When is someone expressing anti-Semitism?

Question

When is someone expressing anti-Semitism?

A member flagged a recent post, "Hollywood composition of actors and actresses?", for exhibiting what they thought was anti-Semitism and we want to get your thoughts as to where you draw the line. Perhaps include a statement that you think is acceptable discussion and what it would take for it to be considered "hate". The Anti-Defamation League just came out with a report [triblive.com] that says "Anti-Semitic incidents reached record high in America last year". What do you think is going on?

Do you think anti-Semitism is

16 votes ... a growing concern for Jewish people
24 votes ... being used to unjustifiably censor factual claims
2 votes ... not a major concern for Jewish people

#Antisemitism #AntiSemitic

Admin 8

Answer 1

Let them speak. When they act, crush them. When you don't do that, it will grow.

Answer 2

I didn't find that post to be objectionable, and regardless if I may or may not have agreed with the author's post it appeared he tried to stay civil. I draw the line when things get personal, such as using a certain word that starts with a think to describe Jews, you lose the argument/debate as soon as you fall back on personal insults. There are rotten individuals from all walks of life/backgrounds. With that said, society these days is rather quick to cry foul as soon as a little criticism enters the equation, especially when said criticism is directed at Jewish individuals. Far too many have been unjustly shouted down by the "sensitive crowd", and if we are to have fair conversations and debates that sort of thing needs to stop.

Answer 3

“Antisemitism” is a made up word created by the most powerful jewish lobbying group there is, the ADL. Semite actually refers to all people who derive from the Arabic speaking cultures and muslims are semites as well but you rarely ever hear about that.

Answer 4

Free speech should be encouraged always. It gives you enlightenment on ones true perspective. whats worse? knowing what someone truly believes or allowing yourself to be deceived by the masking of their beliefs through censorship.

Answer 5

There was a time when the ADL had a good cause to be or to feel threatened. Today while there is still a lot of "anti Zionist" rhetoric flying about here in the West it lacks several important components. They say that threats - deadly threats can only be taken seriously if they consist of 3 basic elements. 1)Motive 2)opportunity 3)ability to carry out the threat.
Here and today I see where there is definitely motive - hatred of the Jews has permeated time and culture. Here in USA there is a lot of "anti-Zionist" rhetoric spewing from the Libertarian wing of political activism and thought. So the motive is albeit irrational "Jew Hatred" for the sake of hating the Jews.
Where opportunity is concerned (at least here in the West) there seems to be a lack of organization - like the WWII era Nazi Party. "Jew Hates" exist aplenty but they really are very loosely organized at best. Once in a while a singular extremist kook will cut loose and attack others in the name of anti-Zionism but only as a secondary complaint in their manifesto behind "evil bankers/capitalism" and left wing politicians.
And the 3rd element "ability to carry out the threat" is closely related to opportunity. Anti Zionist radicals tend to act out alone and they tend to die in the act of violence themselves. Although bloody violence even in relatively small doses is unacceptable it is NOTHING compared to the genocide against Jews in the early/mid 20th century.
There tends to be strong reaction - I would say over reaction to every little anti Jew utterance these days. While that kind of chatter is reprehensible it really is nothing more than the lunatic ravings of the singular and relatively obscure nut case who is mostly motivated by his own pathological need for attention and infamy..." The expression "any shame for fame" comes to mind.

Conversely Anti-Zionism is a very serious/prescient problem in the Middle East, Northern Africa, and West Asia. I do believe anything we (the West) can do to protect Israel from it's sworn enemies is a good thing. But I also submit this is NOT what the ADL was intended to do - to fight off real military and massive threats against Israel. The Israelis have a well equipped army and special forces to do that.
I am not suggesting the ADL is no longer needed. I am saying that there is an impulse to cry out anti-semitism" where really there is none. Israel in general and Jews in particular are not above reproach. When they say or do things that are clearly objectionable it is good and right to call it out. Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong regardless race, religion...etc.

Answer 6

I saw the original post. Seeing that it was on the RamZPaul group, I ignored it, because that seems to be a group for people who have a white nationalist / anti-Semitic slant. I have no need to be in that group, and respect their free speech, so I moved along.

But yes, the original post does seem to have anti-Semitic undertones. Yes, it is calling out "OscarsSoWhite" and trying to call people hypocrites for not complaining about an over-representation of Jewish people in Hollywood, which on its face is a fair assertion, though there have always been issues with people acting as a race / heritage they are not (Fisher Stevens as an Indian man in Short Circuit, Mickey Rooney as a Japanese man in Breakfast at Tiffany's, Rachel Brosnahan as a very Jewish woman in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, etc). But then the point of the post seemed to be singling out Jewish actors and actresses, and complaining about them.

There are comments likening Jewish people in movies to "propaganda" and some concept someone refers to as being "JQ aware"? You also have a comment calling Jewish people "a group who looks like us but is hostile and considers themselves something else" - a common talking point to try and "other" Jewish people to make them seem un-American and consider them "the enemy" and paint the only real American patriots as straight white Christians.

To @Andyman, yes you are correct, Semite is a much broader term, but in modern lexicon the word "anti-Semitism" has pretty much been redefined to mean prejudice against Jews. The only "Jewish lobbying group" is really pro-Israel groups, which as a Jew myself, I am in full support that you can be against the acts of Israel as a country and not be anti-Semitic - you are only anti-Semitic if you are against Israel because they are Jewish, not because you disapprove of their policy or human rights or something like that.

But yes, anti-Semitism is a huge issue these days, when you have neo-Nazis marching in the streets of Charlottesville and people with Swastika flags at Reopen Rallies.

Answer 7

Zionism is bad . Genetic make up is NOT Bad. It makes more suspicious when people get banned for simply stating that they are over represented in media and banking.

  Zionists are a “Supremacist” idealogy.  They feel the end game is theirs

Answer 8

Labels are judgments. We must use discernment in life, however when we cross our own boundary into an area beyond our own authority, we are inherently infringing on others' rights. We are the first to recognize it when it happens to us, but also tend to overlook it when we ourselves judge.

The "woke" culture is based on judging others; crossing civil boundaries, with the socialist intent of destroying civil society as a way of discrediting whatever system opposes socialism, and promising it will be a civil society when socialism is established.

Anyone who can think understands both the destructiveness of socialism - for which socialists avoid responsibility, and which is necessary to them or we wouldn't accept it as a system, and that there is no guarantee of civil society when they win. History proves that endlessly.

Answer 9

The Antisemitic question will never stop until the Zionists simply ADMIT to the TRUTH. When you ban people (David Icke for example) from showing the truth it makes you look more “FISHY “!!!!

    Just FESS UP

Answer 10

If we stick with facts and discuss facts, the concern with Anti-Semitism should be moot.
Fact: The Zionist state of Israel was NEVER promised to the Jewish people religiously speaking. The state of Israel is not to come until the Messiah appears and the temple is rebuilt. Zionism is a non-religious, modern era ideology at the root of middle eastern problems trying to manipulate biblical revelations in Jewish religious terms through land grabs and regional conflagration.
Fact: Israel has been taking more and more Palestinian occupied land and building illegal Jewish settlements since 1967. The brutal treatment of the Palestinians continues outside the eyes of western media which chooses to look the other way. This is causing hard feelings among both the world's Muslims and Christians who see this as breaking international laws.
Fact: Jews are only 2% yet they are over-represented in many areas of opportunity such as banking/finance, entertainment/movies/music, ivy league school enrollment, University faculty heads, law and publishing to state a few. This inevitably leads others to wonder WTH is going on. I do not believe that Caspian Jews are predisposed to higher intelligence than others.
Fact: Some of the world's wealthiest banking dynasties are Jews, proudly written about in the Jewish encyclopedia. The creation of a fractional reserve loan system allowed to print a nation's money was a Rothschild invention, that put a small group of families in charge of the wealth of Europe. You can see how this caused people to raise the Jewish question.
Hating someone because they are a certain religion, color, etc., is low vibration. Discussing facts may allow for answers, and the "coincidence" argument can be challenged

Answer 11

Having a dislike or hatred for any person or persons just because they are part of a certain group and not because of what that person as an individual did to you personally or because of what they (or their sacred writings) say they plan to do to you is an irrational bias. It's evil.

Thinking a Jew or all Jews are tainted because you believe they run the world's monetary system or Hollywood or whatever it may be is ridiculous and idiotic and yes, ANTISEMITIC. And it isn't any more okay than thinking all blacks are inferior because of the color of their skin or you name it.

Now you might say "then why is it okay to have negative feelings and/or words against Muslims?" It isn't. Not against the individual as a person. But knowing what their sacred writings (the Quran and the Hadith) call for from all Muslims, that should make all non-Muslims very concerned and distrustful of those who claim Islam as their own. But that isn't popular to say. That isn't politically correct. Not anymore than speaking negative of blacks or gays.

Muslims, blacks, and the LGBTQ are all protected groups. You can't speak ill of them. But apparently it's fine to speak ill of Jews (and Christians because they believe in Jesus, who was Jewish).

So what I'm saying is that, though the 1st Ammendment guarantees the freedom of speech, good and reasonable people should be able to treat all others how they themselves would like to be treated, and that includes what we say about others. That changes when a specific person or persons have personally injured you or those you care for. In that case, we should speak specifically against the individual(s) and their personal actions.

A Jew can't help that he/she was born a Jew any more than a black person can help that they were born black or a white person being born white or a redhead born with red hair. We all have to make the best of what we were born as. And no one should have to be ashamed or ill treated because of it.

Anyone who can't follow the golden rule should be shamed and embarrassed and certainly not encouraged. People unwilling to take a stand against a bully are little more than enablers of bullies. And we should all realize how much we hate to be bullied ourselves and determine we won't turn a blind eye and put up with it toward others.

Answer 12

I never joined Facebook , Twitter, or any oft he other on line groups because of the censorship on those sights!!!!
I do not agree with everyone or every opinion, but I am able to make choices for myself!!!!
I am a big boy and can handle bullies and idiots without protection from some administrator!!!!!
If we start stopping people from expressing themselves, I will have to find a new place to discuss my interest and opinions!!!
It has been a good ride so far, let's not ruin it!!!!

Answer 13

The way the pol is setup eliminates to what degree a growing fear of antisemitism is related to the type of article being referenced. The two may be only loosely linked. There are so many anti Jewish forces at work it would be hard to weigh them. Certainly in Europe Jews are fleeing areas with growing Muslim populations. In my own city Jewish people have been murdered on at least two occasions in the last couple decades by right wing extremists. Does the article in question create more right wing extremists? Does Muslim religious texts? I doubt it but who knows.

To be different and successful is probably more dangerous than being different and poor. At least to some extent if terrorism is what you worry about. In Asian countries there is a long history of Chinese merchants being persecute similarly to the Jews in the West. I have no doubt that one reason Israel is hated so much is that it undermines the multi cultural narrative of the lunatic wing of the social justice movement. Israel's success points to the failure of the surround cultures. Perhaps that is the real reason Jews are so hated. The natural tendency for people to find someone to blame for their own inadequacies.

In fairness I find the Jewish religion to be inherently ethnocentric. I see similarities between it and many tribal religions that refer to themselves as "the people". This sets it apart from the other Abrahamic religions which tend to be more ethnically diverse. Again this is going to be a big problem for anyone who believes in multi culturalism or are themselves ethnocentric. You end up with the the social justice movement that is heavily influenced by Marxism and the far right both hating Jews. Marx himself was anti Jewish ironically enough.

I can find many ethnic traits to be critical of in Jews just as I can for any ethnicity. If you are in some sort of cognitive dissonance or denial of the role that genetics and culture plays in human affairs you probably think it is racist to even consider such things. I'm not totally unsympathetic to such a feelings. Stupid or emotionally weak people will be influenced by and focus on negative characteristics and or feel threatened by the idea that all peoples are different and that those differences are a matter of significant interest. The thing is that as Jordan Peterson points out human dignity and value must be independent of not only superficial characteristics but everything but character.

Answer 14

"The belief or behavior hostile toward Jews just because they are Jewish. It may take the form of religious teachings that proclaim the inferiority of Jews, for instance, or political efforts to isolate, oppress, or otherwise injure them. It may also include prejudiced or stereotyped views about Jews."-ADL - I would add "negative" before stereotyped since positive stereotypes, although wrong, are not anti.

I don't see anti-jewish sentiment in the linked post. The Jewish nature of Hollywood is indeed an interesting phenomenon.

I don't think anti-jewish incidents is a worthwhile indicator. Instead look to "hate" crime statistics (not to be confused with love crimes). They are officially kept, and reported. We are up from a low in 2014 but on par with the early 2000s.

According to Wikipedia, there are more Jews in Israel than in the US. Clearly, we can do better.

Answer 15

Jewish practices discourage intermarriage with other ethnicities. It is a slight barrier to integration into the larger community. The perception of the lack of integration real or imagined probably plays a role in anti Jewish sentiment.

Poor education, lack of skills, and ethnic chauvinism played a role in the difficulties the Irish had in integrating into American society. They were generally despised by the general population.

"The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists. And, worst of all, these undesirables were Irish."

[history.com]

Blacks, Jews, Italians, and Irish all have unflattering ethnic epithets that most people know even if they are no longer used. Three of them are associated with "alien" religions. All resisted assimilation into the dominant WASP culture. It doesn't matter if that integration was a real possibility of not.

You don't have to be very different to be despised as many liberals have discovered when trying to deal with modern progressives. The religious wars of Europe and sectarian violence in the Middle East testify to just how small differences between people can lead to extreme prejudice.

The current approach to dealing with prejudice is to use the reverse of traditional propaganda considering ethnicity. Ethnic differences of all types are now to be celebrated. It is actually as stupid as the original prejudicial propaganda. All ethnicities have good and bad characteristics. I don't think the current strategy is actually working. I could be wrong but typically white lies don't have lasting positive effects. Some people may hold to the folk wisdom that if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. I can only say that the later is a better strategy than the former. Constructive critique of ethnic failings would be nice but it always seems to get out of control.

Answer 16

Jews have taken advantage of the holocaust (and probably inflated the numbers) for their own advantage (I’m talking Zionists Jews). Check George Soros and how he took advantage of Holocaust

Answer 17

It is basic human nature to seek what is different about people than what we have in common, as it is also human nature to attack that which we fear or do not understand.
For every wealthy Jew there are many poor ones, for every black criminal person there are many honest black people, for every intelligent white person there is an overwhelming number of stupid ones.
To attack an entire class, race or group of people based on that groups color, religion, sex or sexuality is to display a form of discrimination.
Any sensible person knows that in all walks of life there are good and bad, when calling out the bad target the bad person not the entire group, if you can only attack the group then my friend like it or not you are showing a form of prejudice and prejudice is a very clear sign of ignorance and stupidity both of which are not good character traits.

Answer 18

I’m in agreement with “EnlightenedOne” below ... not that I consider myself “enlightened” especially.
Where in many situations I can see where radical “Anti ...” thought (aka Bigotry) could be actually a problem as in, being used to whip up resentment and physical reaction, in a forum such as this, there should be no need to censor it out ...

On the other hand, there are many different types of people who deliberately put themselves outside the “Social Norm” ... for many different reasons ... Faith, Religion, Social Preference, Thought Processes to mention a few. If these people put themselves “outside” and make it obvious it should come as no surprise when the ever present nascent “mob” is looking for a “Point of Contention” that they should be targeted.

While total integration is “safer”, being, and daring to be “different” ... in ANY way ... is a Personal Choice and Personally fulfilling.
Like anything, there is a “Price” to be paid for being “different” (I have paid this price several times in several different ways as I am “different” in several different ways) If you CHOOSE to be “different” you should be careful about complaining that “not different” people notice.

Religion and Faith ARE a Choice and DO make you “different” ... Just ask ... or observe ... Catholics, Protestants, Born Again Christians, Mormons, Mennonites, Quakers ... and yes Jews (aka. Semites)

Answer 19

My son and daughter-in-law are Jewish. Here in Colorado there's not much overt anti-Semitism. There's a concern about it, but they blame it on Trump.

Answer 20

Yes, you don't have to be very different to be despised, creative, individualist, anything almost from the crowd will mark you. So why spend so much time chasing dragons that that in reality are only windmills. Tolerance, inclusion, multi this and that? All to no avail except human kinds only bankable exponent. War.

Answer 21

We fail to demarcate between German Yiddish-speaking Jews [non-Semitic] and Hebrew-speaking Jews [Semitic].


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