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28 7

Is the banning of WeChat/TicTok a modern day act of war?

I have no love for the Chinese "Great Firewall" that blocks non-Chinese tech firms access to the Chinese market. Prior to 2002, I ran the largest Chinese social network from the US until one day the Chinese government blocked it and 95% of it's members were gone. The only option was to try to sell it to a Chinese competitor but, being blocked, it had no value.

While TicTok, the Chinese-backed short-video sharing community popular by young Americans, will survive as it can be sold to Microsoft/etc as most of the interactions are between fellow Americans, the US ban on WeChat is a game changer as it severs communication BETWEEN countries.

WeChat is a messaging app used almost exclusively by people outside of China (both Chinese diaspora and locals) to communicate with friends and business connections in China. Yes, China had already blocked all US-based social networks so there's parity but now such communication is pushed back to the last millennium - email and phone calls.

As someone who has friends who exclusively use WeChat, I feel the panic as people scramble to find alternatives. This executive order will have a chilling impact far more than most people think. Is it a modern day act of war?

The banning of TikTok/WeChat in the US is...

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Admin 8 Aug 7
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11

China’s “weaponizing” these platforms and applications ARE “An Act of War”.
China’s “weaponizing” Trade IS “An Act of War”.
China’s Theft of Technology, Information and Intellectual Property IS “An Act of War”.
China’s Moves in the Pacific Ocean ARE “Acts of War”.
China’s Pushing Their Dogma in Our Nation, in Our Schools, in Our Media ARE “Acts of War”.
China’s Belt and Road ...
China’s Virus Release ...

Should I continue this list?

You really ask some crazy and biased questions.

If someone is Beating on You for a Few Minutes and shows NO Interest in Stopping, when YOU FINALLY Begin to Punch Back ... Is THAT “An Act of Starting a Fight”?

China has BEEN AT WAR with the USA ... and Most of the World ... for DECADES ...
MOST People have been completely Oblivious ... MANY STILL ARE ...

I hardly see President Trump’s “Kicking China in the Ankle” as being an “Act of War” ...
NO ... IT is Simply an “Act of SELF DEFENSE”.

Re-read my first paragraph to see if I have bias 🙂. As this is a "question of the day" type post, I can't really come out and say "The US and China are escalating the stealth war" can I? People need to dust off their copy of The Art of War to see how to win a war without being in a war.

@Admin
I did read it ... and the rest of it as well ... I understand that you have your reasons to view this in an opposite view of the Question you posed but ...

The Question was still couched in a manner reflecting a bias and the question is what I was addressing ... answering.

I know several Chinese Nationals many who have become US Citizens or are working towards becoming one.
I had a long term relationship with a Chinese National escapee that I assisted in her preparation for her Citizenship Test ... just the studying for it ... and, through her I became an acquaintance of much of the Chinese Enclaves and People of Manhattan, Brooklyn and Cleveland.

Due to my highly inquisitive nature, I had many long conversations in various forms of broken english with a great many people. I came to understand their views and thoughts about China, their Culture and the Government ... and their concerns about what was happening in the USA in reference to China.

Honestly, they are more concerned about the USA’s Future than most US Citizens seem to be.
It seems, that once you’ve Grown Up and Lived under such a Regime, that you tend to pay more attention to signs of it coming to your New Home ...
Much like Ayn Rand’s concerns when she wrote Atlas Shrugged and Foundations.

11

Donald Trump is the only world leader to ever stand up to China, which is winning its war to gain control of the internet - TikTok is just the tip of the iceberg.

One of China’s long term strategies in this war was to develop app’s popular with the American public. That way, any moves by Washington to curb Chinese tech power, would be opposed by American citizens, in effect, ordinary Americans become Beijing’s human shields.

Beijing already controls vast amounts of online infrastructure through Hauwei, the crown jewel of Chinese tech, which was largely built on the theft top secret technology from Nortel Networks, a Canadian tech firm that was using touch screens ten years before the iPhone was invented.

President Trump has been largely successful in his long fight to keep Hauwei out of evolving 5G tech networks in the west. Should the company — which operates on a $100-billion Communist Party credit line — get inside our 5G, Beijing, in effect would control key elements of things like defence and finance.

The company’s CEO, Meng Wanzhou has been under house arrest at one of her mansions in Vancouver for the past two years fighting a US extradition order related to the Iran embargo. In retaliation, two innocent Canadians have been imprisoned without trial in China, and will continue to be held hostage unless Ottawa rejects the US extradition.

This stakes here are way bigger than dancing teenagers eating Tide Pods.

[bloomberg.com]

GeeMac Level 8 Aug 7, 2020

What do you think will be the retaliation by China?

@Admin your guess is as good as mine. China is always clever and always plays the long game. We always forget they aren’t hamstrung by term limits, election funding, legislative gridlock, a hostile media, and constant right/left infighting. Their power is staggering.

President Trump at least recognizes this. The administration needs to keep standing up to Beijing. If, or when, the Chinese replace the US as the world’s top economy, the real turmoil begins.

@GeeMac Good book... "Stealth War"

@Admin
Let them “react”.

Currently, THEY Need US Far More than WE Need Them.
If We react with a Total Trade Embargo ... Throw Out ALL Chinese Nationals ... CLOSE ALL Their Embassies ...
I’m pretty sure that the CCP ... China ... will find they have an acute case of appendicitis.

@Admin great video! Now I have to look for the book. Thanks.

9

We spent how many years worried about "Muh Russia" interfering in US elections and now that we know the Chinese are suddenly its "Muh Freedom of Speech"?

They can fuck off with that outrage nonsense. No one cares that tech companies with social media monopoly ban conservative voices and no one wanted Russian companies to buy up American social media markets. This is because Russia is now more private industry free market and China is still state capitalism only.

It's politics as usual.

8

About god damn time. I have to say, I absolutely love every time we do something that sticks up for America against the theft and abuse perpetrated by China.

The corporate Elite that are so short-sighted and love dealing with Chinese money are driving this country into the ground everytime they deal with this Totalitarian nation. We have this illusion that they are capitalists but it's false. They maskeraid in capitalism but it's one big ponzi scheme and they've always been adversarial but every one with power keeps pretending that they aren't since their bank accounts keep increasing. They flood our markets with counterfeit bullshit and abuse our goodwill. It's about time we do something to get them to stop stealing our information and taking advantage of our flaws.

7

Speaking of war, the Chinese Communist Party operates with impunity in Canada, through a group called the United Front. The Front pressures Chinese Canadians to work for their “true motherland”, and harasses Immigrants who refuse.

My American friends should be grateful they have a President who puts your country first, rather then our starry-eyed 🤩 woke Prime Minister who is on record saying he “admires” the Chinese system

[globalnews.ca]

[nationalpost.com]

GeeMac Level 8 Aug 7, 2020
7

I've done business with China. The people are awesome and the government is a Totalitarian nightmare.

Our government has been kicking the can down the road too long. Trump is fixing the problem...the only way to do it is to make the situation worse before it gets better.

It takes courage to go against the system like this. Lest we forget, politicans who are not favored by the system have the tendency of taking a round to the head. I'm thinking President Lincoln and President Kennedy.

I'm actually scared for Trump.

This Epstein thing is just icing on the cake....the names on that list are people with some serious power.

Tarpon Level 7 Aug 7, 2020

I really hear you with the scared for Trump sentiment. It's not only ok to ridicule your President. It's now not ok to support him. I mean, it's everywhere in MSM. They keep pushing like if Trump gets elected that's literally going to destroy America. The idiocy is that the ones that are screaming the loudest about it are the ones literally burning down our country.😕

@saramarylop3z

The Propaganda is almost a direct mirroring of what Goebel's did for the Nazi's. I should look up the 12 or so types of propaganda and post the list. It's like the DNC and the media are just going down the list.

@Tarpon Normally I'd say that's an exaggeration. But, seriously, there is this huge push to get Biden in and Trump out. I can't tell if Twitter is influencing the MSM, or if the MSM is influencing Twitter anymore. Little to no actual Biden talking (mostly MSM interpreting what he's saying), and non stop negative talk about Trump. I'm unsure at this point if the MSM actually thinks Trump is evil, or if they're just capitalizing on their production of sensationalized news. Either way, from what I watched in the Barr hearing, it's not just the MSM out to grab up some of that "power of Trump hate". It's extremely disturbing

4

An act of war is a fancy way of rationalizing a whole lot of intended evil soon to be released on a whole lot of innocent people.

Those who wish to dominate the dominant groups must destroy all competition, it is a principle upon which the rules of the process are governed.

So...with that in mind, will the effort to block the free transfer of information from one dominant group result in more or less competition?

"...people scramble to find alternatives..."

If "alternatives" are only evil or slightly and temporarily less evil, then I smell a rat.

You always smell a rat.

We spent 4 years investigating the Russian interference in our elections and found almost nothing. It's almost as if it was a distraction from China who we know are somewhat effective at and planning to interfere. It's pretty clearly a case of follow the money. A lot of people got rich off of transferring slave labor and pollution to China in Western nations. They don't want the gravy train stopped. It's reminiscent of another fascist government and the reluctance of the rich and powerful to take the threat seriously.

@wolfhnd

I don't know which people you are speaking about, but there is a way to find fact from fiction.

"We spent 4 years investigating..."

Was there a Court date? Are there Trial Transcripts?

I don't always smell a rat, that is a ridiculous (false) statement. Rat smell is emitted along with the lies told, they are intimately connected.

@Josf-Kelley

There was a Senate trial, and you can read the transcription.

@wolfhnd

So..."we" are people in the Senate? A link to the subject matter you refer to would be useful to those who may want to know what you are referring to.

"We spent 4 years investigating the Russian interference in our elections and found almost nothing."

Is there a named suspect who is accused of something specific, such as "treason" or "trading with the enemy," or are you referring to an ambiguous non-accusation made by unnamed non-accusers who prefer ambiguity just in case they are held to account for their non-accusations of nothing specific?

Also, they are not "our" elections. The process is of, by, and for those in power: a faction.

@Josf-Kelley

I don't think a link to the impeachment proceedings or trial is necessary.

The Senate is set up to be isolated from the people because as you can see from the people's house's actions in the impeachment the people are a mob.

@wolfhnd

Ok, so there are these criminals assembled in a "house," and you are now telling me that "the people are a mob," because of what those criminals do?

So...everyone (except you perhaps) is a Mob, or you and those people in the Senate are exceptional, and therefore not a mob?

I'm going to attempt to put myself in the shoes of a criminal who counterfeits the law and from that viewpoint I will explain the dogma required to pull off the confidence scheme.

We, the criminal mob, must convince our victims that only our special abilities will save our victims from themselves. Our victims must be made to fear each other, and our victims must then be offered two possible solutions to their fearful state that we put them in.

  1. Evil (the mob, themselves, or another mob, another foreign mob, run by the mob)
  2. Lesser Evil (us, our non-mob, we must convince them that we are not a mob, unlike them)

Those are the choices offered to the fearful masses who are made to fear themselves.

If, by chance, some of the people are not fooled, and those people assemble into groups of people who prefer rule of law, those disobedient people will be falsely advertised as The Mob, guilty of mobbing, and guilty of supporting mob like thoughts, and mob like actions.

This is not a discovery, it is a well established fact that matters.

The People's Panel
The Grand Jury in the United States, 1634 - 1941
Richard D. Younger

Page 3

"They proved their effectiveness during the Colonial and Revolutionary periods in helping the colonists resist imperial interference. They provided a similar source of strength against outside pressure in the territories of the western United States, in the subject South following the Civil War, and in Mormon Utah. They frequently proved the only effective weapon against organized crime, malfeasance in office, and corruption in high places.
"But appreciation of the value of grand juries was always greater in times of crisis, and, during periods when threats to individual liberty were less obvious, legal reformers, efficiency experts, and a few who feared government by the people worked diligently to overthrow the institution. Proponents of the system, relying heavily on the democratic nature of the people's panel, on its role as a focal point for the expression of the public needs and the opportunity provided the individual citizen for direct participation in the enforcement of law, fought a losing battle. Opponents of the system leveled charges of inefficiency and tyranny against the panels of citizen investigators and pictured them as outmoded and expensive relics of the past. Charges of "star chamber" and "secret inquisition" helped discredit the institution in the eyes of the American people, and the crusade to abolish the grand jury, under the guise of bringing economy and efficiency to local government, succeeded in many states."

The People (the mob so-called) are as one when The People abide by a simple Rule of Law.

Do unto others as you would have others do to you.

The People can divide into two obvious groups: 1. Law abiding 2. Criminals

Criminals alone tend to be less powerful than criminals who work together sharing the goal of injuring innocent people. Criminals working in an organized manner are known as Organized Criminals: The Mob.

When criminals counterfeit governments, they tend to call those people who abide by the law, the moral people, names that mischaracterize those law abiding people. Criminal Mobs who counterfeit The Law often call The People (who remain lawful) as The Mob, when The People assemble in groups for the purpose of holding to account The Criminal Mobs that counterfeit government.

@Josf-Kelley

What I'm saying is you and perhaps not even you are "moral" enough to live in your utopia.

@wolfhnd

Perhaps you have me mistake with your imagination. I do not delude myself with visions of utopia, as your words may suggest. If your opinion is such that my words describe a utopia, where people are not "moral" enough to live, then the symbols I used failed to convey the intended message to you.

4

The DREAM is gone, for One World......"We are the World"......."Connected we will have no wars" ...Funny as heck, how the 1960's songs lead to 3(456789?) multi billionaires, and Spying made easy, and "No borders" Invasions, And TicToc dancing not worth a thought. Hehehe.....are we having fun, yet, One worlders?

3

Xi Jinping told his Generals recently... to prepare for war.
Who do you think is warmongering?

Chinese President Xi Jinping tells military to prepare for war, boosts defence budget

28/05/2020

The President of China has urged the country's army to prepare for armed combat, claiming the coronavirus pandemic is having a significant impact on national security.

On Tuesday, President Xi Jinping said China must ensure its military is strong because the coronavirus pandemic has had a "profound" effect on the world situation and China's security.

State media China Daily reports Xi instructed the military to gear up combat preparation and conduct battle drills in a flexible manner.

"The armed forces must improve operational capability in each and every aspect," Xi said.

The military must practice carrying out training procedures under COVID-19 precautionary measures, he added.

It's not just preparing though - China has also boosted funding to its armed forces. Last week, China announced it would boost its military budget by 6.6 percent despite the vast economic downturn caused by the pandemic.
Wu Qian, spokesman for the Chinese Defense Ministry, said Beijing's defence budget was appropriate for the times.

"It can be said that the world is not peaceful," Wu said on the sidelines of the National People's Congress last week.

"China's homeland security and overseas interests are also facing some real threats...It is reasonable and necessary that China's defense spending increased moderately and steadily."

The increase in military spending and preparedness comes as China faces increasing criticism from other countries over its handling of the COVID-19 pandemic.

The United States and other countries have accused China of misleading the world about the severity of the outbreak, and there are growing calls for an international inquiry into the origins of the virus.

New Zealand is one of 62 nations backing Australia's call for an independent inquiry into the origins of COVID-19 - but Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says she's "not interested" in placing blame or joining a "witch hunt".

@dd54 We all know what Jacinda is down here... yet like the Canadians and Justin, they keep voting her in.

3

WeChat is used to keep tabs on the Chinese Diaspora and intimidate those living outside China.

3

When China can block US apps, then US can block Chinese apps. It's that simple

Yes, sad but true. Trump should say “... or open your market to us telecom”.

@Admin
NO.
Trump should tell them to Pack Up Their ENTIRE Kit and Kaboodle and GO HOME!!!
When They learn to “Play Fair” and “Get Along” with the rest of the “Kids” we can THINK about letting them back in.

In the meantime, EVERY Chance, EVERY Crack, EVERY Seam that They can EXPLOIT, They WILL EXPLOIT.
I think Isolating ... Shunning ... them is probably the BEST we can do to avoid Outright War.

2

Digital Separation en route to political and physical separation.

The ability to communicate is a core pillar of self-defense;

Those who control your communication control you.

2

The only Soc Media platforms I have used are FB, and you tube if you tube is a social media site and here - the IDW...so I don't know anything about TikTok or WeChat except what I see and hear in "news" programming.
But it leaves me wondering - how many Social Media platforms does the world need - It seems like a crowded niche in the Social Media marketplace. Will it really matter at all if TikTok and WeChat go away? Who would really care except perhaps for those who invested money time and effort in creating them.
I know there are other Soc Media platforms too - Twitter is one and I can't think of others but I'm sure there are at least 3 or 4 more.
Since Trump uses Twitter to circumvent the MSM/Legacy Media I can see its usefulness in that regard...but really - who gives a damn what any celebrity is doing, where she is shopping, what she's doing in Cancun...why would you spend time - invest your time following people like that. go figure.

iThink Level 9 Aug 7, 2020
2

It's not great. It's better to have a consistent and principled approach to these things from day one. It was also very bad when Trump had a Huawei executive arrested for circumventing Iran sanctions that were only in place because we pulled out of the Iran Deal. The worst members of both parties appear to be set on a war with China which would only be disastrous for the world. That being said, I think TikTok and Chinese tech should be avoided.

2

Let's encourage the WeChat users to come to this site.

Would love to... but then China will just block access to it as they did before. They want to have access to read all messages and content shared.

@Admin Valid point, but don't think there's an easy way around that, the Chinese Government is ban happy. If there's something they don't approve of, it will just get banned.

@dd54 Ditto.

1

Yes it is an act of war. A much needed one. While collateral damage is unfortunate China has grown far too strong and is emboldened by our inaction. They are our enemy and the enemy of free people everywhere. While I pray the war remains a cold one China must be confronted, contained and ultimately defeated

1

There is delicate balance between using trade to moderate China's fascist government and pushing them into their traditional hostile isolationism. History tells us that appeasing fascist governments is a bad strategy. The devil is sufficiently complicated that the details of any policy towards China are likely to go wrong. Is banning Chinese social media apps a good move? Doesn't matter they had plenty of warning time to clean them up but they were only interested in power not profit.

@dd54

The CCP is here to stay over the short term. That doesn't mean that everyone in China is happy with the CCP. We need a strategy that weakens the CCP but doesn't alienate the Chinese people. Economic sanctions didn't bring down the Soviet Union, competition did. Unlike Russia the CCP is going to engage in massive military spending regardless of what we do. They can afford it not because we trade with them but because like all competent fascists the CCP allowed capitalism to be their economic muscle. The Soviets did everything they could to suppress economic growth. Trump's strategy is that if the Chinese play fair they will lose. That doesn't mean he is naive enough to think they will play fair. The thing is that eventually the Chinese people will realize that cheating is a short term strategy and their government is an obstacle to bring integrated into a world economic system that requires fair play.

So who is trying to stop Trump from playing the long game? The never Trump elitists in both parties. Their mascot could be John Rockefeller who said competition is evil. For decades they have profited not from productivity but market manipulation. The Banksters, Globalists, and Corporatists love exploiting Chinese slave labor and exporting pollution to China. It keeps the masses calm while they grow richer and more powerful. The Biddens of the world lick up the scraps.

Then you have conservative intellectuals like George Will who live in a prestige bubble. They are as ideologically possessed as the far left which they have found common ground with in their hatred of Trump. The intellectual right is as much a cult as the "social justice" movement. They both have purity tests that destroy anyone who doesn't completely conform. It is very much a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. The same types tried to profit from the Nazis until it was too late. Exhibit A is Prescott Sheldon Bush. They live in a world where the magic of capitalism works without the liberal democracy that gets in the way of profits. Just take a look at our prestigious economists if you want to see how cults work, despite decades of wildly inaccurate forecasts they keep their prestige because it is not a meritocratic but ideological hierarchy.

@dd54 The pieces are indeed in place for the leftists to take control in a possibly bloodless coup. Biden is incapable of leadership, and is not running his campaign. If successful he will not last a year and a faceless operator will hold the highest levels of command in the US. Who he picks as Veep is irrelevant. His election will be either the end of the republic, or the “Fort Sumpter” of CW II.

1

China needs to be pushed back on. We can all agree on that. That said, I don't support this ban as such, because it sets a precedent that the next Democrat president will be all to happy to use to his advantage.

That is one of many risks and a valid point.

In a perfect world you wouldn't ban anything but there is a difference between individual free speech and government propaganda, subversion, and espionage.

1

I think there's simply more to it than meets the eye.

1

So I can still chat with Chinese people on Baidu? It's just a matter of where the servers are and who gets to monitor/censor chats?

1

It may be a spicy take...but it can get...dicey when the government decides what is approved and not approved. Private businesses are different, if your work, parents, even to an extension government provides your phone, then they should be able to approve anything on their phone. But when you get to private citizens, it is the duty of the citizen to due their own research. Also while,it's not government backed, best believe Facebook, Google, Apple, and other big tech is mining as well

1

"While TicTok, the Chinese-backed short-video sharing community popular by young Americans, will survive as it can be sold to Microsoft/etc as most of the interactions are between fellow Americans, the US ban on WeChat is a game changer as it severs communication BETWEEN countries."

This one point that you made is something I keep circling back to whenever I try delving into the issues surrounding these types of bans. "Severed communication between countries". I mean, no matter how I look at it, it just seems wrong.

So, to start, I'd like to say where I'm coming from. I left FB 5 years ago, and only at the end of last year started using select sites for hobbies. My online profiles make up of a majority of strangers and a few family members, some who I've had fun conversations with, others that I barely interact with. In the last 5 years, I avoided and did not participate in any political conversations. Until COVID.

So, because of COVID my normal news watching wasn't enough. I took to social media and visited Twitter and Trumps page for the first time. (Um... I don't know if anyone could have prepared me for the comments sections.) Many more events unfolded that led me to Slug.

I'm unsure how many people are coming from a similar place. But, it's like I've been living under an "internet rock" for the last 5 years. Judge that as you may, but I just wanted to be honest.

Honestly, I didn't really see the importance of online communications between people and countries until COVID. Lockdowns, what's going on in other countries as far as treatment, how the news is handling things, and even just those moments of humor between people got me through a lot of it. I now spend more time digesting news and information through online conversations than just process the news alone. I tend to lean one way in my views, but I also try and see the other side as well.

Since I now value and see the importance of these communications I am vary wary of bans that sever them. Since I've been living under an "internet rock" for the past 5 years, I have no first hand knowledge as to the reasonings for them. I have done some research, and still am doing research. I'll check out some responses to see if anyone here can help me understand it more.

I’ve a dozen Chinese friends who I’ll lose easy access to. China will become isolated.

@Admin That's the biggest problem that I have with this. The isolation. So, in my digging I found some claims about information and data theft, as well as some claims that information on Americans can be weaponized? It's pretty confusing. Plus, most of the articles I've seen come off as more opinion pieces sprinkled with a little bit of facts. Still digging. 😕

@Admin
Oh well ... too bad ...
That won’t be OUR Fault ... now will it?

The CHINESE People must Ultimately be Held Responsible for the CHINESE Government.

0

Did you know that TrustE (renamed TrustArc on Tuesday June 6, 2017) made the mistake of giving Global TrustE Certification to WeChat on Monday January 6, 2014?
[prnewswire.com]

0

Wars are manifested in many ways including trade and economic. We are technically at war with China (and other nations that threaten the US dollar as trade currency).

0

I am sorry you are losing access to people you want to keep ties with. It's as unfortunate as it is unavoidable.

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