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Should communism be as rejected and repudiated as nazism/fascism is? I was talking to a communist friend today, and I asked for good examples of socialists experiments that brought good outcomes, and she said "Cuba" (?). When I showed all the visible data of low productivity and lack of civil rights in that country, her response was that capitalists and socialists value different things, and that the democracy they support is a completely different kind of democracy. That got me thinking, because a fascist can also argue that they support a very different "democracy", which has nothing to do with the classical liberal one (what in our language is a f*cking dictatorship and not democracy). But what are your thoughts on this issue? Let me know in the comments section below.

Cecilia 4 Aug 26
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0

I'm not the kind of guy or woman, that would actually be knocking any form of government just because it's government, but, yeah I would say that of all of the different forms of government that it is this communism that is actually the best form, I say that with all confidence, what I actually think however is that it is really good probably the best but as for will it actually produce the best results, let me put it like this, no, probably not for a society that isn't accepting of communism. But I think it's a great idea, and here's why, because with communism the goal is to be functioning the best way possible, it's not better because it controls people, but it's better because it is basing your real worth by just what you already have, which I think is the way that it should be. Other governments, they make their government to represent their country as a whole, communism is just about having the government to be functioning, so I would think if not even just for that, that's probably a real indicator of how well it would work. Next I'd say a dictorien society, that's next best and then it's democracy. Democracy is good and all, it works, but it's because it's decided and based what people and the majority of people, that makes it so bad.

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The only criteria I use for an acceptable form of government is the adherence to individual liberty. Absent that no form of government is 'good'.

Me too!

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personally not a fan of communism. Cuba is a shit show. look up JC whos friends with Blaire white. He literally came from Cuba and hates it. He loves the US

I'm also from latin america and love the US. We latinos have to stop putting the blame of everything on developed countries and start doing what you guys do to succed as a country (aka freedom and rule of law).

1

I think there are aspects of communism that need to be rejected because they are in direct opposition to democratic principles. But I don't think it's helpful to reject it entirely. For example, people who support it these days tend to use terms like "democratic socialism" or even "Christian socialism", etc to imply that they don't support authoritarianism or lawlessness/repression. So debating and conceptualizing is a better approach, I think.

gHAB87 Level 5 Aug 26, 2020

When I say "communism" I'm meaning the political ideology that claims history is defined by a class struggle, in which the collectives are driven by their economic status and the individual is only defined by the group/class they happen to be in. The ideology that argues that contracts that envolve profit are expropriation and theft. That's what I'm referring to.

I see what you mean. In that case, the ideology has already been rejected and illegalized. There is no democratic country in which you can confiscate private property (unless in some cases like bankruptcy), force people to choose certain jobs, neglect the rule of law, etc. So I don't see any need to outlaw socialism entirely by only considering the worst aspects of it. Fascism, for example, is not just socialism, it is socialism + racism/bigotry. Sure there are aspects of socialism that provide a fertile ground for authoritarian tendencies and for disregarding the rule of law. However, there are modern interpretations of socialism that work well for some communities like Amish and Bruderhof communities because of their unique belief systems. So having an over generalised ban might have a negative and unfair impact on them.

@gHAB87 I'm not for banning any Idea actually, but culturally the Idea of socialism (big government that owns the means of production) is becoming less and less rejected as time goes by, and It is scary, you know? Anti-individualism and anti free market policies get more and more supported by the general public. This makes me sad because I live in a country with not much freedom and respect for property and private contracts, and its not good, I wish for the USA to keep being a great country with a lot of oportunities, and it sure won't happen with a big government.

2

in order to make their ideas about socialism / communism "work" people like your friend have to resort to re-defining certain words.
BTW, Nazism is socialism and socialism is a bridge to communism. Fascism is more of a tactic of violent deterrence than it is a political ideology.
Fascism is what authoritarian regimes use to keep their people compliant - they won't admit it but they operate on the belief that it is better to be feared than it is to be loved where political leadership is concerned.
There is an enormous gap between what people like your friend imagine Socialism in the abstract, to be and what Socialism is in the reality of Nations like Cuba, Venezuela, Congo, N Korea, China...

iThink Level 9 Aug 26, 2020

I actually think socialism is already dehumanizing in teory, since it treats people as part of a class and not as a thinking human being with rights. But yeah, in practice is even worse.

@CharliePrime The only known antidote to Communism / Socialism is brave men with rifles who are not afraid to use them. We in USA at least since the end of WWII are baptized in the blood of the men who went literally into violent battle and died for our way of life - liberty. Freedom is NOT free!

1

I would say authoritarianism should be. It has communist, neoliberal, and fascist flavors, all bad enough to outlaw. As for socialism in the absence of authoritarianism, it has a positive moral quality compared to the evil of fascism and the seeming neutrality of liberalism.

But the real question of socialism is that all the practical implementations were violent. And socialism (marxist at least) already in theory despise individual rights, since they see the world through the lens of class struggle. Democracy and individual rights have always been very tied to each other. The socialist democracy tried under Lenin was the closest of the Ideal. The soviets (working class unions that made the various decisions) had constant elections for leaders, and majority choice governed decision making in the various factories or local policy/administration. However If someone spoke against the decisions taken, nothing secured this person of not being killed, tortured, arrested, etc, and also It was not a choice to participate or not in this soviets. That's what I mean with lack of individual rights.

How does socialism manage to have a positive equal? It is involuntary redistribution. This isn't charitable giving or voluntary sharing. It is another entity telling you how much will be taken from your family to support others.

Communalism is CERTAINLY a positive good. Individuals and families voluntarily living together, sharing their resources, and providing mutual aid is a wonderful thing.

Socialism is not that nor does it pretend to be that. In fact, even in a country like Norway it is the middle income families and lower middle income families who struggle with socialism just like in the US. In all socialist countries the average person does with less while bureaucrats do with more.

This is what happens ALWAYS with governments. When you must force your ideals on others you lose the soul of that idea and its a downhill slide into authoritarianism.

@ThomasinaPaine couldn't agree more!

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