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Some days ago a friend of mine came to me asking If I'm a radical feminist
I answered "no, why?", And she said its because she noticed that I had retwitted a JK Rowling tweet, that one when she argued that biological sex exists.... That got me really thinking because it says a lot about the world we live in, I mean, isn't it Crazy that to agree with something so obvious and evidence based is enough to put you into a cathegory of "radical"?
Then she and I spend some time talking about how the LGBTQ moviment is becoming selective in regards to who they stand by...
It has become a toxic environment for lesbians especifically.

Cecilia 4 July 30
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2

As a lesbian myself... yeah. It's hard. I'm 19 and I've essentially just disassociated myself from the LGBT community because of how toxic, cult-like and feelings-based it has become. I literally get more death and r"pe threats from the community than actual homophobes and that's scary.

That's really sad... We are starting to be considered an "opressor" lol

2

its crazy that its considered radical ANYTHING to speak about science

0

I know I might get slammed for saying this, but here's my honest opinion.

People don't say "biological sex exists" unless they're making a statement about trans people. The statement itself isn't "transphobic," but it can potentially be an opener for more transphobic discussion.

I also have to point out that trans people DO NOT argue that biological sex is not real. Every trans person will agree that chromosomes are real. The biological sex argument is a strawman in the first place.

I don't say this to make light of the real struggles of women and lesbians. So, I hope nobody assumes that from my words.

My thing is not even with "biological sex does not exist", because you are right, is a minority who really think that way
But you will agree with me that a great portion of trans activists downplay the importance of biological sex when talking about gender
And that is a problem because sex-based differences have to be considered.

There is zero evidence that gender is completely independent of sex. Your brain tells your sex glands to produce hormones, which greatly affect a lot of things, but those hormones in turn affect your brain. I believe a lot of people have simply conflated gender with personality. Sure, society does play a role in the perception of masculinity or femininity, but so too does biology, and at a much larger percentage. That's why transgenderism used to be, correctly in my estimation, considered a mental disorder. Again, gender is not independent of sex, and if sex exists then you can't just choose your gender on a whim, it's got biological foundations. And sex does exist, as you agreed.

@Cecilia Speaking in vague terms, of course I can agree with that. But my opinions on specific issues may vary.

@zlane42 I don't disagree with you. If I said something that made you think I believe "gender is completely independent of sex," then that's my mistake. I don't hold that belief. The things are very obviously related.

I also 100% agree with you that you can't choose gender on a whim. If that were the case, I would not have chosen to be transgender. It's not an easy path to take!

As to whether transgenderism is a mental disorder or not, I honestly don't know. I'm not a doctor. My personal understanding is that it would either have to be a mental disorder or a physical medical condition. I prefer the latter, but my preferences don't really determine the facts of things.

@RavenMStark I didn't mean to make it sound as if I was assuming you were saying anything against what I said. I was just stating things as I understand them scientifically. I'm not a doctor but I am a scientist, so that's how I think about things. My point was that people making the "there is no such thing as biological sex" argument are in my opinion only making that argument because they can't scientifically explain away biology's role in gender. It's a big problem for their argument so instead they try to claim biological sex isn't real.

@zlane42 I see. I don't know who is making the argument that "biological sex isn't real" in the first place. That's MY point. I think it's a strawman.

If any trans people are making that argument (I am not aware of them, but I also don't use most social media, etc), I'm going to assume they're young and/or misinformed.

Being trans actually relies ON biological sex being a real thing. Otherwise, I wouldn't have to transition at all.

@zlane42 y'all with all authority there
"Doctor", "scientist", im Just a high school student lol

@zlane42, @RavenMStark I think our point is the downplaying of biological differences
For exemple when people allow a trans woman to compete with a cis woman in a sport
They are ignoring that the trans woman is biologicaly male, and thus they are ignoring that one have advantage, because we all know males have different bone structures etc

@Cecilia Thank you for the example. Real examples help me understand and make relevant comments.

Trans people in sports is a hard topic. Even I don't know what the best answer is. My two best solutions are:

  1. Making sports leagues that are based on skill levels and/or body sizes rather than gender
  2. Making trans sports leagues - we may be starting to have enough trans people now for that to be a viable option

I think it's true that it's not fair to cis women to have trans women participating in the same sports leagues. Though, I waffle a bit when I think about the fact that trans women lose muscle mass (due to hormone replacement therapy)... but there is still an unfair size advantage. All of those things need to be realistically considered.

So, on that one, I'll agree with you that trans activists tend to downplay the importance of biological sex. Do you have more examples? I think biological sex is only really relevant in certain scenarios and not all.

@RavenMStark I think the second option is good.
Another issue that is really hard to figure out is the prisons
Males can use the right of self ID to harm women in prison, but at the same time if trans women stay with the guys, shit is going to happen too
and one example that is annoying about this downplaying of biological sex, is when people use terms like "female penis" or "male vagina"
It doesn't make sense because penis is a male body part and vagina is a female body part

@Cecilia @RavenMStark Instead of downplaying the importance of biology why don't we downplay the importance of gender? Your gender doesn't define you, nor should it, any more than your race does. What defines you is your personality, and like I said earlier, I think a lot of times, the trans movement as a "fad" (not saying all trans people are doing it because it's popular but I think the fact that's it's popular has brought more trans people out) is conflating gender with personality.

Instead the trans activist movement should've been promoting the downplaying of gender roles. If that was the case then there would be no need to transition to another gender at all because one gender wouldn't really be that much different than the other. That's one of the trans movement's biggest logical inconsistencies: they don't believe gender roles are important but once coming out as trans, they pick one or another on most occasions (what I mean is actually hard to put into words).

My point is, gender isn't really that important. There's a quantum physics concept that you don't know the properties of an electron until you observe it. The electron is in two states at once until you observe it, at which point it's wave function (the equation that defines it) collapses and it takes on either property A or property B. I believe gender is akin to that. No one is 100% masculine or 100% feminine but if you're 51% masculine and 49% feminine, your gender collapses into being male. Gender isn't a spectrum but masculinity and femininity are, and that's just part of your personality, not your gender. Gender is heavily dependent on biological , and biological is important in some cases (like sports) but not in an everyday interaction with someone (exception of spouses because women and men communicate very differently and emote very differently, a product of their biology). So if isn't important in your everyday relationships, then why is gender? I believe in a world where your personality is your cornerstone, not your identity group.

@RavenMStark There are plenty of people making the "no such thing as biological differences between men and women" argument. I understand that if I come up with an example of one person who thinks that, that you could just say "well that's one person it's not the popular belief". There's two problems with that argument, if you were to make it. 1 being, how many instances must I show you before it stops being "just one person" and it starts being a popular opinion. 2 being the biggest cultural/political crisis we have in the US right now is the left NOT shutting up their radicals and casting them out like the right did with the actual white nationalists decades ago. Do they exist? Yes. Does anyone in the mainstream listen to them? NO! Do radical leftists exist? Yes. Is the mainstream listening to them? Yes, because the majority left is scared of them because the majority left does care about being moral, the radical left is using that against them: "you think biology is real, well you're a bigot and transphobe." I mean that doesn't need evidence, people are getting canceled left and right for "bigoted" opinions, bigoted in the sense that they disagree with a pretty radical opposition. So back to number 2, even if it's not a popular opinion, the mainstream is not shutting it down but instead allowing it to dictate decisions for fear of being called an 'ism' or a 'phobic'. The left does care about being moral, now where they get their morals is a mystery to me seeing as how most of them aren't religious, but that's a very different and very intense conversation I don't care to have here, but I'll take their word for it. They do care about being good people, perhaps too much, which is their weakness as shown by our current cultural climate. I mean, the tampon brand Always took the symbol for female off of their packaging because a trans activist pitched a fit. Why couldn't the tampon brand just say "no because only women can have periods"? They would've been canceled, that's why. And this is back to @Cecilia 's main point: we have to stop pandering to radical nonsensical opinions just because they seem like they're coming from a good place or for fear of being called a bigot in some form or another. Abolishing police is another example. The underlying premise is false but if it were true, getting rid of the police??? That's insanely radical but if you disagree with it you're a racist. People have to start standing back up for the right to believe something. Companies have to quit firing people based on their personal beliefs and twitter likes (actually happened, a guy got fired for liking some tweets) so that people can start to stand again. Companies have to quit pandering to activists because they want to look good. Activism has a role, but my opinion is that millennials (I am one too) don't have a civil rights cause to fight for like MLK or Women's suffrage, and the leftist types feel they have no purpose in life because they have no cause to fight for in which they can feel morally important, so instead they're making causes up and pitching fits about them to virtue signal. You can disagree with that but I think that's a fair general assessment of our political and cultural climate. MLK didn't need microaggressions, they were dealing with actual aggressions. MLK wasn't fighting for separated safe spaces, he was fighting for the right to use all spaces. If we actually had civil rights problems in the US, we wouldn't need the existence of microaggressions (or ideas like white privilege that no one can put a finger on) in order to highlight them. Instead, why haven't we focused on coming up with insanely innovative solutions to preserve natural resources or to solve homelessness? Just think, if any number of these social justice institutions, like diversity equity and inclusion departments at universities which have spent billions of dollars with nothing to show for it and which are totally unneeded in my opinion, if any of these SJW institutions put their efforts towards innovating solutions to real world problems, where would we be? Instead we fire the guy who might be most likely to innovate something because he thinks gender is binary. Instead we create safe spaces for people whose presidential candidate didn't get elected. Instead we pay people to come and talk about microaggressions and white frigility at universities. Instead we're worried about whether or not penises are male or female. Ok, sorry that turned into a rant but I do feel better haha. As always and as shouldn't need to be said, please feel free to disagree, I actually love talking to people with whom I disagree (and we may not even disagree on much at all) which is why I'm responding so much. I do care about people, I just think some things we're doing have gone a little too far and that we need to re-focus our efforts as a culture. And I'm not putting any of this on you personally Raven. I've actually heard that most mainstream trans people just want to be left alone to their own devices and not in the spotlight of national attention all the time. That most of them don't care about female symbols on tampon brands. But that's back to my aforementioned number 2 point which got me ranting haha.

@zlane42 Man, you have just put into words what I have always thought about social justice
I don't know about you, but I personally think justice is about resolving conflicts between individuals over scarce resources, so the concept itself of social justice is non-sense, because is a colectivist notion of justice. As you said, the real civil rights struggle are historically about wanting equality under the law, It used to be about actual, measureble, objetictive privileges. The current civil rights moviments in the west are about feelings and inequality of material well being, in which the explanation is always a vague concept like "structural racism", "patriarchy", "islamophobia" etc and with no need for evidence or acceptance for other more detailed and practical explanations and solutions. Its seems to be that the point is really to create division among society, hatred and resentment. It makes me really sad.

@Cecilia yep. You understand it as I do. No one wants to address issues with nuance. And sadly it makes it really hard when an important issue isn’t anyone else’s fault. In my opinion, the “systemic racism”, while firstly not being racist, is more of a cultural problem than a systemic one. And for people who care about this thing and care about lifting up all Americans, I think it’s a hard pill to swallow because it means you can’t do as much as you’d like to fix it, even if you are part of the black community. It’s the adoption of personal responsibility on a mass scale that fixes these things I think, because if someone bears no responsibility even if systemic oppression exists, what makes us thing they will all of a sudden adopt responsibility once the system is fixed? Getting people to adopt responsibility for their own lives is not a rewarding cause to champion, which is what millennials are looking for.

@zlane42 I agree.

1

Yes this is so crazy. I mean if I was really biologically female, why would I wish for a DNA resequencing? I don't care if you want to pretend science matters or not, but then you are just as ignorant as someone who still believes the earth is flat. Chromosomes matter even if most of us haven't had ours tested for. If they didn't matter we would all look the same as males, and females.

4

Yes, saying women are adult human females and biology exists is now hate speech. Imagine people saying the Earth is round being labeled "haters" and removed from social media.

This is insane.

Exactly! We are in a time where reason and evidence is 100% an optional thing
Is perfectly okay to ignore them both if it makes some people happy and confortable
If this is not a sign of a decaying society, I don't know what it is

@Cecilia you've got to brush up on your postmodernism and critical theory: science as we know it was created by white men for the perpetuation of white supremacy (white supremacy as it has been redefined by the postmodernists). So whatever our science tells us might not be true because it doesn't take into account "other ways of knowing" from other cultures. So yes, science is not only optional but it's better if you avoid it. It's really funny that it used to be the religious conservatives who were the "science deniers", now science is racist so we must deny it, or so the radical-but-mainstream left says. I agree with you and it's really sad, our culture and way of life is dwindling and we're devolving back to tribalism.

@zlane42 postmodernism seems to be a mix of cultural relativism, in the sense that all beliefs are right if they are backed by one people's culture, and to say a way of living is irracional and uncivil is racist and xenophobic, and the marxist idea of class struggle and colectivism. Is the dehumanizing Idea that you are your group identity and that makes you either opressor or opressed and you as individual can do nothing about it.

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