Valid point. However there are a whole lot more than just one "head-up-his(her)-butt" liberals in the US Congress or intellectually deficient Republicans for that matter. Both sides of the aisle are victim to three generations of dumbing down America by "Progressives."

@Geofrank Those radical presidents Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon, because of the legislation they passed during their administrations, would be labeled Communists today.

@Pand0ro Umm, being radical does not make you a commie. The only radical action I recall from Nixon was his opening up relations with China. In retrospect, probably not the best idea in the world, but as a staunch conservative he was the only one who could do it. And, the political theory in that day was that if we got "them" involved in our economic and free speech ideas they would loosen up. Uhh, didn't work out. Need to abandon that. AS to Dwight, before my time of political conscientiousness.

No you are not right. This doofus was mocked because he expressed a very popular knee-jerk reaction -- before, of course, either thinking or doing some research. AS to more liberals, of course express opinions. However, out here in CaCaLand (I live just east of Frisco) almost all "noise" (I cannot grace it with the term "discussion" ) from almost anyone on the left on ANYTHING gun related is ill founded, nonsensical, and so far divorced from either truth, facts or reasonableness .......... Geesh, Ive given up on them. I've yet to find any who are even willing to exchange views. Express their outrage, oh, of course. Loads of that. Endless. But, almost all the time we are covered with crappola about "reasonable gun control" that will hurt only lawful, careful gun owners; while not doing a darned thing about either reducing violence or hampering criminals. And, the latter is proven. Time and time again, no good effect.
E.g., we tried a "assault gun ban" for ten years, didn't do squat. But, that keeps coming up. By the logic of almost all liberals out this way we might as well give slavery another try -- Maybe we didn't do that right!
The goal of all "reasonable gun control" measures is disarmament. And, this is in conflict with the ~300K/year times a gun is used to stop violence.

Never said anything about all "liberals", only referred to the anti 2A rights crowd, and one lawmaker in particular. Chiu was an idiot for not reading everything on the packaging, and there's no getting around that.

@bobbo666 What I was saying is that their overall policy stances would be considered liberal today. Nixon's China visit was at the request of China. They were under increasing pressure from Russia and wanted an ally to counter the threat. It worked for us to have Russia having to deal with pressure from both hemispheres and it was one of the factors that caused the Soviet Union collapse in 1989. It is necessary to see political conditions as they played out then. Today politics is so sharply divided that we cannot put together a realistic response because there are so few people willing to do it. It is the harbinger of the death of America.

@SpikeTalon Right, there is no getting around it. Both extremes are unhinged. There is no other country in the world that is as obsessed with firearms than the USA and all the push-back by anti-firearms people are not going to change it. Why is that? You can come up with all the stock reasons: freedom, frontier life, self protection, God given rights, but underlying all that is deep seated fear many have that is stirred up by politicians to get the populace to fall in line and also a profound selfishness of people who have been brought up by the idea that American is the only way to be and that we are invulnerable. Our enemies have taken advantage of this by encouraging and enhancing this self-destructive behavior. We pattern our lives like a movie adventure and cannot see what is staring us in the face.

@Pand0ro No arguments from me there on both sides being unhinged, but unless you state otherwise I will assume here that you are able to focus on a given subject/topic. Nothing divisive about pointing out a clearly moronic politician, we have the problems we face because of people like that. Perhaps if we had more politicians who didn't get emotional over issues and actually used their brains, there wouldn't be as many bad policies and thus less division in the process.

Honestly, I wish you were right but, its my experience that almost every anti-gun, anti-2A person I’ve ever gotten into a conversation with, literally knows NOTHING about weapons.
I don’t mean that they know very little, I mean NOTHING outside of what they might have seen in a movie or learned from a video game.

@SpikeTalon Absolutely agreed. Significant numbers of both parties are seduced by wealth and power. Service to our country should be for the country not to establish a career.

@Pand0ro Liberal, yes. However, you did say radical. In those days radical was BlackPanthers and WeatherUnderground.

@bobbo666
radical
[ rad-i-kuhl ]

adjective

A. of or going to the root or origin; fundamental: a radical difference.

B. thoroughgoing or extreme, especially as regards change from accepted or traditional forms: a radical change in the policy of a company.

C. favoring drastic political, economic, or social reforms: radical ideas; radical and anarchistic ideologues.

D. favoring, supporting, or representing extreme forms of religious fundamentalism: radical fundamentalists and their rejection of modern science.

That issue is more complex than most realize, and if it happened once it could always happen again. Australia doesn't appear to have as many depressed individuals or even the same criminal element that the US has, some comparing the two countries is not exactly the best comparison. Also, I know a few people from Australia, and they would disagree with your take on the matter.

@SpikeTalon They would be a very small minority.
You may have a larger population, but it is gun laws that restrict the access to guns that can be more destructive in the hands of inappropriate people... seems you have no such laws.

@SpikeTalon
Well, they somehow neglect to mention the way their Elderly and Disadvantaged find themselves COMPLETELY Unable to Protect Themselves.

My Mom at 87, holding either the Shotgun or 9mm would be trying to decide between ventilating Their Head or Their Body ... she knows better than Firing a Warning Shot. Hopefully she blows them away outside the door because I REALLY dislike patching holes in the walls.

@Bay0Wulf What? You think someone frail or with Dementia should be holding a loaded gun? As for our Elderly needing arming to protect themselves.... what a load of hooey.

@Lightman
“ You think someone frail or with Dementia should be holding a loaded gun?”
Abso-Fucking-Lutely you Priggish Wanker.

Interesting You seem to Equate ELDERLY with “Dementia” or “Frail” for that matter.
At 83 My Mom spent Several Days Running a Chainsaw sawing cured locust trees into firewood length logs ... and running a splitter ... with me ... because she ENJOYED IT.

@Bay0Wulf I've fired weapons military and otherwise... I know how dangerous they are hence I don't own one.
I'm a military qualified Marksman.
You sound like someone who shouldn't have a gun. You obviously don't respect them or their use.

@Lightman The gun is only as dangerous as the human being behind the trigger, it's childish to blame the gun for the problems in society. Australia and the US are two very different countries and what works in one country may not work in another.

@Lightman
Really!?!
Pretty Funny ... a “Military Qualified Marksman” who doesn’t know the definition of “Automatic Weapon”

You do know that “Qualifying” as a “Marksman” in Call to Duty doesn’t actually count?

And yeah ... No ... I have absolutely no “Respect” for weapons or tgeir use.
My Mom gave me my first handgun (.32 revolver) at 12 yrs old. My first rifle was a gift from my Grandfather at 7 yrs old ... to take advantage of my first Hunting License.
I belonged to the Shooting/Gun Club in Jr. High and High School which focussed on proper usage and care as well as target shooting.

Later, I was in the US Military ... though it was the US Navy which might not count ... except I got to do a lot of Government Paid Shooting Practice.

Yeah ... I’ve been safely using firearms for some 50+ years ... I have “NO Respect”

People like you are the reason I own Several ...

@Bay0Wulf, @SpikeTalon What is childish is the carry-on by Felix the Cat...
If people don't have a gun they can't shoot one. They can't shoot other people.
Your country has a problem denying it is stupid. Are there other countries that have the same problem? I'd be interested to know.
[en.wikipedia.org]

@SpikeTalon, @Bay0Wulf People like me cause you to own a gun? Really? I'm no threat to you whatsoever, how can I be the cause of your gun ownership? Why would you need to own several guns because of me... now you are talking complete rot.

@Lightman There does appear to be a problem in my country, but it doesn't involve stupidity or firearms. Private gun ownership is valued by alot of Americans, it's an American thing mostly, so stop trying to figure it all out, you'll only stress yourself out more. By the way, the mass shootings that occur in my country aren't as common as you are led to believe. Most people I know (and I know many) don't live in constant fear of mass shootings, and I live in a big city that is known to be crime riddled, and I sure don't live in fear.

@Lightman What are you babbling on about??? Personally, I don't need to live in fear or be afraid of anyone, and I don't own an arsenal either. Most major cities in the US have strict gun control policies in place, and it hasn't done much to deter violent crime. Australia apparently doesn't have the same criminal element that the US has. Some years back I knew a guy who was a professional thief, and he had ways of lifting weapons from the local Guard base, alot of good laws do when people just steal. What works in one country doesn't always work in all, especially now that 3D printed gun files are available on the net.

@SpikeTalon Babbling...??? Where did I say you were living in fear? Where did I say you owned an arsenal?
If people can steal guns then they are not safely and securely stored. We have laws about that.

@Lightman
Well ... I guess you really don’t understand the purpose of Our Second Amendment.
It IS about Personal Protection from Enemies Foreign ... and Domestic.
It Is about having an Actual “Standing Militia” some 100 Million+ Strong.
It is about some Extremely Intelligent People, in the Late 1700’s who realized that the ONLY reason the US Colonists had been able to hold off and defeat a Despotic Government was due to Nearly Every Colonist Owning Weapons.

Right Now We are being Sorely Used by Our Government but They Can Only Push Us SO Far ... because We Have the RIGHT to Own and Bear Arms ... Which was Recently and COMPLETELY Affirmed by Our Supreme Court (AGAIN).

The British Government has used its Government Monopoly in Firearms to Stage More Than a Few Massacres ... to Enforce Draconian and Unjust Rules and Policies. As have MANY Other Governments Wordwide.

There have been over 60,000,000 Firearms LEGALLY Purchased in the USA ... since the Beginning of 2020 ... Many by First Time Owners.
You can bet that OUR Government Understands that WE Will Not “Go Quietly” if THEY Decide to Try to FORCE Their Stupidity on US.
You can Bet this is a Factor in the Way They View the Limits of THEIR Power.

(Maybe You should read up on the Bundy Ranch Incident ... here: [en.m.wikipedia.org]

and Note; “ In May 2020, federal prosecutors argued that any missteps they made in the original trial were inadvertent. But in the latest ruling, 9th Circuit judges ruled the lower court acted within its authority in dismissing the indictments against Bundy and his co-defendants, while also barring the criminal complaints from being refiled.” )

Which, after all, is the Reason for the 2nd Amendment ...

EVERY Opportunity to Publicly Scream about “Gun Deaths” appear in Our Media ... IF ... ESPECIALLY IF ... They can be twisted to Fit Their Narrative. However, Very Few are with Legitimately Owned Firearms and, in a Nation with Hundreds of Millions of Legal Firearms ... there are Actually Extremely Few Incidents.

@Bay0Wulf I do. But it was written in another time in a different world. Things have changed a great deal since then.

@Lightman
Really? Which World is that?
Have Governments suddenly become All Butterflies, Unicorns and Rainbows?

Are not the Chinese Destroying the Uigars?
Are not the Chinese massing on the Border of India?
Are not the Chinese throwing their Weight Around in the “South China Sea”?
Have not the Chinese ACTUALLY begun to Threaten Australia?
Are not Several Sects of Muslim still Rampaging Across Africa?
How about whats going on in South Africa?
How about what has occurred in Venezuela?
How about Cartels and Government in Columbia?
How about Cartels in Mexico?
How about Russia and the Ukraine? Or Croatia?
How about the Israel-Palestinian Problem?

Not to mention some of the Weird Crap coming out of Your Own Government behind this COVID Nonsense ...

ARE You for REAL? Or are You Simply Ignorant?

@Bay0Wulf Do you live in China.... maybe you think you can take a few pop guns over there and start a revolution.
If you don't see or understand that the world has change that the US has changed since the Constitution was written you have real problems.

@Lightman We have ample laws that restrict gun ownership. To even buy ammo now you have to get a background check. To buy a gun here in CaCaLand I had to take a test on how to handle, store, etc. To even buy a gun at a gun show you have to have a background check, and those run all the way to the FBI database.
This has absolutely no effect on criminals getting a gun of any sort. Like laws don't keep criminals from robbing banks.
What we do not have is a check on whack jobs running about and buying a gun. There is no longer a sanity requirement on much of anything. We did away with those in almost all states 'cause politicos didn't want to take responsibility or deal with the cost of running sanitariums. So, we have WJobs running all about, they are called homeless now.

@bobbo666 Then why do you have such a large gun problem?

@Lightman
Yes I have a real problem.
I sometimes waste my time trying to help Ignorant Asswipes (like you) understand reality.

If a bunch of those people had already HAD Firearms and the RIGHT to have them, the Chinese would be getting their asses shot off rather than enslaving them.

But ... You Do You because that’s what Morons Do.

@Lightman
Hey WANKER (I suppose ... if you can find it) ...
why do We have such a large Gun Problem?

WE DON’T
You just like to gobble up the Mass Media Bullshit Gruel.

@Bay0Wulf Nah you're just a WANKER in denial. Gee don't those name really hurt... ROTFLMAO
Grow up.

@Bay0Wulf LOL you watch too many repeats of Red Dawn... it's not reality buddy.

@Lightman
How ... Odd ... Do Actual History Much?
Look into Switzerland ... Afghanistan ... Vietnam
Nobody went after Switzerland... not even during WWI or WWII ... it wasn’t due to Politics, Money or Chocolate.
Vietnam has remained mostly a viable Political Entity for Centuries ... why?
Afghanistan has “Religiously” kicked everyone’s ass ... including Russia and the USA
In fact Much of the Middle East has been a sore point for “Conquerors” for Thousands of Years ... why?
Or ... look at Israel since the 60s

An Armed and Willing Populace ... even if it only has ROCKS ... can be a Major Bone in the Largest of Throats.

@Lightman We don't. According to FBI statistics ~300k incidents/year occur in which a gun is used/pulled to either stop a crime or minimize further violence. That enormously outweighs any perceived "bad" gun violence. Note, US is not even in top ten of nations for mass shootings per capita. In addition, most of US gun "violence" is some dude/dudette committing suicide -- and calling that gun violence is a straw-man argument . The other big chunk is gang violence. The last big chunk is some Ahole shooting a family member -- which can be done with so many other weapons.
The only people accusing us of rampant gun violence are: Afraid of guns, ignorant, want other to be as weak & defenseless as they have chosen to be.

@bobbo666 I did mention suicide and produced stats.
Australian laws have shown how they reduce gun deaths.

The NZ Mosque shooting was bad enough.

@SpikeTalon Didn't happen in Australia we've had a couple... then we stopped it happening.

@Lightman Just the mere fact that you had some means it could always happen again.

@SpikeTalon Hasn't happened since the laws changed... 1996

@SpikeTalon ANd, further violence was stopped by a guy, a member of the church, with a gun.

Yeah ... instead you have people being intimidated, injured and killed by Knives and Bats ...
That’s so much better.
In YOUR World, a Senior Citizen is just so much Helpless Meat for Your Predators
In OUR World, the Pistol was called “The Equalizer”.
HERE an 87 year old woman weighing 110 lbs (description of My Mom) ...
Can BLOW YOUR HEAD OFF with One of the Guns She OWNS.

YAY For MY Team.

@bobbo666 Ah nah.... Bryant tried to burn his house down caught fire and was arrested.

@Bay0Wulf Well we don't have much of that either. As for massacres... they don't happen here because we don't allow automatic weapons.

@Lightman
Oh ... See? Your Total Lack of Knowledge is Showing.
Although you EXACTLY mumble the Same Crap the Left and Moron Media ramble on about regularly.
We Don’t Allow “Automatic” Weapons either Except through Very Rare Special Licensing.

Try doing a look-up on AUTOMATIC Weapons.

@Bay0Wulf We don't allow semi automatics either.
We have magazine restrictions.
We don't have your illegal weapons problem either.
Oh and whatever you mean by Disadvantaged people becoming not disadvantaged when they own a gun and people deciding to blow people's heads off... that sort of thinking is very very strange.
I don't own a gun I don't feel disadvantaged.
Should we talk about suicide rates or just gun related deaths?

In the two decades following the reforms, the annual rate of gun deaths fell from 2.9 per 100,000 in 1996 to 0.9 per 100,000 in 2016.

What we can say with certainty is that in the 15 years prior to the first gun buyback in 1996, there had been 13 mass shootings in Australia. In the 21 years since more restrictive firearm policies came into effect, there has not been a single mass shooting in the country.

Between 1981 and 1996, there were 13 mass shooting incidents in Australia in which a total of 104 people were killed and 52 injured. This culminated in the 1996 massacre in Port Arthur, Tasmania, where 35 people were killed.

The 1996 National Firearms Agreement covered a raft of measures, including:

restrictions on automatic and semi-automatic rifles and pump action rifles and shotguns
stricter requirements for the registration of all firearms, and
stricter requirements for the storage of all firearms.

The agreement also included a national gun buyback scheme, which saw the surrender of more than 640,000 firearms, mainly rifles and shotguns.

In 2002, more national reforms were introduced, this time focused on controlling illegal trade in firearms and restricting the use of handguns. In 2003, another national handgun buyback scheme was instituted.

@Lightman
Oh ... yeah ...
By the way, I’ve been very interestedly reading Aussie News that indicates that there are Several Rats in Your Private National Paradise.

I guess if Your Government REALLY Gets Out of Hand, you can go after them with a bunch of Rocks ... or maybe they’ll Allow You a Slingshot?

@Bay0Wulf I have no idea what you are talking about or why you take the attitude and line you do.
Re government we will do what we always do vote them in or out.

@Lightman Who the heck is Bryant? And, why would I care of how he disposed of his house?

@bobbo666 killed 35 people in gun massacre.

@Lightman So, you are engaging in tease with partial facts and expect me to recognize. No thanks. Goodbye.

@bobbo666 truth hurts hey?

A losing combo there.

@SpikeTalon By design. Demos want peasants, serfs, like they wanted slaves back in the 1800's.