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Study: up to ninety-five percent of 2020 US riots are linked to Black Lives Matter-
[thefederalist.com]

Contrary to corporate media narratives, up to 95 percent of this summer’s riots are linked to Black Lives Matter activism, according to data collected by the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (ACLED). The data also show that nearly 6 percent — or more than 1 in 20 — of U.S. protests between May 26 and Sept. 5 involved rioting, looting, and similar violence, including 47 fatalities.

ACLED is a nonprofit organization that tracks conflict across the globe. Its U.S. project that collected the summer protest data is supported by Princeton University. The project’s spreadsheet collating tens of thousands of data points documents 12,045 incidents of U.S. civil unrest from May 26, 2020 to Sept. 5, 2020.

SpikeTalon 9 Sep 16
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0

So ...
Who’s “using” who ...?
Is BLM using/fronting for AntiFa?
Is AntiFa using/fronting for BLM?
Honestly, the more I look at them (and assorted minor affiliates using other “names” ) the more they simply look like “Fellow Travelers”.

Or simply simply different looking sock puppets with the same hands in control.

0

Gotta love Snopes' consistent attempts at apologetics.

@Jason421are you denying tht BLM are marxist revolutionaries with links to the weather group?

0
4

BLM is really about revolution not Black lives.
It is a Marxist organisation.
It is bout ending Capitalism and changing society nothing more.
Remember the Weather Underground Organisation, there is a big link there.

1

It's interesting that the article accuses the studies conclusion blaming the police on "This is a logical fallacy called post hoc, ergo propter hoc: Because one thing happened after another, the first thing caused the second"

While at the same time doing exactly the same about BLM and riots: because one thing (riots) happened after another (BLM Activism), the first thing (BLM Activism) caused the second (riots).

If the logical fallacy dismiss the conclusions of the very authors of the study, then clearly it that same logical fallacy dismisses the conclusions of the very authors of the article

You imply that the riots were not done by BLM members and sympathisers, as well as Antifa members and sympathisers?

@Hanno
I make no statement as to who did what when were or how. I wasn't there. I cannot comment and guess serve no purpose

I only state (not imply) that if a logical fallacy dismisses the role of the police in escalating protests to riots, then that same fallacy also dismisses the role of the BLM in doing the same.

@TheMiddleWay
I was not there either.
However there is a large volume of media showing that the riots and looters were done by the two groups I list above and therefore their is no need to use logical arguments to argue their involvement.
Now it is true that there may be some riots not done by them, however the evidence strongly suggest the majority of riots are caused by them.

However, to say that the police caused a renewed outbreak of rioting you do need to use logical arguments as there is no direct evidence for it.

You are trying to use logical arguments when it is not required in order to invalidate a logical argument where it is required.

Not being an expert in logic like you, I think it is called false equivalence.
You may correct me.

@Hanno

however the evidence strongly suggest the majority of riots are caused by them.

Evidence or media reporting?
If evidence, please provide the study or research that shows the majority of riots are caused by BLM.
If media reporting however, I think we can both admit that it is merely glorified and, certainly biased, guesswork.

However, to say that the police caused a renewed outbreak of rioting you do need to use logical arguments as there is no direct evidence for it.

That is exactly what the report (I should have been using report instead of study, sorry) quoted in the article concludes. Quote from the article:

>A report accompanying the data project, however, reads like an upscale attempt to blame the police for criminals’ decision to steal, kill, and destroy. Several times the report explicitly does so, such as here: “Although federal authorities were purportedly deployed to keep the peace, the move appears to have re-escalated tensions. Prior to the deployment, over 83% of demonstrations in Oregon were non-violent. Post-deployment, the percentage of violent demonstrations has risen from under 17% to over 42% (see graph below), suggesting that the federal response has only aggravated unrest.”

However, and this was my point, if we are to dismiss that report's logical arguments as post hoc, ergo propter hoc then so too must we discard the articles logical arguments as post hoc, ergo propter hoc because the evidence (or lack thereof) is the same for both

@TheMiddleWay
Sorry, the argument that the riots are not caused by BLM activism is so absurd that I cannot engage.

Obviously the thefts are Primarily opportunists however the attacks on police buildings, the arson Of public buildings and businesses, attacks on court houses and murder of police officers and the suspects arrested are all members of various BLM and Antifa movements... is so obvious, that denial of such shows a wilful ignorance that exceeds my willingness to engage.

The evidence or lack thereof are not nearly the same for both.

@Hanno

Sorry, the argument that the riots are not caused by BLM activism is so absurd that I cannot engage.

It's telling how you were willing to engage me until I asked you for evidence to support your idea

By the way, this is the Appeal to Incredulity: "Because a claim sounds unbelievable, it must not be true."

@Hanno

Obviously the thefts are Primarily opportunists however the attacks on police buildings, the arson Of public buildings and businesses, attacks on court houses and murder of police officers and the suspects arrested are all members of various BLM and Antifa movements... is so obvious, that denial of such shows a wilful ignorance that exceeds my willingness to engage.

Why is one obvious and the other not?
After all, a "BLM or ANTIFA" designation is not part of any arrest record that I'm aware of.
So while the media may label them as such, there is no evidence how many of those arrested where anarchists, opportunists, or otherwise wholly divorced from any BLM movement.

We don't know but our belief in light of absent evidence certainly does point to our confirmation bias, doesn't it? 😉

@TheMiddleWay
Lack of evidence?
The exact study group referred to by the article (ACLED).
That was the whole point of the article.
Lol!

Then:
Thousands of photographs.
Hundreds of videos and testimonies. Many taken by BLM members themselves.
Reporting on ALL news stations both left and right wing.
Arrest of hundreds of people who confess ties to BLM and Antifa.
Many of the riots occurred during BLM protests. Not seperate after fact that events.

Now compare the that to the evidence that police is the cause of the escalation.
You have a much better case to argue that maybe the police presence does have an effect on renewed violence.

Only school children would believe that the riots are not caused by BLM or, the wilfully ignorant.

@Hanno

Lack of evidence?
The exact study group referred to by the article (ACLED).
That was the whole point of the article.

A report which says, quote:

"“Although federal authorities were purportedly deployed to keep the peace, the move appears to have re-escalated tensions. Prior to the deployment, over 83% of demonstrations in Oregon were non-violent. Post-deployment, the percentage of violent demonstrations has risen from under 17% to over 42% (see graph below), suggesting that the federal response has only aggravated unrest.”"

The report blames the police.
The article denies the report by the post hoc, ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.

The article then goes on to blame BLM.
But that blame can also be denied by post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Hence the point of my original post.

@Hanno

Thousands of photographs.

Thousands?
Showing what?

>Hundreds of videos and testimonies. Many taken by BLM members themselves.

Hundreds?
Saying what?

I think you are engaging in hyperbole but if you really claim "thousands" and "hundreds", I'd like to have you show me thousands and hundreds in support that what you are saying is factual and not hyperbolic.

@Hanno

Now compare the that to the evidence that police is the cause of the escalation.

It's not thousands or hundreds; it's not hyperbolic. It's 184 out of 400 or nearly 46% of all videos reviewed.

ProPublica looked at nearly 400 social media posts showing police responses to protesters and found troubling conduct by officers in at least 184 of them. In 59 videos, pepper spray and tear gas were used improperly; in a dozen others, officers used batons to strike noncombative demonstrators; and in 87 videos, officers punched, pushed and kicked retreating protesters, including a few instances in which they used an arm or knee to exert pressure on a protester’s neck.
[1]

[projects.propublica.org]

[slug.com]

@TheMiddleWay
I was going to respond and then realised you are gaslighting me.

@Hanno
It is healthy to question the sanity of your views. That's not gaslighting (as there is no attempt on my part to gain power over you); that's just critical thinking.

@Lightman
Thanks. I'll certainly give that a look and post a response on that thread.

@TheMiddleWay
Pretending that things do not exists is not critical thinking... you are just lying.

Pretending that things don’t exist and then questioning the sanity of my views... is exactly gaslighting.

And you not trying to get power over me... we will wait and see about that.

@Hanno

I merely asked that if you claim thousands, can you show thousands.
And if you claim hundreds, can you show hundreds.

That is not my questioning your sanity; that is me questioning your claims.
But if someone questioning your claims makes you question your sanity... kiddo, that's not on me that's on you. 😟

@TheMiddleWay
Google it. There are thousands. Many have been removed however many remains.
Have you not watch any news channel at all the past months?
Just on YouTube there are hundreds. Just on this website dozens have been posted.

Your telling me you have not seen any of it? Completely missed the existence of Chaz etc...

You are not questioning the sanity of my claims because you have seen the photos and the videos and the reports.

You are pretending and I always wonder what why people pretend or lie about something.
In you case it is simple.

Similarly Wiley Ricky pretended that no one died during the riots. When I directed them to the reports and their names he started calling me names.
Do you also deny that people died during these riots?

@Hanno

Google it.

Not my claim to prove.
If you can't provide support for your claim, I'm not going to do it for you.

@Hanno

Do you also deny that people died during these riots?

No denial.
27 deaths.


Calvin Horton Jr. Shot on May 27 in Minneapolis. John Rieple, the owner of a pawnshop being targeted by looters, allegedly fired his shotgun at the group. It is not clear whether Horton was participating in the looting. Rieple has not been charged.

Chris Beaty. Shot on May 30 in Indianapolis. Beaty was shot by an unknown assailant in an attack that was linked to nearby protests, but it is not clear whether that was the case.

Dorian Murrell. Shot on May 30 in Indianapolis. Tyler Newby claims that he shot Murrell in self-defense after an altercation with a group of people near a protest. Newby has been charged with murder.

James Scurlock. Shot on May 30 in Omaha. Bar owner Jacob Gardner also claims to have been acting in self-defense when he shot Scurlock as looting was underway nearby. A nearby witness claims that he heard Gardner and Gardner’s father confronting people passing by using racially loaded and racist taunts. Gardner has not been charged.

Marvin Francois. Shot on May 31 in Kansas City, Mo. Francois was shot by an unknown assailant as he was picking up his son from a protest.

John Tiggs. Shot on May 31 in Chicago. Tiggs was shot by an unidentified assailant as he was entering a store which had been looted. Two people arrested shortly after Tiggs’s death were later released.

Myqwon Blanchard. Shot on May 31 in Riverside, Ill. Blanchard was shot by an unknown assailant in an incident apparently unrelated to protests.

David McAtee. Shot on June 1 in Louisville. McAtee, who ran a popular barbecue store, was shot and killed by members of the National Guard after he apparently fired at them with a handgun.

Italia Kelly. Shot on June 1 in Davenport, Iowa. Kelly was allegedly shot by Parker Belz, who Kelly’s family says had previously made threats against her and her sister. The shooting was apparently unrelated to a protest Kelly was attending. Belz has been charged with murder.

Marquis Tousant. Shot on June 1 in Davenport, Iowa. Tousant was shot by an unknown shooter near a protest.

Jorge Gomez. Shot on June 1 in Las Vegas. Police shot and killed Gomez after he allegedly aimed a firearm at them. Gomez’s family plans to file a federal lawsuit.

Jose Gutierrez. Shot on June 1 in Cicero, Ill. Zion Haygood allegedly was not aiming at Gutierrez when Gutierrez was struck and killed near an area where looting was underway. Haygood was charged with murder.

Victor Cazares Jr. Shot on June 1 in Cicero, Ill. Cazares was shot and killed by an unidentified gunman.

David Dorn. Shot on June 2 in St. Louis. Dorn, a retired police officer, was allegedly shot and killed by Stephan Cannon as Dorn was responding to an alarm at a friend’s business in an area where looting was happening. Cannon has been charged with murder.

Unknown. Shot on June 2 in Philadelphia. An unidentified man was shot and killed by Greg Isabella, the owner of a gun store that was being broken into during looting. Isabella has not been charged and police did not identify the man.

Sean Monterrosa. Shot on June 2 in Vallejo, Calif. Monterrosa was shot and killed by police after he was stopped near a protest. Monterrosa, who was kneeling at the time he was shot, was carrying a tool that an officer mistook for a gun. Monterrosa’s family has filed suit.

Javar Harrell. Shot on June 5 in Detroit. Harrell was allegedly shot and killed by Tyjon Hites in an incident apparently unrelated to ongoing protests. Hites has been charged with murder.

Robert Forbes. Run over on June 7 in Bakersfield, Calif. Forbes was struck by a vehicle and killed during a protest on a highway. The driver, Kieth Moore, was not charged.

Horace Anderson. Shot on June 20 in Seattle. Marcel Long allegedly shot and killed Anderson in the autonomous protest zone established in Seattle in June. Long has been charged with murder; the incident was apparently not connected to the protests.

Tyler Gerth. Shot on June 27 in Louisville. Gerth was allegedly shot and killed by Steven Nelson Lopez during a protest focused on the killing of Breonna Taylor by Louisville police. The shooting occurred during a protest but was reportedly a function of Lopez’s mental illness. Lopez was charged with murder.

Antonio Mays Jr. Shot on June 29 in Seattle. Mays was shot by an unknown shooter in the Seattle autonomous zone. Videos later suggested that people at the scene removed evidence before police arrived.

Summer Taylor. Run over on July 3 in Seattle. Taylor was struck and killed by a car driven by Dawit Kelete. Kelete was charged with vehicular homicide, though the incident appears to have been an accident.

Secoriea Turner. Shot on July 4 in Atlanta. Turner, an 8-year-old girl, was killed when a vehicle in which she was riding was fired upon by a group of people who had set up a roadblock near the site of an earlier police shooting. Julian Conley was charged with murder but maintains his innocence.

Garrett Foster. Shot on July 25 in Austin. Foster was shot and killed by Daniel Perry, an Army sergeant. Perry alleges that he only fired at Foster, who was also armed, in self-defense. Witnesses at the scene question Perry’s account and, when Trump in June tweeted a muted threat against potential protesters at his rally in Tulsa, Perry replied, “Send them to Texas we will show them why we say don’t mess with Texas.” Perry has not been arrested.

@Hanno
Geez. You really have patience with this “middleway” ...
a guy who specifically states “Setting Up Shop In Your Head” on his bio page ...
Not to mention seeming to be into extremely high end navel gazing (alleged education, career and interests)

He’s obviously the kind of guy that, if you state a coin is flat, he’ll state its round ... or go off on the fact its not truly flat because the designs impressed on it are layers of molecular structure that prohibit it from ... in fact, based on the entire item being composed of a molecular matrix, there is no dimension at all where it can be truly defined as “flat” (which is simply a deceptively descriptive construct in itselfj

I applaud your tenacity trying to debate with this guy but really ...

It is reminiscent of the reports that have come forward where “high end religious philosophers” would engage in vociferous debate over such heady topics as;
HOW MANY ANGELS CAN FIT ON THE TOP OF A PIN?

@Bay0Wulf
Great minds discuss ideas;
average minds discuss events;
small minds discuss people.

Hanno has a great mind because he is willing to discuss ideas with me.
He doesn't have a small mind because he isn't making commentary about me.

@Bay0Wulf
Haha... you should have seen me debate fundamental religious people and Holocaust haters...

My problem is that I am open to all ideas and evaluate everything. I do learn lots of things on the way. It is not impossible that I will learn some stuff from the school teacher here.
I did learn a lot from Wiley Ricky for example. Just not the stuff he wanted me to learn... lol!

@Hanno
I will sometimes engage ... in a somewhat more limited manner ... and I use the same ... excuses for my behavior.

I note that some people enjoy fishing ... even odder ... ice fishing ... I get impatient if I’m not reeling in a fish every few minutes.

As WRW ... I debated with him for about a week before I simply got bored of his crap. However, that was long ago when IDW was first getting going and I didn’t know how to spot those people.

For some reason I thought most people were in earnest ... I dunno ... what was I thinking because I was already aware that was an unrealistic thought process ... for over 30+ years.

@TheMiddleWay
Its okay ...
You go ahead and “Set Up Shop In Peoples’ Heads”

And try to yammer at me about your philosophical “High Ground”.
Perhaps someday you’ll drop your line of “Baffling Folks with Bullshit” and learn to talk/write with honest intent to communicate and ... then you might be wort reading.

I’ll keep an eye out for ya ...

0

The WSJ reported over the weekend that there were approximately 10,000 demonstrations between May and September, but that “only” seven percent of them turned violent. So in 120 days we saw 700 riots across the country (in fairness most in Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, etc.). The WSJ also reported that the rioting in Kenosha had cost the community “tens of millions of dollars.” The same article asserted that the BLM demonstrations are not “inherently” violent. Now I’m wondering who the hell is in charge at the WSJ.

2

Claims to insurance companies have reached a billion in damages. Our rates will definitely go up.

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