for me personally it was learning/accepting that there is no one way to be a woman, the only "requirement" for womanhood is being female. a woman isn't less of a woman because she feels more comfortable in men's clothing and having a short haircut, for example. i don't think there's a "spectrum" of gender roles, most societies have only come up with two. and since a major part of gender roles is heterosexuality, i think a lot of gays and lesbians experience some confusion as to how we fit.

@vvastelander I think (basing on guesswork) I disagree with some of your views.

Its interesting to me your comments on gender-roles and confusion and if you're trans purekt cuase "other people like me call themselves trans" maybe the advice should be, "look deeper"

But what about people who feel an absolute revulsion and turning away from their assigned gender or their sex. Are they a different group of people in your eyes?

(genuine question btw: this is not a trap I promise! )

@Creamegg i'm saying many of the gays and lesbians i've talked to have had some confusion, regardless of actual outward gender nonconformity, because not being heterosexual is inherently gender nonconforming. many of us have had those thoughts as children and teens like, "what if i'm meant to be the opposite sex (or it would be easier) because i'm attracted to the same sex as my opposite sex peers" if that makes sense? most gay and lesbian people grow out of this mindset as they get older and are able to accept themselves as homosexuals. and i was also saying in my example that a butch woman is not a man simply because she is masculine and likes to sleep and partner with women. i think a lot of contemporary trans politics are actually regressive regarding gender roles.

as to those people who have revulsion at their sex, or more clinically "significant distress," they would be diagnosable as having gender (sex) dysphoria, and i would hope they would utilize therapy as a means of treatment before going to medical intervention. we don't treat anorexia with liposuction and we don't treat body integrity identity disorder with amputation. not to say that i disagree wholly with medical transition, i just think it should not be the first line of treatment, and it definitely should not be as easily accessible as it is now.

i also disagree entirely with medical transition for children and teens. especially since studies have shown that a majority of children and teens who present with gender dysphoria "grow out of it" (for lack of a better phrase) as they go through puberty, and grow into healthy homosexual adults. and that's also not touching on rapid onset gender dysphoria, which is a relatively new phenomenon that affects teen girls significantly.

i hope this provided some clarification, i'm always interested in having civil discussions about differing viewpoints!

@vvastelander yeah it did! thanks

looking forward to it!