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How important is Christianity to the future of the Western world?

Thomas Jefferson, a deist who did not believe in a supernatural Jesus, nonetheless had great respect for his teachings. In his spare time, he would cut out the things in the bible that were said to be spoken by Jesus but didn't contain anything supernatural. He called it "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" or what's now called the "Jeffersonian Bible". Jefferson saw value in the teaching and wrote, "A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

As many Western countries have seen dramatic drop in Christian religiosity, some have lamented that society suffers by having fewer people striving to emulate the "goodness of Jesus".

On a personal note, I spent part of the 2020 lockdown reading the entire New Testament for the first time since growing up in a Christian family. While I may still consider myself an agnostic, I was moved by how Jesus called upon us to be the best versions of ourselves. Happy Holidays to all - and an especially Merry Christmas to Christians everywhere.

What is Christianity to the future of the West?

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9

Even unbelievers among the Founding Fathers felt Christianity was important as transmitter of moral values, and therefore important to citizenship.

  1. Appeal to Authority logical fallacy.
  2. Jumping to conclusion, an unjustified leap, from seeing some value to "important to citizenship"!
  3. I don't see them requiring it in the constitution or something. Instead they included FREEDOM OF RELIGION, in the FIRST amendment. Yet you think it's important to citizenship!!! What you're saying is that Congress should make a law requiring being Christian to be a citizen?!!!
  4. Thomas Jefferson himself called for "a wall of separation between church and State".

Sad!

@EgyptianRedpill I admit that I too was an atheist for a long time. I used to get upset when I'd hear a religious person say, "Without a belief in God, people will believe anything"... that was until I started to see "woke-ism", the dogmatic part of the social justice movement, believed true on "faith" with religious fervor. I think that Christianity helps many love those they disagree with them in a way that's missing in the secular movement. Jordan Peterson also sees value in following the practice of Christianity regardless if one believes in the divinity of Jesus (yeah yeah, appeal to authority).

Howdy @EgyptianRedpill,

The people who designed our Republic believed morality to be essential to its survival. They believed religion, which in their culture was Christianity, to be the essential transmitter of those morals.

Thomas Jefferson wrote his letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut in 1801. This is where his "wall of separation" phrase originates.

The Danbury Baptist Association was experiencing discrimination because they were not Congregationalists, the established church in Connecticut. Jefferson wrote that he would work to lessen the discrimination, to place a wall of separation between the government and religion. It was to prevent government from interfering with religion. It was not to prevent religion from affecting society and therefore its government.

@Admin Two dogmas don't make a right, two wrongs don't make a right! And I think you mean the current declawed and tamed version of Christianity, yeah, maybe, but not Christianity of killing your brother, or your son... for worshiping another god, without mercy, or fire and brimstone for Sodom and Gomorrah... And even that "Jesus loves you" cute version of Christianity of "feelings" and emotional blackmail, coming to think of it, maybe it's contributing to the "feeling generation" thing (or at least it's similar or basically the same thing)!

@Admin Also, for that appeal to authority, joke is on you 😂 I only heard of Peterson before maybe once or twice but only recently I started watching a few videos of him and so far reasonable and good stuff! 😂 That aside, authority! C'mon, man! 😂

@timon_phocas "The people who designed our Republic believed morality to be essential to its survival."
Morality, yes, of course. Duh! But morality is not religion. Especially religions with so immoral things in them!

"They believed religion, which in their culture was Christianity, to be the essential transmitter of those morals."
It's funny how you make that leap from "morality is essential" to that wild conclusion and make that claim especially when many of them were not religious themselves!!!

"It was not to prevent religion from affecting society and therefore its government."
It's funny how to you get that from the word "wall"! Maybe "wall" means to you something like a one-way valve or something! But I'll go with it for the sake of argument! How is requiring Christianity for citizenship not interfering and not infringing upon one's religion? How does that hold with that weird "one-way wall of separation"?!

@EgyptianRedpill

Howdy again.

"It's funny how you make that leap from "morality is essential" to that wild conclusion and make that claim especially when many of them were not religious themselves!!!"

Many children, (maybe even most, I need to read more history on that to be sure about the 'most' part) learned to read from the King James Bible. That Bible was often the only book families owned. Why is it such a leap to think they would use those Bibles as the source of their morals, even when they weren't part of a church?

@timon_phocas Howdy 😁 Because that's the same faulty logic of assuming that I (an ex-Muslim who was born, raised, live in Egypt and have a Muslim family) use the Quran as the source of my morals. That's the faulty logic you're applying to the Founding Fathers because they learned to read from King James or whatever as children and were born and raised in Christian families!

@EgyptianRedpill It is compulsory that you declare your religiosity to have any chance of becoming POTUS. America has yet to shake off the religious dogma that infiltrates all aspects of it's political system despite it's declaration of a separation of Church and state.

@maxmaccc I wholeheartedly agree. Yet, I understand why it's still done unfortunately to this day due to demographics and pragmatic reasons! One day!

Although that infiltration exists to a degree, it's not a theocracy! And I think it's getting weaker! I mean, officials can be sworn in not on Bibles and be sworn in on the constitution instead (and I don't mean legally or that there has not been precedent before!) Also, and I know you'd disagree although you might also cite it to prove a point (the same point!), Trump! Is he really a Christian?! The guy who held the Bible upside down and such?! 😂😂😂 Also, you'd also disagree, but certainly there is more acceptance and support from the right to LGBT rights for example (Trump even held the rainbow flag, although you might say he just did it to get votes or whatever!)

@EgyptianRedpill

Howdy again.

"Because that's the same faulty logic of assuming that I (an ex-Muslim who was born, raised, live in Egypt and have a Muslim family) use the Quran as the source of my morals."

Did you synthesize your moral values out of thin air? Or were they transmitted to you through family and society and were they influenced by the religious milieu infusing your society?

@timon_phocas Is the Quran the source of my morality?! Do I look like the Quran is the source of my morality?! 😂😂😂

I see you're adding now other sources in the mix but as a "transport"! But okay! Now to your questions and why they're not "transports"!

My morality of course didn't synthesize out of thin air. They are based on values that predates Islam, Christianity and Judaism combined and values that then superseded them. They were transmitted through family, society and other means of transfer of knowledge (books, research...) But not really religion and let me tell you why.

Does my morality accepts slavery? No. Does your morality accept slavery?
Islam, and the Quran, accepts slavery. The Bible does too. Both even legislate for it.
But you maybe reject it, I assume! Why?!
My family rejects it. My society in general rejects it. But how is that when it's a Muslim family and a majority-Muslim society? It's because their morality isn't based on Islam which even views giving slaves as gifts is better than setting them free (it's a Hadith). They, most or almost all of them, don't even know that Hadith (and many others). They try to deny associating slavery with Islam. They try like every apologetic trick in the book. The same for child marriage and Muhammad marrying Aisha when she was 6 years old. That's because the human race as a whole now has morality better evolved than that of those times. We now know better. That's also due to a basic rule that is older than all the Abrahamic religions which is The Golden Rule.

Also, don't get me wrong. It's not all here not Islamic in such moral topics. For example, LGBT rights, society and family are in general against this. So, my morality on such topics are not through family and society, but also not from thin air, you know!

Also, even the things that seem like good moral values in Islam, and accepted in society and family, most of them turned out upon further inspection to be twisted or tainted and not really as high of values as I was taught during my upbringing.

@EgyptianRedpill

Howdy again. This, on my part, is not a theological discussion. It is not, on my part, a Christian apologetic. It is a discussion about American culture and importance of religion to it. My small contribution was a statement of our founders' views about religion. There is ample historical evidence to support it.

All those other discussions are valuable, essential even, and I would love to have them with you.

@timon_phocas "There is ample historical evidence to support it." Actually, it's not. And I've been demonstrating why throughout our discussion (and in my comment on the Admin post).

@EgyptianRedpill you described Judaism, which I’m still forever indebted to the cause of the Hebrews, the whole galaxy is. The faith of the Hebrew was what gave us our modern utopia.

If you stop warring and focus on inter-community networks like described in the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, this is the cradle out of which we fostered a more benevolent addiction to the global scene, which makes for social norms where intelligent people are incubated instead of tossed to yet another battlefield. We have not seen the end to all war, a Jesus described how his “true” way of living was ever going to be at odds with worldliness. You can attest Jesus said his spirit was the war being fought spiritually, and even Paul tells of bad teaching which would eventually cause the mission to be shrouded by evil intention out of “covetness and lust”.

Western Christianity is a independent practice, which can become social norms. Social norms can lead to disenfranchised groups, who become fringe, and rebel against the inliers. Eventually we have complete cycles. Yet to all who practice deceit and blasphemy, You can hope for justice, but I hope for God. Focus on man, and hope in Jesus adds richness to even the hardest agnostics ticker

@EgyptianRedpill, @maxmaccc it’s not infiltrates if it’s open. People run governments to help people, people also believe in Jesus, it’s common knowledge people can work in a government and have faith. We have yet to yield all society to atheist like Marx communist

@EgyptianRedpill

Howdy again. Here are quotes from America's Founding Fathers:

While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."
--Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever..."
--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.

John Hancock -
"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."
--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.

Benjamin Franklin -
Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.
-Benjamin Franklin wrote this in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790.

Samuel Adams - Father of the American Revolution.
And as it is our duty to extend our wishes to the happiness of the great family of man, I conceive that we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world that the rod of tyrants may be broken to pieces, and the oppressed made free again; that wars may cease in all the earth, and that the confusions that are and have been among nations may be overruled by promoting and speedily bringing on that holy and happy period when the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and all people everywhere.
-As Governor of Massachusetts, Proclamation of a Day of Fast, March 20, 1797.

James Madison - father of the American Constitution. 4th President. A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest while we are building ideal monuments of Renown and Bliss here we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven."
--Written to William Bradford on November 9, 1772, Faith of Our Founding Fathers by Tim LaHaye, pp. 130-131; Christianity and the Constitution — The Faith of Our Founding Fathers by John Eidsmoe, p. 98.

@timon_phocas I suggest you read more into this instead of cherry picking and misquoting/misrepresenting, or taking from sources that do. For example, read more on John Adam's religious views (I think you'd disagree with them being sort of deistic and then later Unitarin)!

Anyway, quotes aside, they still didn't let religion and their religious views to affect government or make laws infringing upon people's religion. In fact, the first amendment prohibits specifically that. They made a wall of separation. Otherwise, they would have made the constitution and laws into something with "Christianity for citizenship" as you're suggesting and such! Some of them holding some religious, or diestic views, or some respect for Christianity... is different that ruling based on it and making it the law of the land. And they are commended on it.

@MisterEdmonds Sure, Jews made great contributions to the world. But attributing that to Judaism is a grave error. It's more correctly, if we take for instance scientific contributions, due to mainly the scientific process. You're committing the same mistake Muslim make when they attribute Islam for the scientific knowledge of The Golden Age (which is not of Islam). Let alone that many of them were not religious (example, Einstein) and that's the same case for The Golden Age scholars.

And it's laughable to talk about war and end of all war when Jesus said he came not to put peace on Earth, but a sword 🤣🤣🤣 Along other stuff he said which are strikingly similar to Muhammad's. Didn't he (assuming he existed) attack a place of worship with a whip?! 😏 The guy was basically a Muhammad who fortunately got stopped and crucified as a criminal and an enemy of the state!

@MisterEdmonds "it’s common knowledge people can work in a government and have faith." True. But they can't make laws "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". A wall of separation. That's common knowledge, you know.

@MisterEdmonds That's a false dichotomy and slippery slope fallacies! You're assuming that no Christianity means Marxism! You know, there are and has been atheists (non-religious in general) who are conservatives, capitalists... (myself included!)

@EgyptianRedpill

Howdy again.

I do not have to cherry pick quotations from our founding fathers about their reverence for the Bible's moral vision. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of quotes expressing similar sentiments. Letters, diaries, newspapers and books of the time are replete with them.

As to whether they were biblical literalists or Deists makes little difference for the purposes of this discussion. These would be differences about the Bible's theology, not it's moral vision. Reverence for that moral vision was essentially universal in early America.

@timon_phocas Maybe you should check the DEFINITION of Deism because it's basically the rejection of revelations (and god doesn't intervene and such!). So, we're not in Kensas anymore (not "differences about Bible's theology" )!

@EgyptianRedpill,

Howdy again.

"Deism: A religious belief holding that God created the universe and established rationally comprehensible moral and natural laws but does not intervene in human affairs through miracles or supernatural revelation."

And yet Jefferson the Deist's proposal for the Great Seal of the United States was an image of Moses leading the Children of Israel to freedom.

Jefferson the Deist described Jesus' teachings as "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man."

Jefferson the Deist attended church services in the US Capitol's House Chambers. He attended his first service there just two days after he penned his letter to the Danbury Baptist Association. So obviously his vision of the 'wall of separation' was different than today's secularists.

Deist or not, the biblical account undoubtedly had a great influence on Mr. Jefferson. And again, his views about the moral matrix of the biblical account were essentially universal in early America.

@timon_phocas So it's not "Bible's theology" as you incorrectly claimed.

You know, Jefferson made the Jefferson Bible removing all/most of the nonsense and keeping what he found some value in and as part of history/culture. He even called it The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth. That's not Christianity nor "essentially universal" as you again incorrectly claim. Yet again, you're still trying to smuggle in religion and your twisted idea of the wall of separation that acts like a one-way valve or something! So, back to my direct question that you ignored:

How is requiring Christianity for citizenship not interfering and not infringing upon one's religion? How does that hold with that weird "one-way wall of separation"?!

@EgyptianRedpill

Howdy again.

I have claimed the Founding Fathers were profoundly influenced by the moral standards of the Bible.

I have claimed the Founding Fathers depended upon the churches to instill moral virtues into the citizenry because, in their view, only a virtuous citizenry could maintain the Republic.

Yes, the Jefferson Bible excised miracles and theological claims. What was left he extolled as "most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man." Hardly a rejection of Biblical morality.

I have never claimed that only Christians can be citizens. This is your accusation, not my assertion.

@timon_phocas "and therefore important to citizenship." So that doesn't mean you want it as a requirement?! So why haven't you addressed it the first time I asked you the question?!

@EgyptianRedpill

Howdy again.

You make your claim based on an incomplete quote.

"Even unbelievers among the Founding Fathers felt Christianity was important as transmitter of moral values, and therefore important to citizenship."

...Christianity as a transmitter of moral values... and therefore important to citizenship...

important because it was a transmitter of moral values.

This is a statement about transmitting moral values to citizens, not doctrinal adherence

@timon_phocas No. I highlighted the important and most dangerous part. I asked you a direct question about it and I mentioned specifically multiple times your twisted wall of separation concept as a one-way valve since about 4 days ago. But you're only now denying it and trying to give it a different meaning. Progress I guess! 🙄

@EgyptianRedpill

Howdy again.

Assertions that someone else knows more than I do about what my words are intended to mean are incongruous at best.

8

Here is example why Christianity is criticaly important and what happens when you take it away.

Francis Schaeffer - How Should We Then Live?

I. Authoritarianism the Only Humanistic Social Option One man or an elite giving authoritative arbitrary absolutes.

A. Society is sole absolute in absence of other absolutes.
B. But society has to be led by an elite: John Kenneth Galbraith, Robert Theobald.
C. Daniel Bell’s prophecy of technocratic elite.
D. Bell’s warning of cultural contradiction: no absolute ethic to accompany absolute power.

...........................................

Liberalism: the Good, the Bad, & the Ugly

Lefties, placed themselves at the moral center of the universe. This is leftover from the liberalism ideals. Church or Monarchy along with its morals are seen as dangerous authoritarians so the liberals say that every man has right to choose their own morals. Off course problem with that is, liberals say that for their own selfishness and autonomy. And they keep protecting their own "rights" so they are always critical of Church or Monarchy, but turn the blind eye to ever more extreme morality of the left.

Prof Sandel gave a good insight: “I would rather try to organize politics and political discourse in a way that encouraged engagement on moral and religious questions. …If we attempt to banish moral and religious discourse from politics and debates about law and rights, the danger is we’ll have a kind a vacant public square or a naked public square.

And the yearning for larger meanings in politics will find undesirable expression. Fundamentalists will rush in where liberals fear to tread. They will try to clothe the naked public square with the most narrow and intolerant moralisms.”

And while most liberals were not fanatics , the problem is that soft left always protects the hard left. Until they come for them too. And that is why now we see exactly that the most narrow and intolerant moralisms coming from extreme left.

“In the end, the actions of such liberals have the effect---again unwittingly---of continuing to cover for the goals of the extreme Left. Yet again, the soft Left is helping to conceal the hard Left, whether it realizes it or not.” ― Paul Kengor, Dupes: How America's Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century

Liberalism is a good idea on paper, but you know, communism is also good idea on paper. And the fact that liberalism as an idea is not to be criticized is one of the big problems, because it likes to think of all the previous systems as evil and oppressive and its self as enlightened and progressive. Sadly this kind of attitude and ego creates blind spot for the most extreme elements further down left to come rushing in.

After all it was liberalism which protected the communists, fascists, and Nazis and today it protects BLM and Antifa, and feminism, and LGBT movements. All radical lefties with the most narrow and intolerant moralisms. All terribly anti social.

.................................

George Orwell once said that the “English intelligentsia…can swallow totalitarianism because they have no experience of anything except liberalism…So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don’t even know that fire is hot.” Having experienced the reality of totalitarianism first-hand, Orwell knew all too well the ways in which people far removed from it employ “soothing phrases” to disguise more sinister ends. Of course, he would later coin the term “Newspeak” in his novel Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949). This was the totalitarian language created to meet the ideological requirements of English Socialism under Big Brother.

“The heirs of the French, English, and American revolutions had partly believed in their own phrases about the rights of man, freedom of speech, equality before the law, and the like, and have even allowed their conduct to be influenced by them to some extent. But by the fourth decade of the twentieth century all the main currents of political thought were authoritarian. The earthly paradise had been discredited at exactly the moment when it became realizable. Every new political theory, by whatever name it called itself, led back to hierarchy and regimentation. And in the general hardening of outlook that set in round about 1930, practices which had been long abandoned, in some cases for hundreds of years — imprisonment without trial, the use of war prisoners as slaves, public executions, torture to extract confessions, the use of hostages, and the deportation of whole populations — not only became common again, but were tolerated and even defended by people who considered themselves enlightened and progressive.”

― George Orwell, 1984

I like this a lot! Francis Schaeffer sure had the future of US nailed. Nice write up.

@MichelleD A guy, ahead of its time. 🙂

Excellent!

What a load of BS. Do you ever come up with your own opinions, or just copy and paste others' and claim it is the gospel truth?

Liberalism is anti-fascist (isn't that what ANTIFA is?) and anti-Nazi. It's the Conservatives and religious fundamentalists who brought Nazism into the world. You know... the authoritarianism you are endorsing?

So much fear-mongering about "totalitarianism" and claiming that progressivism is authoritarian and evil, when in the same post you speak to the authoritarianism of Christianity and how that is necessary. So it seems like you are pro-authoritarianism and pro-fascism, but only if it is Christian. So you are encouraging Christian theocracy over actual individual freedom.

@JacksonNought comrade, you would not understand even if I wrote slowly.

@Krunoslav uh huh, nice dismissal. So you don't have to clarify or defend your position, or even have one (since you just quote other people). Oh and bonus points for the right wing buzzwords.

@JacksonNought no, not at all. Your accusation is baseless, and your argument weak, so I responded in kind.

@Krunoslav please explain how my argument is weak. 1 - provide evidence that Nazism is protected by liberalism. 2 - clarify, are you saying Christian authoritarianism is good, but progressive authoritarianism is bad?

@JacksonNought I would love to explain it and I did many times on this website, but with you its pointless since you either don't want to or don't have capacity to understand what should be pretty straight forward logic. Therefore it leaves me with no desire to try to explain something to a pearson that simpley refuses to engage in common sense arguments. You clearly suppoort e erything I loathe, and every time we have this fruitless exchange, nothing changes. Not much of an insentive to try, is it?

@Krunoslav got it, so just another defection. Just more baseless accusations and unsubstantiated rhetoric. Clear as day.

@JacksonNought your reaction, comrade, is exactley the reason why its pointless to try to wake a man that is pretending to be asleep.

@Krunoslav your tired "comrade" buzzword / bogeyman shows just how blind you really are.

8

The sooner humans can move past religious superstition, the better.

I would agree, if you would change the word “religious” to socialist, progressive, leftist or woke, all of which use the same dogmatic operating system of the worst faiths.

There’s is no exppaination for this reason other than ideological ignorance. Religion can cause diversity, and superstition may cause some odd behaviors. But atheism is only serious to hyper-intellectualist or those who care not to see beyond their own Experience. Where will you be with this idea when it comes to pass the only value added to humanity has been by theologians

@GeeMac I wouldn't change it! I would keep "religious" alongside "socialist", "progressive", "leftist" or "woke" but that would be redundant because they are religious/dogmatic anyway!

@MisterEdmonds Your description of what Atheism/Atheists is/are is a false construct made to make the pious dismiss it without question.
It is simplistic and incorrect in many ways.

@GeeMac Only one of those examples you gave has a deity that craves constant attention and worship on pain of death by burning.

7

United States is a secular nation. It's in the Bill of Rights and places in our Constitution. Christians have their future and America has it's future. That goes for any other religion. They are all separated from the state.

7

I personally find it important because of the moral and ethical teachings heavily used within Christianity, but I don't think everyone HAS to be Christian to be moral and ethical. It helps to have those ideas spread heavily though so those who have no knowledge of the faith and its teachings can still hear the good things... which is most easily done when there are a lot of Christians around talking lol. I'm Christian, btw, and though I would love everyone to be Christian like myself I don't think it is a requirement for everyone before they can be considered good people.

Does any of that make sense? I can't seem to word things well today lol...

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Wells said! With political polarization and cancel culture, we could use more mercy, forgiveness, and redemption...

And a Merry CHRISTmas to you and yours

Not everyone is CALLED to it.

Values of Christianity lead to martyrdom, cultural ethic usually aids community affairs and status quo. Is it ethical to give to the depraved of mind? Yet Christianity claim is all may be redeemed by Jesus submission, thus the hope for man, is the murderer of Christians by and large throughout our families history.

We are a revolutionary people

@Admin it may get taken advantage in the short term, but the hope is in the long game

Makes perfect sense. Merry Christmas.

6

What I believe about the role Christianity plays in today's society is pretty much irrelevant. But the ability to meet with fellow believers and to share my faith with others is of utmost importance.

It's the freedom to practice Christianity that is critical, not only to the west, but the whole world.

5

As a proponent of religious freedom, I think it's fine for people to believe / practice Christianity if they so wish; to them it is fundamental, and that is fine and dandy for them personally. However, I think as a whole Christianity has outlived its usefulness in society, and it should go the way of Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Norse, and Aztec mythology - confined to the history books. We have seen how many of the "moral" teachings have become outdated and no longer relevant, with people corrupting it to try and oppress populations. Political parties should stop pandering to Christians and recognize that there are other religions in the western world, and to live in a truly free society means not forcing people to follow one particular dogma.

Like, overall, except and even though I don't agree with you in seeing "moral teachings" and "people corrupting it" (and not sure if you also include "free to practice Christianity upon others"!)

Society , what’s left, stands on Christian effort, without it your culture will fall like those others.

And Jesus has a better track record than those groupings.

Jesus kinda kicked off the Super Bowl

"...and to live in a truly free society means not forcing people to follow one particular dogma".
Does that include woke/socialist dogma?
Because woke/socialist dogma is about as tolerant of difference as ISIS.

@MisterEdmonds hard disagree with you there.

@Tom81 if by "woke" you mean treating people equally and with respect, and doing the best for society based on proven principles and scientific study, rather than oppressing people in the 21st century based on what some bronze age sheep herders wrote in their fairy tale book...then sure.

@JacksonNought besides writing a book one word sums up: charity.

You couldn’t imagine where society would be without Christian charity

@JacksonNought no, by woke I mean post-modernist/ socialist ideology pretending to care for certain groups whilst manipulating and taking advantage of them.
You talk a big game about tolerance, yet can't tolerate any other view than your own. If only you understood irony and had any self awareness...

5

Amen! I remember the first time I made it through the entire New Testament , huge help , I need to do it again all the way ... merry Christmas !

Once a year, the whole book, cover to cover, once a year. Not tryin' to be pushy, just a good habit to learn. LOL

@lawrenceblair I follow however the Holy Spirit leads, 'here a little'; then I mull on it, gradually incorporate it into my life. Often it's so new, strange to old ways. And there's levels, doors to go up.
Unlike the world, nothing boring there. Discussions are mandatory for me to see how it really is.
Have a wonderful season!

@lawrenceblair perhaps... tho much of the old testament can be summarized as "yada yada..." 😉

@Admin I read four chapters a day, just four chapters takes twenty to thirty minutes. So, every day I will read from the Old Testament once and the New Testament twice every year. Why is it not boring? Because, each and every day, I see something, feel something or something strike me, kinda, like up side the head with a two by four, "Wow, I never thought of that before." Happens to me every day. Course, you gotta' pray before that the Holy Spirit' will teach you.

4

The big problem is how our culture confuses Christianity with evangelical fundamentalism, to the point where the two are falsely viewed as synonymous.

In fact, the birth of Jesus, which is really the beginning of Christianity, marks a profound transition from the fire and brimstone authoritarianism of the Old Testament, to a the New Testament’s radical vision of redemption, forgiveness and love.

It was Christianity that first introduced the ancient world to the idea of sovereignty of the individual with free will and the ability to transcend sin and seek redemption. This was enthusiastically embraced in the western world and became an essential building block in development of the freest, richest and most affluent societies in history.

As more and more people disagree with that assertion, we become increasingly unmoored from our foundations. Even for people who disagree, there is much value in the philosophy and mythology of Christianity from a purely secular view point. Unfortunately, though, our culture is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

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A lot of 'Christian' traditions stem from pagan traditions in Europe. Therefore ditching these would be ignoring your roots and your culture. I'm an atheist and can still follow the core moral beliefs of Christianity without following the dogma. It's also important to note that Christianity has been a symbol of defiance towards fascism and communism in Europe.
If you got rid of it, what would you replace it with?

Not from the Judaism? Seems like you haven’t considered how influential that tribe has been on world history

@MisterEdmonds well...the jews and Europe don't have the best history.😬
When the Christians came to Europe, they absorbed a lot of pagan traditions. The same can't be said for jews. A major part of the Jewish community also resisted integration into local customs and saw themselves as better, hence were eventually kicked out.

I wish the culture appreciated the great value in many of the myths, biblical stories and rituals, many of which are tied to the very motion of the planet itself, like the return of light with the winter solstice (Christmas and the birth of Christ) or the return of fertility and life with the spring equinox (Easter and the Resurrection). There is something that resonates deeply there regardless of what I may or may not believe.

I love the ancient Greek myth of Demeter (wheat) and Dionysus (drink) whose bread and wine celebrations at harvest time were incorporated into Roman Catholic rituals that are practiced to this day. There has to be a reason why these survive across thousands of years.

@GeeMac There has been a renewed interest in a lot of old traditions in Europe (at least in the Slavic countries) over the past few years. Maybe as a pushback to globalism. Maybe due to a rise in patriotism as a pushback on 'woke' socialism.

@Tom81 best history between Jews and Europeans? Jewish culture has been the backdrop all of western civilization. Jews are racist but they held practical social values Caesar’s wanted thier own civilization to model.

The problem with the theft of Christmas narrative falls apart when you understand druids held the same spiritual virtues, and pagan druids were so excited by Jesus gospel, THEY capitulated by integrating into the movement. Also I read druids DNA originated from Jewish bloodlines, fitting with the idea of the “12 tribes dispersal” theory when Jerusalem fell to Babylon, other tribes of Abraham went further into the country of Europa. Which is why we may find similarities in these emerging societies after the Assyrian Empire

The first treaty the Nazi party had was with the Catholic church. The church agreed not to put a candidate to run against the Natzi party, thus letting them run unopposed. The Catholic church celebrated Hitler's birthday from the pulpit right up until the end of WW2. German soldiers also had an interesting inscription on their belt buckles.

@maxmaccc The inscription 'Gott Mit Uns' was only used in the very early war period, more likely to be leftovers from late WW1/ Weimar era production. It was ditched pretty quickly. And yes, the Pope made an appeasement pact with the Nazis during the war (because 'relocating' the jews was expedient to the church), even helped them escape to South America after the war ended (on Red Cross ships). However, a lot of priest were against the regime, helped the resistance and were persecuted themselves. After WW2, pope John Paul II (I believe he was an army chaplain during the war) was a symbol for resistance against communist dictatorships in Europe. I know my family managed to escape from Poland during the 80's thanks to a deal struck with the Vatican and communist party in Poland (the party had been caught assassinating high ranking clergy and struck a deal to avoid international pressure - Poles were allowed to visit the Vatican on a 3 day pilgrimage. Once they crossed the border into Italy though, they were accepted as refugees).

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I actually think you can be a very good person without being a Christian or even following an organised religion.

Of course you can. Any number of "religious" and social philosophies provide guidance to being better people on Earth. however, Redemption for Original Sin and Everlasting Life have only one mechanism that transcends our reality from the greater reality in Jesus Christ. No amount of rationalization will ever change that fact.

@TimTuolomne Well where did I say I didn't believe in Christ or God, etc?
I'm quite happy to profess I'm a Christian.

@Lightman, I vaguely agreed with you, and added a philosophical observation. I asserted nothing about you.

@TimTuolomne Then you could have left off the religious statement and ... "No amount of rationalization will ever change that fact."

@Lightman, I did not accuse YOU of such rationalization, but you are welcome to take it that way if that is your preference.

@TimTuolomne maybe take more care with what you write instead of how people read things

@Lightman. I am fine with what I wrote. Apparently you are not...and as I clearly stated, I don't care how you read it.

You have attempted to get a rise out of me for trivialities before. Why not engage in a real intellectual discussion instead? If not, I'm not interested.

3

People who are criticizing Christianity in the western countries are so hypocritical that they don't realize, that they're doing it because they can!

3

Jesus is real. I have been healed three times by healing prayer, have been healed from emotional trauma through Christ Centred Innner Healing (CCIH), have prayed demons out of people using Jesus' holy angels and have healed others through the CCIH.
So, as He is real, He will return to judge the living and the dead. Best decision in my life was to acknowledge and experience Jesus in my life.

@Black5 I hope this helps

3

I'd say it's none but it would be just historical (and not really historical because the USA wasn't "one nation under God" or founded on "Christian values", but historical in the social aspect or as it was at times, current times, treated as "the foundation of the west", "one nation under God" and that the US dollar became to have "In God we trust" written on it and such). So I voted "None".

It would just wither and die like other religions did! It's already declining in the west! And quoting Thunderf00t, "the Internet is where religions come to die"!

Values? What values?! Not coming to put peace on Earth but a sword?! The value of cursing a fig tree?! The value of violently attacking a place of worship with a whip?! I regard Jesus as a failed terrorist, just like Muhammad, but fortunately was stopped and crucified as criminal and an enemy of the state in his late "Meccan" period and before really getting into his "Medinan" period!

I tried to get atheists to consider Humanism... even coming up with my own god-independent version that tried to harmonize ethics between belief and non-belief (can read it here: [humanist.com] ). However, I found that most atheists were not interested in embracing a code of personal ethics.

@Admin not sure what atheists you are talking to? All of the atheists I know have their own personal ethics, it is just absent from any supernaturalism. As you know, the only thing common among atheists is their belief (or lack thereof) in a higher power - nothing else.

@Admin Most Atheists? You need to meet a few more perhaps. Does anyone really believe that without a Bible you'd be less ethical and less moral?
Some would argue that religion has caused otherwise decent human beings to behave atrociously.

@Admin I haven't read it all, only just a few lines but they were reasonable things any reasonable human being should be doing anyway! I think you're confusing with the refusal of some of us of labels, or also the refusal of, you know, a dogma/doctrine/religion/religious-text! Even though in your page you say that chances that the reader is (and yes, that's true generally speaking except if there is something not reasonable in the parts I didn't read!) Also, maybe you're confusing of the refusal of some of us of using another term instead of "atheist", not shying away from it and saying it loud and proud (as much as it's possible of course!) I think I'm in the last 3 groups of the 4 I've just mentioned!

@maxmaccc "You need to meet a few more perhaps."
Quoting Jordan Peterson, "read more!" 😂😂😂

"Does anyone really believe that without a Bible you'd be less ethical and less moral?"
I don't think he was say that. But to answer your question, yes, many do believe that (same for Muslims and maybe every other religion or similar religion of sort!)

@JacksonNought, @EgyptianRedpill, @maxmaccc I should have made the keyword of "code" bold or something. Yes, we all have ethics but I see a benefit of it being discussed, codified and taught. Then again, woke-ism is being taught in school from K-12 to the university and in many business settings.

@Admin Fighting fire with fire?! You know, we had a president who fought fire (Socialists/Communists) with fire (Islamists). The Islamists assassinated him (Sadat). And don't religious books (at least the ancient ones!) start that way (maybe except The New Testamanet, The Quran and Kitáb-i-Aqdas and similar books)?!

I'd rather have critical thinking, logic, morality (the philosophical stuff such as the Trolley Dilemma), and the evolution of morality being taught in schools over yet another "book"! Also, the Declaration of Human Rights, the US constitution and some history of course! But those wouldn't be a "book" and another "-ism"!

@Admin Good to know that there is a prayer line for atheists. You call the number but there is a never anyone answering.
NO atheists in foxholes.

Said the man standing atop the mountain formed by western ethic

@MisterEdmonds Western ethics which are rooted in the Golden Rule found in Ancient Greek said by Thales and Isocrates and in The Eloquent Peasant of Ancient Egypt reflecting the teachings of Ma'at dating to 2040 - 1650 BCE, and evolved superseding Abrahamic religions? Of course 👍

@EgyptianRedpill the nature of God as revealed by Hebrew prophets and messiah testify we are instilled with the Love of God from our species founding. That it is considered in every culture to do virtuously is supporting evidence. But do you consider the God that existed before? We may find many ways humanity is a blessing and a curse. The mission of Jesus was to verify and validate this mode of thinking. Spirituality is the dawn of humanity, and likewise it has prevailed and succeeded in areas at times

@MisterEdmonds "the nature of God as revealed by Hebrew prophets" Oh, the god of fire and brimestone! Oh, how a loving god! 🤣🤣🤣

@EgyptianRedpill 🥱 ever see justice without mercy? It’s really not pretty for the offender and the offended. Imagine one could avoid retribution for his social crimes against humanity and time itself when even a lie becomes a butterfly effect that causes devastation. Ex: imagine your crime of denouncing Jesus entices a human Jesus loves to be satanically swayed and manipulated by, given that is satans clause, of which the totality of affect by that ones life goes from pious to dastardly for a life time, which effects consequences beyond comprehension of both grand and small alike.

Yet the ‘kryptonite’ of this justice system that ever human who so defrauds God to suffer more unrepentant people, is his will to give mercy to such criminals who acknowledge thier faults before the courts, and because of love, remission and pardon as long as one stays aware of their own imparted mercy.

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It's a complicated question. The West as we know it started long before Christianity. Most of our institutions owe more to Greek and Roman thought than Christian ideology. That said the Old Testament transmits the traditions and ethnocentric wisdom of the oldest civilizations those of Sumer. Babylon, Canaan, Egypt, an others as experience by Jewish authors.

The New Testament is a different kind of animal. Christianity seems to be a Jewish eschatological reform movement. Under the Roman empire the ethnocentrism of Judaism may have seen as quaint to people living 2000 years ago as nationalism seems to many people today. Christianity in this sense seems to want to take advantage of Pax Romana while keeping a montheistic tradition alive. The problem is the eschatological nature of Christianity creates an environment of passivity not well suited for maintaining a complex society such as Rome's.

There are other elements to Christianity that are more philosophical than theological that are of interests but how useful they are to public morality is of some doubt because Christianity like Buddhism is a personal philosophy.

I'm cutting it short because it is a subject that could be discussed in volumes. I would read the "History of the Roman Empire and Fall of the Western Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon" to get a different perspective on how the traditions we think of as Christianity may be a bit misleading.

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Christianity is fundamental to every individual on Earth.

2

To the few coming to believe, it will be more important than anything else.
I found what Jesus said true. It's one of those things: I couldn't pick and choose. Buy ALL, buy none.
There's plenty of wisdom in philosophers, sages, rabbis, Sidguru etc.
I emphatically did NOT find Jesus to be a liar in ANY capacity.

Jesus told me the truth. Following him could likely cost me my physical life.

With how things are in Canada(the Canadian military had to SALUTE Xi Ping, CCP, it's anybody's guess
how long I have.
If you bought the endlessly whirling, orbiting oploid(earth), then God/heaven is impossible.
I found it's flat, lots of evidence.
I actually didn't know the BIBLE taught flat, stationary earth for some time.
How did God know THAT!!(sic)
So then, heaven above, hades below.
So glad really evil people don't just 'get away' with anything, ALL recorded.
Studied it for a long time, makes sense.
And DOING what Jesus says, there's the rub. But when I do it, it WORKS. Hard to do, but works.
A wonderful Christmas and finding goodness in this New Year regardless how bleak it appears.
Blessings.

The Earth is an Oblate, rotating Spheroid as are other observable planets. This is a provable,testable and observable fact,
There is no dome and no edge as described in the Bible.
There is no scientific evidence for a flat Earth.

@maxmaccc FE is the far more provable. Tyson says it's PEAR shaped? And he KNOWS this?
Tilted, of course, throwing off balance. WOBBLING?
There's loads 9f provable evidence for FE. I know quite a lot. But there's more.
One hundred years ago, Michaelson and Morley, and then Sigurdson proved, through split beam experiments, earth was STATIONARY, did not move.
I'm so glad up is up, that I can trust my God given senses.
Lots of laser beam experiments prove absolutely no curvature.

Then that moon tide nonsense.
You don't know science, just brainwashed. Along with most.

@2FollowHim The Bible doesn’t teach flat earth, that’s imagination with interpretations. But be wrong or right on every issue, but foremost acknowledging theTruth by Christ alone makes the personal difference.

@MisterEdmonds No, there are over 45 scriptures of flat earth.
Do you remember that God is ABOVE?
And hades, the unseen below.
The earth was PROVEN, read that again by very well known SCIENTISTS many years ago, AS I SAID, to be NOT MOVING. Sigurdson illustrated it, split beam.

The EARTH shall not be moved(until the very end).
The FOUR CORNERS of the Earth.
You're the one with imagination with interpretation. This is 100% worldly.
God's ways and the world's ways are diametrically opposed.

There's NO CURVATURE.
Go to Kansas, and see for miles, nothing dips down: it must on so called globe.

How do you get SUN SPOTS from a 93 million mile away sun?
Those rays would be far apart, parallel.

With the oploid(not a sphere), there is no up or down, but God has everything very specific.
Youtube censures truth, not lies.
A person really gets bullied for leaving 'herd mentality'.
Admiral Byrd traveled for over TWO YEARS, for 166,000 miles along Antarctica, never returned to starting point. Note nobody can go, why?

@2FollowHim Im not going to fight flat earth ideas. That is your right to run with

@2FollowHim Best you be listing these scripture. I have a bachelor's degree in Theology, and Anthropology and this is news to me.

@CynicalGrump I first came to understand and study EVERY video possible on FE in around 2014, and continued. So, FIRST, I learned FE. Remember that for some 4000 years, astronomers drew and knew FE. Then I saw the videos that showed FE in the bible.
<a href="https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/AHQ44V9Rxf85X-WQAQiHmKdGeas?.src=ym"Know Thy Enemy" Group=myc&showImages=true&offset=0&folderType=INBOX" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="forumlink">[mail.yahoo.com]

These excellent videos have all been removed by youtube. Hard to find.
Remember in Genesis? The DOME over the earth? I've learned God knows how to talk, DOESN'T generally used 'poetic license ' but is literal. I took all sciences, and also anthropology.
To give a few things, Remember how Jesus's coming is 'as the LIGHT shines from the EAST to the WEST, ...and EVERY EYE shall see Him. People have to twist what is said to dismiss what is said?
The FACE of the earth. The four CORNERS of the earth.
The earth shall NOT be moved(until cataclysmic events).
With the opioid spinning at 1000! mph, and ...get a sense of this 166,600 mph orbit then some 500,000 mph around the next ring.
And you buy that? While you feel nothing of the sort, while Australia is then 'upside down ' to us.
Yes, there IS no UP, no down in this.
But the bible teaches clearly there's UP and DOWN.

I could cite far more, but my TABLET is too slow.
Yes, this will be a shock, and you may just buy into the world's 'alternative theory'.
I saw it right away having ridden many PLANES, note this word.
It goes on and on, and mostly mocked, ridiculed like those saying there was election fraud, or
9/11 was inside job.
If you do read the bible, you'll remember Paul said, 'let God be true and every man a liar.
I'm seeing more of this.
Thanks for requiring.
Best in this season.
BTW? The truth sure makes a person free!

@2FollowHim Not sure about the interpretation here. As a theologian I will need to correct a few things. Firstly, the word Dome actually came in to existence around the year 1650. If you are referring to the "waters being held back" or "waters above" (depending on version) you need to go back to the Hebrew. This word is "raqia", which means "to beat or spread out thinly". Translating this to Dome is not really accurate. If Dome was an accurate translation, you would then need to consider what was known at the time. Yes the Bible might be God's word, but it still written by man using mans words and knowledge available to man at the time.

Running parallel to this DOME theory though, is a world of debate about people outside the Garden of Eden. Did God create people out side of the garden? Was the Garden itself inside the DOME, while all else existed outside the DOME?

As far as God using Poetic Licence, I agree, God does NOT, but man does, did, and always will use metaphors to describe what he is yet to see or understand. Take Revelations and Ezekial for example. WAs Ezekiel's description of the Valley of Dry Bones literal? Are we really expecting to see a "Lamb in Wolfs clothes" or a "beast with 7 heads". Most theological scholars will agree that we are not. However, when whatever these symbolise actually appear or come to pass, we will know.

@2FollowHim Your ignorance knows no bounds. L.I.G.O, research it. Luminiferous aether, research it.
Gravity, research it, It will inform you which way is down.
Tide comes in, tide goes out, you can't explain that, research it.
You're to illiterate to communicate with in any meaningful way.

1

The answer hovers between Fundamental and Important.

The concept of “Christianity” is largely a Construct Created by the Roman Emperor Constantine (the Great) in the 300’s ACE around the Figurehead of Jesus of Nazareth (The Christ) which Codified a Social and Moral Code based on thousands of years of Existing Laws, Traditions and Many Disparate Religions or “Faiths” reaching back as far ... or even further than ... the Written Legal Codes of Nebuchadnezzar and Hammurabi.

Is There, Was There, such a Person as the Jesus Christ as described in the Various Versions of the New Testament? Is He, Was He, God Made Man? The Son of God? Did a Young Man in his early 30’s really bring forth a Totally New Philosophy and Thought Process in the Three Short Years of His Acknowledged “Ministry”?

Constantine, in a stroke of Brilliance ... of Sheer Genius ... used the Tales, Legend and Stories that existed about an “Exemplary” Human Being and Created a Touchstone that was Humanly Relatable to/by the Masses to act as the Foundation of a “New” Social, Moral and Legal Code.

Does This Matter? Is It Important? The Answer, for Many is YES for Others, Not So Much.

Is ... Was ... the “Man” of Primary Importance, Is/Was the Results of His Exaltation of Primary Importance or, Is/Was the Results of the “New” Codified Code of Primary Importance?

The problem that had existed to that time was that Empires ... Kings ... Emperors ... Rulers ... could create and enforce Laws and Rules only as far as their Power Reached ... only as Far and as Long as the People Allowed or were Willing or could be Forced to Obey. In areas beyond their reach, Chaos Tended to Rule. Various People followed and/or worshipped Various Flavors of “God” and could justify almost ANY Behavior simply by Choosing the Appropriate “Flavor”.

Constantine sat at a time wherein the Reach and Scope and Power of the Roman Empire was waning ... the “Barbarians” were figuratively and literally “at the Gates” ... “Civilization” was literally about to Fall ... AGAIN ... as it had so many times before.
Constantine, in a gesture relatively unusual for a Ruler of the times, sought a way to forestall this Fall into Chaos and Gave ... Created ... a New Way ... a “Unified” Concept of GOD ... AND a Form of Accessing ... of Interceding with GOD ... to the Common Man ... the Masses ... in the Form of “Jesus the Christ” who could be relied upon to be a Champion to ALL People Great OR Small in a Form that was easily relatable to Everyone and through Him ... the Examples Ascribed to His Life ... His Teachings ... His Philosophy ... His Trials ... His Death ... a Simplified Moral Code of Ethics.

Literally, “What Would Jesus Do”?

Christianity ... is it “Fundamental” ... is it the “Foundation” of Western Civilization as We know it today?
YES.
Is Christianity IMPORTANT to the Future of the Western World and Civilization?
YES. In fact, probably even more Now than at Any Other Time.

When a Child receives the Teachings of Christ ... as Codified by Constantine some 1700 Years Ago ... they are being introduced ... “programmed” ... taught ... how to Live and Socially Integrate with the World ... with the Greater Society ... with Humanity.
Children in their youngest years are being given the tools they need ... proven tools reaching back over ALL of Western History ... some 7000 Years ... how to live in Relative Harmony.
What they choose to do with these tools ... whether they follow them, use them, or simply ignore them ... it is IMPORTANT that they Learn Them and there is NO Greater Teacher in Western Civilization than Christianity and the Collected Tales of a Simple ... Humble ... Carpenter who has been Created to be “Jesus of Nazareth” ... “The Christ”.

It matters not whether Jesus is “God Made Man” or “the Son of God” or even if he’s simply a fabrication of Constantine.

In whatever version you perceive him, HE is worthy of Your Adoration, Exaltation and Love.

The Roman Emperor Theory?
Your response is well considered. Emperor had introduced a new legally recognized order of theology based on the Gospel of Christ.

The first Christians lived as described in Acts before becoming martyred communities in the persecution of the first 3 centuries after the birth of Yeshua/Jesus

During reformation by Constantine a reprisal of Jewish Society was modeled for the Catholic Church, reasonably from its perspective, which would conduct the mass transitioning to Christ consciousness. While many worldly narcissism’s would infiltrate the heart of the organization through typical human agents, as Apostle Paul stayed, ..”as long as Christ is Preached.”

Jesus may not be as “real” to one person as the next, but if “conspiracy Jesus” is being thought, on what level would Roman disseminate a hero that endorses being martyred for Gods sake. How could anyone, even Caesar, be so educated in Judaism as to compose a Jesus so understanding of Jewish plight.

Jesus existing is the shiver in the inner characters ego, and the Medicine to the malformed perspective of our journey.

1

Tolstoy's relationship with Mohandas Gandhi

Mohandas Gandhi wrote in his autobiography The Story of My Experiments with Truth (Part II, Chapter 15) that this book "overwhelmed" him and "left an abiding impression." Gandhi listed Tolstoy's book, as well as John Ruskin's Unto This Last and the poet Shrimad Rajchandra (Raychandbhai), as the three most important modern influences in his life. Reading this book opened up the mind of the world-famous Tolstoy to Gandhi, who was still a young protester living in South Africa at the time.

In 1908 Tolstoy wrote, and Gandhi read, A Letter to a Hindu, which outlines the notion that only by using love as a weapon through passive resistance could the native Indian people overthrow the colonial British Empire. This idea ultimately came to fruition through Gandhi's organization of nationwide nonviolent strikes and protests during the years 1918–1947. In 1909, Gandhi wrote to Tolstoy seeking advice and permission to republish A Letter to a Hindu in his native language, Gujarati. Tolstoy responded and the two continued a correspondence until Tolstoy's death a year later in 1910. The letters concern practical and theological applications of nonviolence, as well as Gandhi's wishes for Tolstoy's health. Tolstoy's last letter to Gandhi "was one of the last, if not the last, writings from his pen."

With other nonviolent activists

The Kingdom of God is Within You also had a great effect upon James Bevel, a major 1960s strategist of the civil rights movement. After reading the book while serving in the U.S. Navy, Bevel came to the conclusion that he would be unable to kill another person. He thereafter sought and was granted an honorable discharge, and entered a seminary for religious training.

SOURCE: [en.wikipedia.org]

A GOOD READ OR LISTEN

The Kingdom of GOD is within You, Leo Tolstoy

READ - [archive.org]

LISTEN -

1

Without getting into complex theological questions about the divinity of Jesus. If we just look at the humanity of Jesus, the historical Jesus, what kind of a person do we see? The embodiment of the essence of ancient law and justice, and the inspirational figure of human and civil rights since. A fighter against corruption and superficiality. And a promoter of living values, authenticity, and communion of the human family. A courageous lover of good and truth. And note Jesus only teached three years, the impression he left was astounding.

When talking about civil rights, people typicaly think of Mandela and M.L. King, they where inspired by Ghandi, who threw the British out of India through "non-violence" protest. And Ghandi got his inspiration from a book with the title "A Letter to a Hindu", written by the novelist Leo Tolstoy, and Tolstoy was a devout Christian that got his inspiration from Jesus 🙂 read "The Kingdom of God Is Within You".

The Greek philosophy of Socrates or Plato is the other important western tradition. And to add, the Greek philosophers that received Jesus apostles with most interest where actually the platonists, Clement of Rome had studied platonism, and so did Justin Martyr. Both Jesus and Plato shared the love for the One, the True, and the Good. Both are guides for spiritual orientation and liberation. In a way they explain each other. The old Greek and Christian traditions are the foundations of western civilization.

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With all of the accusations radical Christians make against a alleged " War on Christmas" , I am still waiting on believers to actually say "CHRIST-mas" instead of " CHRIS-tmas " [( please fix your propaganda song roster... ) ' CRY-ST-MAHS']

Meanwhile, on the other extreme you have virtue signalling strawman who are so terrified of offending everybody that they end up struggling to participate in any traditional holiday fun.

1

It’s hard to consider but the Bible tells the truth. Once you witness miraculous spontaneous healing at the hands of a Christian, everything else becomes the facade. The writings also are the best to understand our situation. Most won't believe until they see this. And since this is the case, Christianity (though practice varies Greatly) is fundamental to our entire reality as far as the sky stretches.

Are Some aliens Christian?

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...FoSho!
0

For secular adults, the BBC production with Jeremy Irons as a protagonist that ends up seeming to betray a competitor makes Christianity's defense the bulwark it gives to tradition. Whether or not anything miraculous occurs has more to do with physicists inability to control time. There is no grand unified theory showing how time can go backwards, & those thinking the possibility humans will someday transcend going physically into the future leave all sense of time about anyone left behind. Time compresses thoughts of whether miraculous possibility exists in the present, but because it's also not discerned for the possibility of miracles for the future, deference for & the projection of a beneficent creator becomes very personal. Therefore, wanting a timeless & beneficent creator, whether experimenting with their creation or not, is how miracles arrive in our dreams. Christ appears as a "vision" to narrators for the writers of scripture, after his death. A Western film comes closer to applying art to the more defined scripture, possibly for being too direct. "The Living Daylights", one of several Bond films to have its protagonist see life as easily sardonic, is at least somewhat accurate as a Zen koan with its theme song's admonition: "..Living 's in the way we die." For creatures like us, ensconced in the imperatives of time, every waking moment awaits dreams of another life.

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Everything must be put in context if it is to be really understood. In the western history of theology, Jesus teachings are the roseta stone, a change in spiritual language between old and new. Jesus is using a particular language to explain vital things that are difficult to understand, the story of Tyranny and Righteousness.

It is my impression that many atheists have the idea that because the Catholic Church has misuded its power historically, the teachings of Jesus could just as well be deleted. But this is illogical, you would not say that because the UN has corruption, therefore the Declaration of Human Rights is worthless and should be deleted. Would you?

Intro to New Testament

My favorite movie of Jesus. This film follows John's Gospel precisely, without additions to the story from the other Gospels or omissions of the Gospel's complex passages.

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