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My take on #DefundThePolice What do we think? Should we defund or defend the police?

ariellescarcella 7 Sep 5
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Yeah, and I can tell being a public authority is much different than being someone's personal case worker, the reason that I would know that case workers would be good if they were actually good at it, it was that that's how that I know that because my case worker I've had, and having had plenty of them, when the case worker thinks acting like a person who only wants to follow the law, you can't help patients like that, especially mentally ill patients, but here's the other thing that I would be saying about it too, that if cops were not just cops and took their job seriously besides just always being just always being the one on the right side of the law all of the time, then they could easily compensate for what even a good decent case worker could accomplish, I would say so, I'm a patient, but have I actually accomplished what a person with a real disorder can do if they changed a person of the law's mind over just being a decent good case worker because people, no, I haven't, not yet anyways, so, I just say shame on both their houses.

0

I think that if, only one big ass if, we did some defunding, then it might could do some real good if we had some actual decent case workers, I don't think that police are what's responsible for the status of mental health in the country, I mean, when a criminal is thinking about breaking the law, they aren't just going to be thinking about what the law says, that's criminals, but as for mental patients, what potentially makes them dangerous is the fact that because they are mental patients they aren't able to even make sound decisions based on logic, so I guess that also means then they wouldn't be thinking about it either, expect you don't get to having mental disorders just because they are unhealthy or they did happen to already be a mental patient, I don't think it's totally right that you should be saying that mental health is responsible for criminals just if they had case workers, I say this with good reason, I am a person with what others call a mental disorder and I have a case worker, that's why that I would know when there are good case workers things can happen in a good way, it's not just what depends on the mental disorder, I am serious, it being that it can be a real good thing, and I say that because it's seriously not just such a good thing when you have already mentally ill people and normal people who that are case workers and don't know how to do their own jobs working together, alright, that can be a real bad thing, but something like that, it won't effect the mental health of the common decently normal person, that's why that I say that.

It's a human thing, mental health isn't the problem, it's that humans can be stupid and can be doing some really stupid things. It is a thing that humans must believe and think about other humans too, like have some trust, people still do what people do even without mentally ill people.

1

Listen what I'm about to say is not a cliche... Being a Policeman or woman is one of the hardest duties a person can take upon themselves... I know when I watch one of those internet video of a group of protesters attacking and screaming at police officers all I can think about is how scary it must be for them to be in those situations... They are regular normal people just like everybody else and they don't want to lose their lives but are willing to put it on the line day in day out to keep us safe... I thank you police for keeping me safe... Good day... 🙂

1

There are some really unfortunate things being said that are not based in fact, but are treated as such. In reality. cops use force rarely, and such forced is used within legal and ethical constraints. Part of the problem we see is that most people have little idea about the actual standards for interactions between cops and private citizens, such as the duty to comply with LE direction and submit to restraint without fighting - resistance of any kind is unlawful and a predictor of assault on a cop.The number of people killed by cops is small in real numbers, small as a percentage of the US population, and tiny in terms of the number of of violent assaults on cops and private citizens.

Part of the problem is that (as Shiosakai) says below) - few people have any idea of the levels to which some people will descend. Another really bad part is that much of the problems that are dumped on the cops are created by circumstances that are not possible for cops (or the rest of the system) to impact - from shit pre-natal care to racial biases and other social inequities that contribute to people being all fucked up. By the time someone gets to be a police issue, they have gotten through most of their developmental phases as a human and are mostly locked into what they will be.

We also have shit for responses to MH problems and drug abuse, many of which are dual diagnosis problems. Don't talk to MH advocates about how shitty the resources are - they have no idea. Talk to the people who have to deal with the consequences - cops, corrections, prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges. The shit they see is well past cringe worthy. And most folks with obvious MH problems are weird/irritating, not dangerous, but the average person is such a wimp that they call the cops and make a problem where there is not one.

2

I live and grew up in the hood. I've been robbed at gun point. I know two different people who are in prison for double murder. I know how bad people can get. Take away any repercussions...Yeah, fuck that defund the police bullshit.

2

Who do ya want to call, Ghostbusters, no, the Police when you need help!! They're the first ones you ring, so defunding is a real dumb idea!! And every single person will need the Police at least once in their life, their day will come!! I wish you well.

0

The JRE (Joe Rogan Experience) had Jocko Wilink on the podcast talking about this subject. Jocko had some very good ideas (imho) about how to fix some of these problems.

4

I work in a law enforcement related career (not a sworn officer, but I work with them daily). I do NOT believe the police should be defunded. I believe police need MORE funding to create better programs and resources for the communities they serve.

I think it's a great idea to put more money into other programs as well, but the police WILL be the ones responding to mental health crises when they get out of control. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is create mental health options for police departments. (Google "police departments with mental health units" for some ideas of what I'm talking about.) That way, a trained therapist/psychologist can arrive on scene, with the protection and backup of law enforcement, in case things go south.

Imagine a veteran with PTSD who is in crisis and is waving a gun around. Ideally, you could have a trained therapist there to try to intervene, but you also want law enforcement there, in case verbal intervention doesn't work. A therapist can't deploy a taser or take-down method or, in the most dire circumstance, fire a gun to stop a threat to public safety.

great points! ya a few of my friends and two family members are cops

PTSD, mental health, and drug abuse are some of the hardest to deal with as in many of these cases you are not dealing with people not in a rational state of mind. I would certainly like to see if having a therapist on hand would make for safer resolutions to these incidents for everyone involved.

0

I am sure you would find some social workers that would not mind supplementing officers as a lot of what officers do is talk to people. The majority of calls an officer takes really just take communication skills and social workers should be great for that. The problem is the calls that will not be resolved through communication. You have some calls where the subject is going to fight and thats just how it is. I do not believe police are racist. I do not believe the fix is replacing the police with private security, social workers, or military. The challenges of doing the job remain the same, whomever is doing the job. If you are one of the ones that believe we don't need police, well I just don't think we are going to agree on much.

@Anders Its funny you say that but good communication and problem solving skills are what make the best officers IMO. That said you still have some that are gonna make you do it the hard way.

very true. in certain situations that makes sense

3

I believe we should be demilitarizing the police not defending them. over the last 20 years or so we have been seeing a massive increase in local police recieving specalized training such as SWAT, QRF, etc. this puts a lot of police in a certain mind set out on the street that creates some issues. We need to seperate those two entities and get police back into the neighborhoods where the know the people and they can create a connection. But that could just be me.

IMO larger county and state departments should have both, smaller departments would not need one, and any special units they can request from larger departments. In the departments that do have swat teams its a small group, not the whole force that receive the training and equipment.

i don't see that in nyc. but id like to see the statistics behind it all. where money went etc

@ariellescarcella I know our smaller departments here, just call in county or state police when they needed the more advanced services. Then again they are do not operate on the same scale as NYC.

2

No to defunding the police

3

I think it a mistake to use the word "Instead".
I think it better to use the word "in compliment".

As I understand it, "Defund" is a poorly chosen word for "redistribute": put less money into tanks and more money into health professionals working with, not instead, of police.

If you have no faith in mental health professionals, then I get it: you think they are ineffective on their own, why would they be effective in compliment with police.
OTOH, if you do have faith in mental health professionals, then the more the merrier: having them to compliment the police mission can only do more good than them on their own.

Oh, and we should really stop being an "or" society.
We should start embracing "and" more often.

As in we should "defund" AND defend the police.

oh i like that! defund (as in move money around and use it better) thus defending

1

The problem is The Spigot of money that flows in municipalities and institutions from the state and federal government which causes a lot of the problems with policing nowadays

I agree with this to a degree, as grants from state and federal agencies always come with strings, but are needed to put more officers and the equipment they need on the streets.

2

Defend!

Xtra Level 8 Sep 5, 2020
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