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Hello everyone, its the leftie of the community here!

I just got done watching Contra's new video [Cringe] and I think you'll be interested in it, especially you Scarcella, as she calls out some friends of yours in a way which I personally think is quite... polite... for leftie circles but still with good criticism.

Its fairly long at 1hour 20min but the first half is just a description of "cringe" and its meaning and usage on the internet, as well as a few notable examples.

43:58 is where the real meat of it begins.

As a freethinking space I hope you enjoy this different perspective! 🙂
Also I hope that you're all staying safe and healthy during quarantine! <3

*SPOILERS😘
She discusses her discomfort with a section of the trans community (a thing you and others have talked about) but points out how this could be unhealthy. She then uses this lense to look at other youtubers (Calvin, Rose of Dawn and Blair) and their content. She does this while dressed up as a caricature of the group she feels uncomfortable with.

In my opinion (as a contra fan) her critique is a bit blunt as she doesn't actually suggest a path forward or judgement but I don't think that was the point of the video. I think it was a video meant to say "this exists and this is why and why it might be unhealthy" but not much more than that.

Likewise she doesn't substantiate every comment she makes but the video is already 1:23:18, and so thats already a monstrous task to make as it is.

(the picture is just contra)

Creamegg 5 May 10
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2

Yay! So happy someone posted this! Rose of dawns response was great as well. Hoping Blaire and kalvin do a response

I think CP never means to really make a definitive point so much as share many perspectives. I do think here though she was providing a clear reason why cringe to her is an issue which is that it’s rooted in shame and need to distance oneself from shame. It’s difficult though bc of course I would have shame if people associated me with Jessica yaniv bc our representation of trans in media is so limited and up until recently has been wrongfully associated with predatory behavior

This ^^ 100% agree

My thoughts on the trans but constantly going on about "bad trans people" is twofold. On the one hand they deserve to be pointed out and shamed. I don't actually think that Blair's takedown of Yanniv was "too much" or anything like that and I was among the people happy that she was being called out for what she was.

But at the same time I worry that by the "popular" trans people being so mean we don't actually overcome the transphobia, merely get those of us on top to be somewhat respected while the rest (and even the top) have people calling us tr*nny in our dms if we happen to enter the wrong space. It feels like how all the popular girls at school weren't really empowering themselves or really furthering equality by being so ruthless and their treading on others actually in some ways made it so everyone else but them became even more direspected.

But at the same time I don't think group trumps individual and so nobody ever has to act a certain way cause of a group they happen to also be a part of. Most of the stuff people do is just to have fun/do it, not because they are one way or another.

Basically its all a mess and there is my rant for you

@Creamegg great observations. I feel like part of the denouncing of bad trans or even bad members of whatever group you identify with could be characterized by the “appealing to the oppressor” theory. For instance cis straight people don’t apologize for other cis people that commit crimes. So why does a trans person need to be so public in denouncing this. On the other hand one can argue that optics do matter and that’s why denouncing this is so important bc a smaller group that was marginalized for so long don’t want to have their rights denied or taken away bc of this persons terrible behavior. But like you said is posting a lot about this person helping optics? I don’t know. And also like you said people will still hate on trans even the passing more socially acceptable ones like Blaire white so does it matter? I think it does but maybe there’s a balance between distancing oneself and representing the community that hasn’t been reached yet. There’s also the incentive youtubers have from their fan base to post this type of content that plays a part as well. You are right it is a mess haha and idk anything but thank you for engaging in mutual ranting.

@Treesareawesom couldn't have said it better myself, and its my pleasure 😀

@Treesareawesom I've been thinking and something bothers me about the "appealing to the oppressor" theory. While I don't think its neccessarily wrong in a lot of cases, it demeans the opinions of decenting people in minority groups and paints them as bullies trying to shill and climb up the social ladder. And sure this almost definitely describes some people.

But on the other hand there is a very real probability that they genuinely believe the things they do and are making it essentially for themselves, not their audience or a detached opressor. Its still possible that subconciously its still true but it still feels demeaning "you don't actually believe this, you just want to appeal to the oppressor subconciously". Like whatthefuck.

@Creamegg i like that point. I sometimes notice in the black community when someone mentions maybe we should work on reducing black on black crime in addition to fighting against police brutality the response is almost always you have internalized racism. But I think that really minimizes the points that some are making that do have a level of legitimacy. It seems we kinda want to ignore legitimate problems by calling those that being attention to it “bootlickers of the oppressor.” And that is too reductive and unproductive

@Treesareawesom yeah although it should be said that the solution for black on black crime would be the same as the reduction in most of the problems of the black community, at least in theory, and this is agreed upon by everyone but the most literal racist racists. That is the increase in wealth in the black community and a reduction in racism, but the conservative point is to tell them to do it themselves entrepreneurially and the leftist point is to provide the resources for that to happen.

Thats a bit of a side point but its also why I think the black on black crime rate thing is a bit of a spook cause its used by people to moralise the issue and say "fix your community first" and dodge the ways in which services and material needs to be available to the communities to do so. I mean I suppose there are good points, and my guess there is a load of on the ground charity work directly aiming to reduce voilence, but charity (while good) is still fundamentally like moving a beach with a bucket and spade.

But then what about the people either outside or inside the black community saying it? Well some (especially outside) are just trying to moralise, but others genuinely believe what they're saying but have swallowed the lies/distractions, and others still are just a little clueless of the rest of the context and are genuinely concerned with intracommunity crime and are not aware of the way it is used to distract from progress. I don't think I'd be comfortable labelling every person saying it as bad or internally racist for speaking their mind on the betterment of their communities, even if they are wrong and playing into a bigger narrative.

1

I knew that she had a debate video with Blair, that I didn't watch, so this is the first time I saw any of her video (and I did jump to the 43;00 point then til the end). I WANTED to be....contra.... to her, but she DID make some good points. I've been following Blair (what is with the Vanessa thing?) for a couple of years but I don't watch all of her videos (none of the Jessica Yaniv ones in particular) because I am just not interested in a lot of that content - from Blair or anyone. I will probably go watch a couple of Contra's videos just to get a better idea of her.

I will say this about 'transtrenders': I think they have been a problem, ARE a problem for the community at large, not because they give the transgender community a bad name but because they are bad for the greater society. They present a view that is not helpful to people desperate for information and understanding. My biggest problem with Riley was her POV - leftist ideology - rather than her appearance....which I was letting influence me too much.. I understood that I had the same opinion, and ultimately failure, of Riley. And it made me more aware of the fact that while I was not engaged in any effort to discredit, I agreed with such efforts.

Oh, and I don't care what others think about me so, zero cringe, TODAY. Lots of cringe about myself in the past - but about things I did, rather than who I was. We grow. Hopefully.

Thanks for the video post/link.

No problem 😀
I don't know what the whole Vanessa thing was either... maybe Blair is the shortform of Vanessa and its a passive agreessive joke thing?

3

i enjoy her content and think she does make some good points, but i also don't appreciate her coming for my friends haha.

Thats honestly fair enough, neither would I

I was listening to a podcast where she discusses being cancelled and she mentions in the past she participated in cancelling a lesbian YouTuber and how she felt so bad for that and now I wonder if she meant you lol. Would love to see a video on cancelling from you now haha

@Treesareawesom Yeah contra's cancellation is the biggest boon in the "anti cancel culture" argument imo. Someone who is and always has been a MASSIVE arguer for leftism and trans rights, and would agree with most points that even the wokest person could bring up got cancelled. The reasons why she was cancelled were complex but mainly that certain statements if viewed out of context were genuinely yikesy, but to this day I do feel an air of distrust around contrapoints, even if its just "if we start talking about her the drama is gonna come up again.

But being inside the left when that happened kinda also cemented my opinion that its not "THE LEFT" thats doing this, its a certain wokescoldy faction that defies definitions, because everything that can be attributed to them can be attributed to non-cancelly leftists. Whether its the meanness of Vaush or the cutting edge of transness and trans theory of Contra.

Likewise beyond some hardcore wokescolds it doesn't seem like its any one group, as it seems like most leftists have gone on twitter at one time or another and critisised someone a bit presumtuously and therefore get lumped in with the "wokescold".

All in all twitter is a hellhole and I noped out of there for my own mental health.

0

He gets so much wrong, in such a huge way, I don't know how to start. The whole video is cognitive dissonance, he knows he's autogynephilic, this was just a lengthy, totally self-indulgent act of denial. He doth protest too much.

I mean contrapoints has done quite a bit to highlight the ascientificim of autogynophilia as a theory

@Creamegg I don’t know how it is that I keep commenting on trans videos, I’m a straight woman with limited experience with trans issues (though I dated/lived with a trans man for a couple years). I’m offering my background as full disclosure that I don’t have first hand experience of being trans. I’m going to be honest, though, that I don’t know what you mean by the ascientificism of autogynophilia. How is transgender diagnosis any more scientific? Isn’t it largely identified by feelings?

@no_show Honestly from my knowledge two ways:

1 Theory: AGP is largely based off a overly pathologising of other's state. It categorises trans women as two kinds and essentially describes them as confused/perverted homosexuals or self obsessed heterosexuals. To me this demeans the LGB part of the LGBT community, by equating it to homosexuality+predation. It also entirely ignores the things that actually separate trans people from those groups, like body and presentation.

  1. How the info was gatheredz: If I remember correctly was Blanchart essentially just slept with a load of Trans Women and psychoanalysing them (note: I fact checked this while writing the comment and its not true but what is true is that one of the biggest supporting pieces of the theory was a methodology which was this).

I'm gonna admit I'm no expert on Blanchart's theory, but to me its like the namecalling that used to happen that women were hysteric that was used by men to suppress them, a completely outside view of how the group works built to do the thing is carries out.

Here you go:

@Creamegg Thanks for the video. Given I'm one of those 'find a transwoman that transitioned decades ago and ask her about her experiences' examples - I have a pretty deep set of experiences. And Blanchard is an idiot - with tenure probably...

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