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Ok, This s doesn't belong on this group but does anyone else think that capitalism created feminism by diminishing the role of the upper class women? For most of human history upper class women's role was to manage the running of the household and before the technological boom caused by capitalism that entailed managing a near Army of servants, making sure they did their jobs, hiring and firing, and making decisions so the house ran smoothly. Then technology comes around and cuts the need for the amount of servants to one or two she has a lot of time on her hands and her authority in the house is gone. Feminism has always been the realm of the upper class but maybe this is where it gets started. It's just a theory.

Shiosakai 6 Sep 16
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ohhhh thats a very interesting theory! what's everyone else think?

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That is, I'm not gonna lie, a very intriguing topic, point, what that was. Probably, definitely debate worth, I'd say. I mean, you know not trying to speculate about you perse, but you know I know really why yo would ask such a question, is it safe for me to assume then that it's because not just that you are male but that because, because, you are not female, because I would understand that, which makes this even more interesting to get to the bottom to. Short answer, what was that, you said something, wait so it's a question about women, yes, I don't know, whatever the answer was, yes, yes to the question. That is pretty interesting right?

Just, just a heads up, if or once just once you step into the world of girls this question indeed becomes relevant, and the answer is yes. That alone, should explain a lot more than I could possibly ever. Although, yes, if there's a reason to ask that, then there's a reason to answer it, or I'm not a female blooded woman, so here it is, as best as I can do, because you know, I am a woman and I would probably know this, so thank you for asking. I can tell you, the answer is yes, but, it's more harder to explain to you than that, what I mean is, I would think if you were anything else than a man, I could tell you that, but that's what makes it just so much harder for me to just be telling you, if it was a girl, like, a girl asking because she's not upper class and would happen to see that upper class women might be something else who she would happen to even possibly get the chance to ask this specific question to them about all women, then I not only could answer that, it, I mean it right there, but it would be so much easier too, just because it would be that girl. You know why, because it wouldn't just be, be a theory, she would have to believe whatever I told her is the answer then. That's for starters, that's like dipping your toe into the waters of being female. I'm not even started yet so I apologize for that.

I'm sure that now that you've for whatever reason, whatever reason, that you come here now to ask this question that you're I'd say at least probably more surprised by the answer than you did thought would be by that, I imagine so, sorry for that. You are on the right track though however, at least in the way that you're going about trying to think about this. But it's not just capitalism, capitalism is like, not the cause, it's the thought of the idea that happen to set it all in motion, if that makes sense. This was naturally born to happen in other words, just because women, I'm sure you get the idea. It's like what I've tried to say about my other post on this group about girl crushes, if you want more of a specific answer then goe read that. Real women, and real women who are feminist, are like not two different things but more like two different species, and not to mention, but, the idea of a real women being a real women, is like trying to say you know the answer to life, because you wouldn't know that answer even if you knew it yourself if you did, real women, I don't know how to say it, but in technical terms they are actually an impossibility which also does make answering this so that much harder to do, you have to be like a real woman, just in order to both get it and just simply possibly even asking that specific question about women the thing you're, asking about. I know that's a bitch right, you know not trying to say real women are bitches, but hey all bitch are real women, that's at least good enough for me to give you a real answer, and because fuck bitches too, hahaa.

You know, not only am I trying to answer your question, but you should probably realize this, like right now, that, if you haven't already, I'm not just thinking about it, this has already been something, like specifically I could seen myself thinking, and guess what, I did too, just to let you know like a real person, I did too. Like it was like one of the things you think being female, you think it, but you see it, maybe you never think it, but I could definitely tell you for sure, just in the case that yo probably just for instance became a women, it's gonna be both the first thing you see and possibly the first thing you think too, just to yourself, hope you got that. It's like you can feel the capitalism suppressing women, it's fucking ridiculous. Oh hey, good question, I'm glad you asked, wipes nose with finger. I mean, yeah, so think about it, the whole idea, of, feminism is that it's especially women who feel suppressed, not only that but also oppressed, get it, the idea of being feminist and capitalism are like two parallel worlds with the big bang the thing connecting them, of course, of course this would be, a very indeed necessary question to ask, whether being a woman or not. However, it's not capitalism's fault that it might have been what either caused feminism or that it was the thing that brought feminism into a world that just happened to be half full of women, it's because of women, don't get it wrong, it's because of women, namely that, it's how women are that would necessarily make Capitalism such a bad thing to feminism, at least that part is, not hard to understand. Men, won't, ever just be the ones to get it, they can't be, for you to be a man, you have to believe in capitalism, also, you have to be the the one, excuse me, the one, to be participating in it in order to just be a man that's good at knowing capitalism, so to men, they won't get it, or ever think it, they won't ever be the ones to feel the effects of capitalism. That's, not, to say that it doesn't effect them, but they're men. And for women, it is true, because it would be, that women get this sort of shit, but necessarily that all women, would get it, use this analogy if you want, you have to be a real woman, in order to understand capitalism, and if you weren't because you weren't a real woman the, you would ever even get to know what capitalism is. Does that paint, a good picture to you?

I look at it this way. I start with a question. "If women have been suppressed and oppressed for millions of years since we made the leap from hominid to human, why did it take until the late 1800s in for women to form an effective counter to mistreatment? The answer is survival. No women ever complained of inequality while seeing their brothers shipped off to war. That's how you gained wealth from the stone age until the industrial revolution. By conquest. Capitalism was a system that created wealth from human creation. Anyone who tells you differently is ignorant or lying. And with that creation comes destruction. Feminsm could only rise in a world in which you had the wealth and leisure time and freedom they provide. In the 1800s that was a luxury of the upper class by the 60s it had trickled down to the middle class. If that's not convincing enough look at the societies that don't have a history of Capitalism. There is little to no feminist presence. Back in the 60s feminst embraced Marxism and it's anti capitalism propaganda but with it they would be like Bangladesh.

@Shiosakai Oh I got just the thing for you to think about. So, what you said, it's hard to feel inadequate when your brothers are being shipped to war. You might not have heard this, there's game called Metroid and it's character is woman inside of a suit, she travels the stars being a bounty hunter, everyone knows this girl's image now is technically the same just as feminists wished they could all be, alright so, when the game first came out, no one even, knew, who this person was, the people that even made her just made her as a joke and then ran with it, funny huuuhh, and now no one doesn't know about this awesome iconic girl just doing the most uncoomon girl things that you can't even image a girl like her like feminists would be doing at all, you even didn't find out that it even was a chic until she took off her helmet at the end of the game, what does this, or ask yourself, how should this men anything for that girl, on one hand she's sexualized now when she took off her helmet and on the other feminists only just think she is just a baddass woman, like even when they don't know who she is or what that girl ever does in the game, it means, this, have you ever had to be a girl having to take a piss behind a rock when there's still a bunch of these little alien critters crawling everywhere and you just slaughtered their whole entire family, when, you are just a girl in a suit lost among the stars of the galaxy and specifically your job now is to exterminate all the aliens on the planet when fucking know that it's not like you being a girl matters, especially when as soon as you walk into the next room you know, being that girl, you know that it's not like there's not going to be just another alien in there that i about to try kill you, again. When you are that girl trying to take that piss, let me tell you what you're not going to be thinking about, being a girl having to take a piss behind a rock, when there's still a bunch of these little alien critters crawling everywhere and you just slaughtered their whole entire family, when, you are just a girl in a suit lost among the stars of the galaxy and specifically your job now is to exterminate all the aliens on the planet when fucking know that it's not like you being a girl matters, especially when as soon as you walk into the next room you know, being that girl, you know that it's not like there's not going to be just another alien in there that i about to try kill you, again. Does that prove a point, or now doesn't it? I wonder what girls would be thinking about having to be that girl, that's what I'm wondering.

I agree, everything you just said, it kind of is dumb, but I have to also say that, it was also not so bad a thing, how it happened was completely horrible yeah, but I think what feminists really needed was not, just to, be, treated as equals like in other places, it was simply to be able to know that they could be, which I would think that maybe in this time they've spent running around talking about equal rights, that maybe, that's really all they needed, if not for girls, but just still just for girls though, it can still turn into something good, that's like the real problem now, it's no longer is it is it to be a girl or not it's how can I be that being the girl who is a great girl and is still that even with and alongside capitalism too. The problem, you see, it's that you'd had have to have already been a girl and feminist to know that, not just in order to know that now, you had to have been a girl to know that, way before, ever claiming to be a feminist for real is ever actually being a girl too, like what one girl would be thinking about some other girls who would happen to be feminists, they had to be who knows that themselves just to be able to tell that and know it too. What I'm saying here, yes, I'm saying here. It was probably due like you had just said because cause of capitalism. That's what I meant.

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Sounds like a possible side-effect. The truly upper-class or 1% started marrying their kids off to well off industrialists to "save the castle." Money shifted from a ruling class to industrialists. They say revolution is usually started by the middle-class but I'm not sure in this case. The feminist movement was a social revolution. I'd also look at industrialization and the exodus from rural to urban. Women went from working in a rural environment to living in urban tenements. Interesting subject.

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