interested.

@WilyRickWiles

It's a real stretch to associate Soros with Karl Popper in any thing other than the name "open society". The current left is nothing if not authoritarian although it believes itself to be "open minded". If Soros was a student of Popper he would be funding libertarians not quasi Marxists.

In any case I'm going with Steven Weinberg on this and saying the utility of philosophers to science is to oppose the bad ideas of other philosophers.

"It'll just go away if we don't look at it!" I didn't always know about my great great grandfather's belief and advocacy of "British Israelism" or everything about the Civil Rights Movement, but my ignorance did not prevent those ideas and historical movements from manifesting in modern life. With awareness, we can correct. More ignorance is not the solution.

This is counter to the value of free speech, by the way.