Conservative source the National Review nailed this one on the head, and detail why no true conservative should ever back a guy like Vladimir Putin. I'm posting the whole article here (along with the link for anyone on here who might be a paid subscriber on that site) as there's a limited number of articles unsubscribers can read per month, and every conservative needs to read this...
Putin is no model for American conservatives:
Whatever lingering affection those on the right might have for Putin’s regime should be vanquished by his war of choice.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine will likely be one of the most important events of the relatively young 21st century, upending decades of relative stability between European states. While its effects on geopolitics, markets, and elections remain to be seen, the invasion will also likely continue to widen the growing divide on the American right. A small but increasingly visible and potentially influential faction of American conservatives sees a friend and model in Vladimir Putin. They are wrong to do so, however. Putin is not our friend. Nor is his Russia an example for American conservatism. Conservatives should know the reality of Russia’s social situation, how many of our national interests are incompatible, and how Putin’s governance is not a fit for America.
If you make the mistake of perusing Twitter or reading the comments on news pieces, it will not be hard to find voices loudly wondering why on earth we would have tensions with Russia given that Putin is an able conservative leader who has done much good. While it’s too easy to find wild opinions online, it’s not too difficult to find influential conservative figures aping these talking points. These views range from merely being skeptical of the mainstream conservative consensus to actively praising Putin’s talking points about the invasion. Possibly the most vocal in his admiration is former Reagan administration official and paleoconservative par excellence, Pat Buchanan. Buchanan has consistently Putin as a “stalwart defender of traditional values,” and praised Russia as a place that “conservatives, traditionalists and nationalists of all continents” can ally with.
They could not be more wrong. For one, it beggars belief to imagine that a former KGB officer is in fact some sort of true believer. Indeed, the realities of Putin’s Russia point to a less rosy and more cynical view. For starters, for all the talk of traditional values, actual religiosity in Russia remains quite dismal. With a 6 percent church-attendance rate, Russia remains barely ahead of highly secular countries such as Norway and Sweden. Even more worrying is the abortion rate. While this continues to decline after the Soviet era (as it does in the United States, in large part due to the successes of the pro-life movement), it still remains dramatically higher than in the United States. Far from leading a traditional social revival, Putin’s Russia continues to slide into demographic decline.
The reality is that Putin’s image of a conservative restorer is a political narrative in the same way former Serbian president Slobodan Milosevic reinvented himself from a communist apparatchik to a firebrand Serbian nationalist. Travel writer Colin Thubron’s discussion with a Russian citizen highlights the superficial nature of this brand of conservatism in his travelogue The Amur River: Between Russia and China: I murmur something about the resilience of believers. She suddenly brightens, ‘Oh! We weren’t believers! My father was a Communist and my mother was an atheist! We were all atheists!’ She is laughing at my perplexity. ‘We used to buy sticks of dye to decorate Easter eggs too, in secret. But nobody believed in the Resurrection!’ She adds, as if informing me: ‘There is no God.’ She had walked into the church from habit, not from piety. ‘I think it’s tradition that people live by, not belief . . . that statue in Lenin Square…he’s part of who we are.’
More important, the United States and Russia have national interests that remain in conflict with one another. Any “America First” approach to foreign policy that seeks to anchor American policy to concrete interests must prioritize our own interests over Russia’s. What are those interests? There’s a wide consensus that a top core vital interest of ours is to ensure the physical safety of the United States and to prevent attacks on the homeland. One of the main ways we have sought to achieve this has been to ensure a great power cannot threaten us. As strategist George Friedman writes in his book The Next 100 Years, this has been the north star of America since the Monroe Doctrine. American grand strategy dictates that we not only deny our hemisphere to a great power but also ensure no single power could dominate the Eurasian landmass.
Realistically, there are only a handful of states that could pose this threat: namely, the People’s Republic of China, Russia, India, and Germany. The latter two have been successfully brought into the American orbit. Germany went from being the great power of the 19th and 20th centuries to a non-nuclear power aligned with American interests by treaty. In Asia, the United States has focused its attention away from the Middle East to the Indo-Pacific region in order to counter China, a strategy wisely escalated by the Trump administration.
That leaves Russia. The United States does in fact have objectives that are compatible with Russian interests. Stability in Central Asia and the Middle East as well as nuclear security are two major issues among others where American lawmakers can find common ground with Russia. However, as this invasion (and Putin’s awful speech justifying it) demonstrates, Putin’s objectives in Europe are far broader than many doves had imagined. Rather than simply seeking restraint from NATO, Putin has shown he believes that it is Russia’s right to exercise an armed veto on our relations with the entire continent, with the aim of rendering NATO totally obsolete. Geopolitically this would return Europe back to the era in which wars on the continent were commonplace. It is unrealistic to imagine that America, after being drawn into two bloody European wars in the 20th century, would remain insulated from the negative effects of chaotic Europe in the 21st. The American balance of power in Europe has not only led to the end of Soviet communism and great-power wars, but has also ushered in an era of historically unprecedented peace and prosperity. It would not be restraint but recklessness to jettison a successful strategy of nearly 80 years because those challenging it posture themselves to be our ideological allies.
Moreover, American conservatism has functionally nothing to learn from Putin’s ideology and governance. While some admirers could point to Putin’s belief in Europe’s historic heritage, in reality, the similarities are so vague as to be utterly nebulous. It would be nearly as useful to point to the Islamic State’s belief in God and opposition to anarchism as a basis for a shared ideological partnership. American conservatism is not rooted in some quasi-Soviet nostalgia or a hope to restore Tsar Nicholas’s orthodoxy, autocracy, and nationality. Instead, our conservatism seeks to preserve our specific mix of influences, as so eloquently outlined by Russell Kirk in his Roots of American Order. Kirk lists Jerusalem, Athens, Rome, and London as sources of American identity and politics. Thanks to Russia’s Orthodox heritage, there will always be some affinity between American and Russian civilization. However, the early British and Protestant influences on the American character, combined with the effects of settlement, Revolution, and frontier expansion, all mean that an American conservatism is inevitably different. While it would be a mistake to pretend historic American conservatism is just libertarianism, the American emphasis on constitutional rights, localism, and republican virtue would be alien to the Russian experience. It would not be conservative but radical to wish to uproot every historic influence on one’s country and replace it with another totally outside your country’s experience and culture.
For now, it is not likely that Putinism will become a mainstream position among conservatives. Polls of Republicans show a regard for Putin’s Russia generally in line with America’s justifiably negative view, if not more pronounced. However, as rising voices seek to launder Putinism, we should remember how unhinged that truly is. Far from being a beacon of responsible statecraft, and cooperation, Putin’s Russia is a hostile competitor seeking to undermine our national interests while hiding its own decline behind a charade of traditionalism. The last thing conservatives should be doing is needlessly lionizing a foreign autocrat.
Here's the link- [nationalreview.com]
3
Be part of the movement!
Welcome to the community for those who value free speech, evidence and civil discourse.Create your free account
7 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Putin. He leads a substantial country. Like most who gain power He stepped on a lot of people. Is He a nice guy? Do Not Care! Can He turn Me and mine into radioactive dust? Yes! Could He be charged with any crimes? Still Do Not Care! As far as the War in Ukraine goes a Neutral Ukraine would have stopped it. Now We are playing with Nuclear War. I CARE!
Arty
Level 7
Mar 17, 2023
1
If Putin would set aside his desires to conquer neighboring countries, that threat of nuclear war would end abruptly.
Arty:
@SpikeTalon If the Biden White House set aside their desires to conquer Russia the threat of nuclear war would end abruptly. Both statements are relevant and the Biden handlers are as guilty as Putin.
I don't admire Putin, certainly don't support his foreign policy (or even domestic zealotry), but you have to respect that Putin puts Russia FIRST. I expect the leaders of EVERY country to put their country above all others and to care less what other countries (or media) thinks about it.
I have disparaged anyone that claimed Putin was a 'conservative' influence, but understand the following distinction: classical conservatives always put the State as the highest power - either the King, or "GOD" over the individual. For that reason, they are NOT the heirs of the Founding Father's POV or intent.
Classical liberals, have often hitched their trailer to the 'conservative movement', but it has always been a marriage of convenience against the Left. I've often called the current Conservatives just the flip side of the same authoritarian coin. No surprise they admire Putin.
tracycoyle
Level 8
Mar 17, 2023
2
Putin isn't putting his country first because that would be the right thing to do, he's doing so to advance his own power and clout by giving the impression to his fellow Russians that he is working to advance their interests, in order to secure their cooperation in advancing his goals. In other words, he is using his fellow citizens.
No disagreeing on that part regarding old school conservatives.
No arguing on that much either.
@SpikeTalon It can be argued that going into Ukraine was not in Russia's best interest - but from who's perspective? And with what morality? Russia is not about individual rights - never has been, probably never will be - so what drives it? Mother Russia? WE may not see how individuals in Russia actually feel, or if there is some majority opinion.
I don't know what the majority of Russians think about Putin or the war or ANYTHING because getting an honest response to that request is impossible (I think it is almost impossible in the US!)
And unfortunately, no matter what WE think, the Dems and Biden are making our decisions.
Why is it when we talk about Russia we call them communist they are a socialist nation just ike the USA has been becoming for the past 60 years with socialist programs that have been introduced over the past few decades. There are no communist nations in the world only socialist countries some lead by a supposedly elicited leader or imperial dictator.
KeVince
Level 8
Mar 17, 2023
1
China is still communist. Given Putin's past as a KGB Colonel, I have reason to believe he still harbors Soviet-era communist tendencies, even though the country itself now is technically no longer communist.
Regardless of what political views one would wish to assign to Putin, he's a ruthless tyrant, and certainly someone who the conservative right should not be looking up to as some sort of moral authority.
@SpikeTalon most people call revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism communism, these are not communism but where proclaimed the first step to achieving communism there are no communist nations they are socialist states as long as there is an elite ruling class.
Russia and Ukraine: you don't have to choose sides or be for one or the other. If you saw two rats fighting each other over a piece of cheese, would you pick one to root for? It's a pox on both their houses situation.
GaryMysels
Level 8
Mar 17, 2023
3
I'm not on either side, and the OP above had nothing directly to do with siding with Ukraine. It only laid out a reasoned argument as to why conservatives should not be looking up to Putin as any sort of moral authority. I don't disagree with your point by the way, only thing is on here I've observed far too many who do feel compelled to take sides, and in this case Putin's side.
Howdy @SpikeTalon,
Interesting that the UK always opposed any single power dominating Europe and so does the US.
timon_phocas
Level 9
Mar 17, 2023
2
Messing with Russia's neighbors has resulted in China cozying up to Muslim nations and now feeling more justified about Taiwan. Brilliant.
Foreign policy isn't simply about the two countries in a conflict. Anyone with any sense is looking at the context, conservative or not. And the context is that Ukraine is the neighbor of a nuclear power, just like Cuba is the neighbor of the US and Taiwan is the neighbor of China. And sticking our nose in Ukraine just might mean big trouble when China understands our myopia as an opportunity to make alliances elsewhere.
Anyone not getting that should stick to piano playing, or whatever they're better at, which is just about anything else.
TimTuolomne
Level 9
Mar 17, 2023
2
Who said anything about Ukraine? The OP above made a reasoned argument as to why no conservative should be backing a guy like Putin, and was no endorsement for the Ukrainian side of the argument, and personally speaking I'm opposed to our country equiping Ukraine like we have. Funny how you people didn't feel the same way about Israel when we got involved in the middle east business, but... Israel is one of our closest allies and allied nations help out each other, such is politics. And guess what? Ukraine is also one of our allies, and guess what we did when Putin invaded Ukraine? Yeah...
You're right, it isn't about just the two countries in a conflict... it's more directly about Putin's desire to absorb Ukraine and all Ukrainian identity into the Russian Federation, and if and when he is finally successful in doing such one has to ask themselves what country is going to be targeted next? Surely you've got to know that Putin won't just stop at Ukraine, because he's a threat to the rest of the free world. What rational-minded person even threatens the usage of nuclear weapons to begin with, eh? Do you see us making threats like that? Of course not, because we aren't the bad guys, that's why. Oh please, China has been playing games like that with us for decades now, long before Putin invaded Ukraine.
These pseudo-conservatives promoting Putinism should be ashamed of themselves, and we aren't a cowardly nation, or at least I'd like to think we aren't, but maybe I was wrong to think that. When someone issues threats of nuclear armageddon, we don't back down and just simply ignore the threat and hope it resolves itself, we stand up and fight against tyranny, just as sure as the Founders stood up and fought for what was right. That's why the conservatives lost as much as they did last November, as when the day comes that conservatives back down and act cowardly in face of tyrannical forces is the day American conservatism becomes one sad joke, and not a funny one at that. Cowards, the whole damn lot of them. Putin isn't just a threat to Ukraine, he's a damn threat to the rest of the free world, and I'm afraid you're the delusional one here if for one moment you truly believe that once the Russia/Ukraine conflict is resolved everything will go back to normal, because you'd be dead wrong about that. Some of us still do realize the threat Putin poses to everyone else, because tyrants are a true threat, and some of us also take issue with the senseless slaughter of thousands of innocent people at the hands of said tyrant. That's putting it all in realistic context, and maybe perhaps the American Putin apologists should go move to Russia if they feel our country is that bad, and see if they get treated any better over there than here. I know what I'm talking about as I'm well aware of Putin's history, unlike some of the so-called conservatives out there who at this point I think are nothing more than over-glorified communist sympathizers.
Again, never thought the day would come that I'd be surrounded by conservatives who are such rank cowards in the face of ruthless tyranny. Go off and pray in the corner man, and hope that once Putin is finished with Ukraine that he doesn't make a move on other countries including ours. You know as well as I know though that's childish fantasy, because tyrants never know when to quit. Being silent and cowering before such evil is akin to assisting such evil, and some of us aren't willing to aid such evil. Take a long look in the mirror before you criticize others who are only looking at things from a logical and linear point of view, and trying to help out others. I'm not interested in making apologies for any country including Ukraine, but I do strongly believe in standing up to evil tyrannical forces.
@SpikeTalon Israel is completely different. It is a completely Western nation, not a border neighbor with Russia, and Ukraine includes Crimea, an extremely important strategic location for Russia. Israel is a full ally of the US, and acts as the de-facto front line defense between the Muslim World and the West.
As for Putin being a threat to the rest of the World, that clearly worries you, but it does not worry me at all, for a number of reasons that are well-known, including the state of the military.
Finally, Ukraine is NOT one of our allies. We only have memorandae with them. Ukraine is not even a member of NATO, so Article 5 does not apply. And some of the actions by the Administration there have bordered on illegal, and may actually have been illegal.
If you want to stand up to evil, you might want to put China on your radar.
@TimTuolomne The concept is not different, and both Ukraine and Israel are considered allied nations. Funny how we always want to talk about all of that corruption in Ukraine while ignoring plenty of corruption in Israel, namely in the form of human rights abuses targeting unarmed Palestinian civilians, but of course the mainstream medias don't want to report on that stuff though. Over the years think of all the money that handed over to Israel, increasing our own national debt in the process, and for what exactly? Know what we got out of that in the end... radicalized islamic terror groups who hate us for taking sides, and in the process we became a target for them. If you're really against war, all of that crap in the middle east sure is/was a waste, and maybe we should stop giving money to Israel and let them fight for themselves for a change. That applies to Ukraine, as well it should with any other country, and our country first, and if you disagree how's about giving your money then to the Israelis? I don't want any of my taxpayer dollars going to any other country but our own. Of course, you know as well as I do that radical islam is a global threat, a threat to the rest of the free world, which is why we are involved in that like we are.
You said "As for Putin being a threat to the rest of the World, that clearly worries you, but it does not worry me at all, for a number of reasons that are well-known, including the state of the military." If none of that truly worries you due to our military strength, then why worry so much about a threat of nuclear war then eh? Clearly you too are worried about such, and if you don't consider Putin to be that much of a threat then why not have us go in and neutralize the threat being there's certainly enough evidence to pursue Putin for war crimes?
Our country is both a trade and defense partner to Ukraine, which certainly qualifies them to be one of our allies, not to mention the Ukrainians by and large want to shape their society like ours. They want to be a part of NATO, and should be allowed to do so, and don't give me some crap about illegal stuff when you people have nothing to say about Russia's illegal move invading another country and proceeding to slaughter the local civilian populations. Who's zooming who here anyways?
China is and has been on my radar for years now, did not carefully read my reply above? Putin is aligned with China, and what does that say about him? Both Russia and China are bad news for our country, and it's best not to back down from either of them.
@SpikeTalon Your anti Semitism is noted! What do you think would happen in the Middle East were Israel to completely disarm? Or what would happen to the so called " Palestinians " were they to completely disarm? In the former there would be a holocaust that would make the Nazi one look tame. Were the latter to happen: There would be peace & harmony.
Not a word about the US instigating NATO in a steady encroachment of Russia for 30 years. Don't believe it? In 1949 there were 12 member nations of NATO. Today there are 30 and growing.
angelo
Level 8
Mar 17, 2023
2
Yeah, I wonder why the US did that?
Communism was a threat back then just as sure as it's a threat to this day, and NATO was formed in large part due to the threat of communist Soviet Russia. As that saying goes, once a KGB agent always a KGB agent, and Putin sure was (is) one.
While I'm sure NATO is no stranger to corruption, the same could certainly be said of Russia as well. Never thought I'd live to see the day when fellow American conservatives would take sides with someone like Putin, knowing his past, and personally I don't have much patience for over-glorified leftwing communists like Putin.
Howdy @angelo,
NATO did not so much encroach on Russia as it was begged by eastern European nations to be allowed in. Whether they were former Warsaw Pact states like Poland or 'member republics' of the USSR, they clamoured for some protection from Russia. I was dubious at the time because Russia was and is a great power and defending them would be almost impossible. But here we are, thirty years later.
Be part of the movement!
Welcome to the community for those who value free speech, evidence and civil discourse.Create your free account
Share this post
Related Groups More
Canadian Politics
4021 members
Saving Western Civilisation
2056 members
Black Lives Matter - Exposing Them
810 members
COVID-19
765 members
Conspiracy Research
575 members
American Freedom
357 members
Leaning Left
192 members
Categories
Slug does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.