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Maybe someone can point me in the right direction here in regards to the whole mask debate. I agree businesses can deny service for not wearing then and this is not infringing on our rights. They require us to wear clothing upon entry and that is not an issue. Hell some formal resteraunts even require specific clothing (i.e jacket for men). Where I will agree the rights thing cones into play is the whole perpetuated myth that it was law and people calling the cops on each other for not wearing them. Also, were there states that did in fact try to make it law or poorly communicate the order as to suggest it may be law. For instance, i know in Pa Wolf definitely made it sound like law and not just a recommendation. I mean I am pretty sure i still see stores with “required by law”. If you have links ir articles for other states too that would be great. Most of what i can find or have found in past is pages into a search or amended since i first found it to make the “clvil liberties infringed” people sound more crazy since it isn’t law.

Joehlert11 7 July 12
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I don’t think it can be made law when there is no proof that it is effective in protecting from Covid. The WHO website says there is no proven evidence, and they have done a lot of flip flopping but still have that verbiage up in the site.

Salmon Level 5 July 13, 2020
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Prolong use of wearing the mask can cause many health risks. Breathing in too much exhaled carbon dioxide can be dangerous. I have a friend working in retail who is required to wear a mask. He lasted 2 days and had to call in sick. He suffered serious headaches and dizzyness. I feel for all these employees that have their health affected to appease the paranoid individuals.

FEWI Level 8 July 12, 2020
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The interesting thing is that, as far as I am aware, NO STATE has a law requiring a mask - though there are many with 'executive orders' demanding such. I am not aware of any legislature that has made a law requiring masks in ANY circumstances.

I do agree that businesses can demand patrons wear a mask in order for customers to enter - and people are free to avoid such businesses. Also, there is nothing wrong with individuals wanting to use a mask.

Executive orders are for the Executive branches of state and federal government behavior - not for the enforcement of behavior on the general population. Court cases that have made it to the conclusion (few) have, to the best of my knowledge, all resulted in the Courts invalidating the orders. Correctly so.

The arguments that the orders are enforceable during a 'health emergency' are disputed by the failure to adequately define the emergency and of course were invalidated the second 'approved protests' became exempt.

2

Nothing much to add to @TimTuolomne’s post, which covered the issues well. I would just point out that putting everyone in masks, even when so many truly believe they are pointless, serves a valuable conditioning purpose: We become accustomed to doing what we’re told, even when we sincerely believe it’s pointless. Science and objective truth have never figured into the response to this virus. Politics has been the primary motivator, from the start.

Let’s assume that this thing really did bubble up unbidden from the mud and muck of Wuhan and took everyone by surprise. Let’s. To assume otherwise opens up a vastly different conversation that is worth exploring, but perhaps not here. I simply point out that had the forces arraigned against Donald Trump been smart enough and organized enough to manufacture this pandemic from scratch, with the ultimate goal of destroying the Trump economy and giving the left the leverage they’ve been seeking since November, 2016, to bring the country to its knees, they couldn’t have engineered a more effective scenario than what has unfolded anyway, purely by chance. Supposedly.

I don’t know how you feel about random chance and coincidence in politics, but I’m inclined towards FDR’s observation that if something happens in politics, you can bet it was intended. So I can’t look at the mask issue as simply a case of misguided caution. It’s part of an agenda that includes wildly inaccurate models of the rate and spread of infection, fantasy projections of death tolls, a resultant lockdown that was forced to remain in place long after the initial justification was shown to be wholly bogus, the vehemence that greeted news that a $0.60 pill with a proven safety record might stop the disease in its tracks, and the politicians willing to keep the economy and the country hostage unless they get to ram their leftist agenda down our throats.

Think of wearing masks as little bite-sized morsels of shit that we don’t want to eat, but they’re tiny and go down without much fuss. And so we get used to eating their shit. When the buckets of shit start coming at us, we’ll swallow those too, not because we agree, not because we want to, but because it’s something we’ve learned to do. And saying “No,” is something we’ve forgotten how to do.

I apologize but i think you and tim missed what i was getting at. I agree with you in the reasons not to wear it by choice, but i also can respect it a business chooses to require them for entry the same as any other article of clothing. My issue is those saying it infringes their civil libraries. If it is law somewhere where you can actually be penalized for not wearing one i agree. I am not too familiar with every state’s order on them nor do i know how it has been conveyed everywhere. In Pa specifically it has and still is to some degree a bit tough to get a concrete answer as to whether it is law or just recommended. If law then yea h i dint agree with it and if poorly communicated what is and is not law inget the outrage because it is believed to be infringing rights even if it isnt and its the people in charge’s responsibilitiy to elaborate

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My 2 cents, I am against mask for a variety of reasons. That said if a business wants to require a mask, I think they are well within their right to do so. I think there is a wide range of views on the virus and the mask. I have mine, but I will honor the rights of others to have their own view. I can choose to wear a mask as required or shop elsewhere. Forcing everyone to adopt my views sort of sounds like another movement going on atm.

Yeah i agree at this point. I mean for me if i shop somewhere that isn't requiring it ill prob take it off. Im not a fan and frankly i don’t really think this thing is as deadly as people have been saying (to be clear not saying it isn’t deadly at all). Like there is so much unknown about it and what we do know keeps changing daily so if wearing it makes you feel safer so be it. And if you ask me nicely to wear it in order to interact with you i will but the issue i have is the legal side of it and is there anywhere it is ACTUALLY being enforced by law or at the very least not being corrected properly when people say it is “by law”

@Joehlert11 You and I are on the same page as far as feelings about the issue. I don't know if they are actually writing tickets for it, but the town near here has passed an ordinance requiring them inside most stores and shops. So I shop in the county, which has not made it mandatory and leaves it up to the stores.

@Lexpd1145 yeah i mean at this point basically every store requires it and there was a new order recently that sounds as if they are required [by law] just to leave your house. Looking into it, that isnt so but like i shouldn't have to look into that. And that is how you get people arguing over it being unconstitutional. I have the same issue with Trump sometimes. Say what you mean because your detractors hear what they want and they don't understand “Trumpish”. Because if that im willing to treat Democrat leaders the same way when what they say seems a bit out there, the only difference is it’s sort if 50/50 whether or not i misunderstood, with Trump, probably 90% of the time i think its just how he talks not what he meant

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Masks are practically irrelevant for many reasons.

COVID-19 is the latest version of the common cold. It is less dangerous than the flu.

This version of the common cold is more contagious than most, and it places anyone with serious pre-existing conditions in mortal danger, but no worse than the flu, and "flattening the curve" may be responsible for extended exposure of those at risk.

Dr Richard Bartlett of Texas has also found that Budecinide is an almost completely effective treatment. Media coverage? None. Political acceptance? None or negative without cause.

Most of us who don't smoke are in less danger of dying of COVID-19, than we are driving to the grocery.

In the US, there is lots of evidence of tampering with diagnoses in hospitals. The standard protocol demands listing death by pre-existing conditions, not listing the cause of death from complications, like COVID-19. I have seen an half dozen posts by medical professionals from across the country (Board of Medical Practice threatens to shut down a doctor. He said he is being "targeted" for comparing COVID-19 to the flu. Dr Jensen cited ICD 10 coding: "If the provider documents suspects ...a cause other than COVID-19, provider is obligated to not record it as COVID-19." Notes that massive overreporting is occurring in spite of that directive.[facebook.com]) that consistently say that now, doctors are ordered to report any person that is suspected of having COVID-19, which are determined, not by testing, but by a person exhibiting two of the following: sore muscles, fever, chills, headache, sore throat, weird tastes or smells. Or one of these: cough, shortness of breath, or difficulty breathing. They also include anyone who tests positive for antibodies (meaning anyone with the common cold, H1N1, or type 2 influenza), AND contact with anyone who "may have had" COVID-19. [cdn.ymaws.com]

Look at the data, and you will see all pre-existing conditions, and flu deaths far lower than average this year.

Also, more testing is not distinguishing between asymptomatic, or even contagious-asymptomatic positives. So cases appear to be increasing only because testing is increasing.

This serves the purposes of the politicians demanding more shutdown, more harsh controls, ie Democrats, who want you to believe this is the "new normal." And YOU are putting up with this.

If you want things to return to normal, vote out every single Democrat.

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