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Remember the straight men who protested too much about homosexuality and then studies showed they were more likely to have homophobic impulses?

Kalvin, thou dost protest too much. Not about sexuality but about doubt over transitioning. I am not saying he will detransition. It is human to have doubts that can haunt what you say and do. Even if those doubts only pop up 1% of the time.

I think this is why he is acting the way he is when he literally knows you personally. That book hits too close to home. And when you take your transition and also make it your brand? You gotta double down and make any ounce of doubt go away. If not for his sake, then for the sake of his fans.

Which brings us to his point of TERF baiting and how they flood his comments etc. It probably isn't a good look. Don't wanna get cAnClEd. I think him talking about you using him for your vids was a bit of a Freudian slip in this vein.

Lastly, the guy lacks nuance. Even when he came down to see you his vid was very black and white. Your arguments about how feminism and trans activists intersect is full of nuances and topics that may make him have to self reflect on his misogyny.

The trans community had a Renaissance which they very very very much deserved and now that their beautiful art is on display, it is being critiqued. It's hard to accept criticism when you are used to being the shiny.

This desisted woman and her trans boyfriend agree and stand by you Arielle.

Juxtaposedjoke 2 July 21
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0

ah great point. i hope hes happy, and i think he is but i understand what you mean too. yes a TON of misogyny in the trans community atm

2

Kalvin seems to have some pathological, subconscious disdain for lesbians. He's not consciously hateful towards lesbians. But I get the sense that part of him is tormented by the memory of being seen as a lesbian. I get why that's painful for him, and I don't resent him for that. But this drives him to distance himself from lesbians as much as possible, to the point of antagonizing us. It pisses me off when he treats lesbians shitty for no good reason. He blames lesbians for being "TERFs", weighs in on lesbian issues, and tells Arielle to "shut the fuck up". What kind of man does that?

Arielle's right. The trans community needs to treat lesbians the way they want to be treated.

i agree with you

I agree with you. I was viewed as a lesbian for a few years when I dated a girl/woman in my late teens and early 20s. The memories of the societal abuse haunt me to this day. I was always more attracted to men than women, if I’m even attracted to women at all (it’s complicated), but I doubt I’d ever go back to being with a woman as a woman myself and risk being treated like that. So I do question a lot of trans people, though some are obviously better off and more comfortable. I think society needs to change its perception of women who date other women.

2

I definitely don't think Kalvin is going to end up detransitioning. Not at all. However, he definitely lacks nuance and honestly I find myself disagreeing with him more now than I used to - Not because my opinions have changed on the topics he often discusses, but because his have. Of course, it's not a bad thing at all to watch and listen to those we disagree with; I still enjoy Kalvin's content despite a growing list of disagreements. But, his arguments in the video addressing Arielle were quite questionable, at least some of them.

Berkut Level 2 July 22, 2020
4

I grew up dysphoric and eventually got therapy as an adult. I did not transition and that was the healthiest choice for me.

I think Kalvin, like a lot of people committed to an ideology are afraid of what they'll find if they look at the argument from the other side. It's scary to think that you can be proven wrong when you've built up your entire life around something.

As a spiritual person, atheists used to scare the heck out of me. As a Democrat, Republicans scared the heck out of me. After engaging with both and doing my own research, I maintained my spirituality, but switched political parties because all the craziness made me realize I have more in common with conservatives right now. That's okay. People change. We don't need to be 100% something forever and it's also okay to keep believing things that are important to you.

But in Kalvin's case, his ideology is very tied to his identity and his health, so I can understand why it's harder to separate things and see from Arielle's perspective or read Irreversible Damage.

When I've told TRAs that I did not transition and it was healthier for me, I get told I went through conversion therapy, that my happiness is a lie, that I should "just be a man", that I am trans, but just don't identify as trans, etc. The mental gymnastics they do to try to rope me in or change me, rather than just accept me and others for who we are is alarming for people who claim they are accepting and want everyone to "live their best life".

Someone thinking/living differently than you is okay. It's not a threat. Giving dysphoric people more treatment than gender affirming therapy is not a threat. The threat comes from people wanting to force a way of life on you. The threat comes from people wanting to redefine language and the pillars of society to suit them. The threat comes from manipulating information and statistics for oppression points. Hopefully, they'll mature over time and realize that.

Your comment is actually quite interesting and it reminds me of something I have been thinking about recently. I do blame modern psychology for a lot of the trans-related issues Arielle has discussed, and from reading your comment it did make me think...I reckon we would see a lot less "transtrenders" if psychologists and therapists did their jobs properly. Instead of immediately jumping to the "you're trans" conclusion and trying to accommodate the feelings of the individual, these professionals should be trying to figure out why these young people feel this way.

Usually one conversation with a "trender" is all you need to figure out why they are the way they are. Just one conversation - Hell, just one look at them can show you. They need therapy, but not for the reason they think.

@Berkut As I was venting to a trans friend of mine, I had mentioned that I've never met someone in my position who was a genuinely dysphoric child, hated my genitals, and all that didn't transition. I've met detransitioners, and trans people with various backgrounds and reasons for their transition from AGPs, to dysmorphic and dysphoric people.

She said, "To be honest, there probably aren't a lot of people like you out there and you probably won't meet any. Especially with people being pressured to transition. Most people like you probably put their dysphoria in a box and don't talk about it or end up transitioning and detransitioning."

That made me really sad, because it is lonely. But it's mostly heartbreaking because I feel bad that adequate therapy isn't as easily available anymore.

And these trenders are no exception. As you mentioned, they need therapy, but it's clearly because of their obsession with validation and their extreme delusions.

Insightful comment. Thanks for writing it

@jjjjo0o0ojjjj, @PTElephant I was a genuinely dysphoric child - couldn’t even shower myself properly. Unfortunately I did go through conversion therapy and it involved reframing, learning how to hide my GNC and be ashamed of it (feel disgusting etc) and a type of radical feminism. So it didn’t really help and the gender identity disorder persisted for decades.
I’ve been getting therapy now, but now we’ve gone complete full circle and it’s still not good enough. It’s too affirming. I must admit to enjoy identifying as a type of non-binary and present as androgynous, but the therapists are loathe to try anything else to help.
You have done very well! Transitioning should be a last resort. It should be assumed that people should desist and, although trans people will be met with open arms, it’s not the only option.

@SiennaWaters It's great that you're undoing what the conversion therapy did to you and that you've found a means to treat your GD in a healthy way! There's such a tangled web of GD + people mistreating you/forcing stereotypes to make you "normal" + abuse and it gets really confusing to unravel it all - especially, since it all reinforces itself. The best thing my therapist did was to tell me to "talk to" the different parts of myself and describe how I saw and thought of those parts of me in terms of gender/sex - particularly me as a child. Part of that work was to see how each part of myself wanted to be taken care of and learn how each part felt failed in the past.
I think that was incredibly helpful for me in getting over a lot of the GD and finally fully letting go of this ideal man I had always wanted to be and accepting myself physically. The only thing that still lingers is the body mapping issue of having a phantom phallus sensation that I've had since childhood and accepting my female genitalia, despite having endometriosis and bringing up feelings of resentment and such. Other than that, I'm fully chill with my body/appearance and feel pretty comfortable. I really hope other people can find that level of peace, at least.

5

I like when people disagree with me - it helps me articulate my positions better. However, those disagreements have to be rational. It is one of the reasons I like Arielle and why I support her. Kalvin, radical people will always use the least bit of evidence to support their radicalness - that is NOT a reason to produce the evidence. It is like people demanding safe spaces - they want NO contraryness in their lives because they are too unstable in their thinking.

The fact that Kalvin points to the book, which I have not read but have listened to the entire podcast with Rogan, without understanding ANYTHING about it but the sub-title is telling.

Arielle is a lesbian. She stand up for that community first and foremost and I believe that is appropriate for her. She supports the trans community where and when appropriate unless she feels it harms women/lesbians - I think THAT is appropriate also.

Kalvin is a kid. Sorry, my ageism is showing. EOF.

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