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QUESTION: Do you believe in racial equality? If so, why?

It seems most everyone believes in racial equality. However, even a cursory examination of the evidence (both observational and experimental) has demonstrated that different races exhibit different general trends in behavior while gaps in achievement persist in spite of intensive social, political, and economic interventions over the past half century. Most everyone believes in racial equality, but the evidence clearly and consistently demonstrates persistent differences that are resistant to amelioration.

Therefore, with all the evidence clearly demonstrating racial differences, why do people believe the races are, for the most part, equal and that, in the absence of discrimination and the presence of equal opportunity, racial differences would all but disappear? Why is racial equality a pervasive sociopolitical policy throughout the civilized world in spite of the lack of evidence that group differences are non-existent in the presence of equal environments?

This is not a question of why group differences exist, be they environmental, biological, or some combination of the two, although I welcome your hypotheses on the subject. I simply want to know why YOU believe in racial equality. What is your evidence? If you have no evidence (e.g., you simply believe its the ethical thing to do), then how does your belief differ from religious faith?

FWIW, I believe group differences exist between human populations and that these differences are a mix of environmental and biological etiology (the precise ratio of which has yet to be determined).

I believe innate differences between human populations (races, peoples, etc) do NOT exist because:

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ZuzecaSape 7 Dec 29

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I voted for the last option because the term "Equality" wasn't qualified. Equality in what sense? No man is equal to another and black is not equal to white as they are opposites. Two trees standing next to one another, of the same species, planted at the same time are equal in some parameters, but not others; they are for instance not the same shape, nor in actual substance the same, nor in a spacial sense as they occupy differing locations in space ect. So to say the races are the "same" what sense? IQ? There are differing averages. Emotionally? We are products of our genetic past, which is influenced by trauma that is heritable and influenced also by culture. Physically? Obviously not. So in what way do you mean equal? You can't mean that we have equal rights because that would be either a matter of opinion or practice and is up to the philosophers to decide. There is no good answer to this question that I can see. Except perhaps a metaphysical one, but that so often disappoints people. I don't believe science has any business getting involved in this sort of topic as it is merely a tool of thought that exists to discover what things are and how they work so that we may exploit the natural world. To use science otherwise is unethical in my opinion. Ethics and their basis should therefore be a higher priority to the scientist than science as he must know when to apply the method and when not to. Here, in the question of racial equality, science has nothing meaningful to add. We know that differences exist, that is so plain to see that we automatically demarcate between the different groups by assigning them to races of people...kinda obvious now ya think about it hu?

So perhaps a question like this ought to be framed properly in the asking. If not, the question loses its power and becomes yet another rhetorical thread to be picked up or dropped by any passerby or dogmatist out to prove a point. I'm not attempting to cast shade on anyone (with the exception of dogmatists. Fuck em) least of all scientists, but I do wish to draw attention to the fact that questions have power only when they are the right questions; that is, that the intent should match the design. Form follows function. Consider what you mean to ascertain before forming you inquiry and form it such that the answer will address your intent.

@mattis117' I'll admit, I could have been clearer in my definition of equality. I jumbled it up and left out a key component.

For the purpose of this thread, I define racial equality as the elimination of statistically significant group differences (means) when all environmental inputs are held constant. I want to know if the reader thinks that's possible (implying 100% of current race disparities are environmental in origin) or not (implying some undetermined degree of heritable, innate differences between races that cannot be eliminated through environmental intervention alone).

@ZuzecaSape I don't believe it is even possible to test that. Studying the races of human kind with that question in mind would never produce useful answers in my opinion as the results could never be quantified in any meaningful way. The only way to perform an intervention study, which would be unethical, impractical and have no statistical power, would be to imprison a minimum viable population sample of every racial group and equate their living standards. But the study has already been confounded by the fact that you're studying different groups of different people, all with genetically inherited traits which will perpetuate generationally. What control measures could be used to produce a uniform result? Eugenics? It's futile to even discuss it in this manner.

Better to surmise that the races are inherently different, but that there are more similarities than differences and the disparities are usually only slightly more noticeable (possibly because of cultural and individual differences) than individual differences between people of the same race. I think the scientific (or statistical) lens is better aimed elsewhere.


Don't morons exist in every homo sapiens races?

@angelo Yes, but some races exhibit such tendencies more than others.


"Races" is a pretty unclear notion.
All demographics can be differentiated in various ways. Overlapping bell curves. "Innate differences" do exist among any group chosen, but the groups overlap too.
What of it?

There should be equality under the law. And there will still be differences.

Agree. The media and lazy consumers of that media are too fond of simple explanations and simple solutions. I believe there should be equality of opportunity but not necessarily outcome. No amount of money nor learning from the most talented teacher would ever make me good at chemistry or engineering. I wouldn't want to consume any product produced my me that required efficiency in those two STEM subjects (any STE subject, if I'm honest).


Racism is bullshit. Some people are worth knowing and some are assholes. And lots of in-between.

Breedism is bullshit. Some dogs are worth knowing and some are assholes. And lots of in-between.


@Staff This would be an interesting question to pose in the IDW/Slug magazine.

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